Horrible parents (long)

[RubbishMantra]

Ok, so my dad's not well. It's changed him a lot in the past few years, but he's always been very controlling.

My mother has always been pretty unpleasant, liking us as babies, but as we began to develop our own personalities and views, she went off us. They liked (and still do) to play favourites.

A couple of years ago they cut one of my sisters out their lives, and out of their will. They've decided they like her again, and have cut my other sister off. My father rang me up to tell me about this. I told him, in a measured way, that I think that's out of order, and to think about what he's doing. He responded like a petulant child, and put the phone down. I always used to be the one who nodded and smiled to keep them off my back.

Both of my siblings were cut off at different times. this was after they'd travelled abroad to see the parents, due to worry about father's ill health. My father has said at different times they're after his money.

I'm in the process of selling a property abroad for them, my father's too ill and she's never had to do anything for herself, so I have to keep some contact until it's sold.

I haven't been well for a couple of months (going through barrage of tests). They know this, but the only time it's been acknowledged is to say "You'll feel better soon, when the weather gets warmer.", even after i sent a pleading email asking them do they care at all.

I suppose what I'm asking is, until I can go no contact, how do I detach? I keep checking my emails in the hope their might be something caring from them.

Sorry if rambly.

Sorry you are having such a rotten time, I can understand that at a point you are feeling particularly low you need their support. However going on their past behavior it is unlikely that you are ever going to get what you need from them

Do you have other support?

It's hard but you are only hoping to keep getting hurt if you keep reaching out to them , so don't. Have you ever spoken to anyone about the situation?

Thank you for replying Christina.

Before I got poorly, I was doing a psychotherapy degree. Intensive psychotherapy is part of the course. I spent nearly all of my sessions talking about my situation with them. Just seemed to go round and round in circles though.

It was just when my father rang me up a couple of weeks ago to say he was cutting another sister off. My response was well you've done that to one of your daughters already. his response; "0h, I like her now."

You know it's a bizarre situation, you can still have contact with them , but I doubt if they are going to be the parents you are lookin for

How do your sisters feel?

They play favourites with us.

Us sisters never had much of a close relationship because of that, but my eldest sister and i are beginning to form a lovely and supportive relationship.

I just need to work out a way to deal with the parentals until I've dealt with their property.

How to detach? I think acting like an outside observer can help you to detach from toxic people.

When you interact, imagine you are a researcher, view their behaviour, their responses in that light. Make every move of your own a little test to understand their behaviour, try to exclude your emotion for a while.

I still see my toxic parents, mainly bcs they're very old ( or am I kidding myself. I probably am). In my situation, I am waiting for one of them to die, which is likely to be my mother.

They are such a headfuck but - and I don't really know how this happened - I am detached from their insanity. I'm trying to work this out as I type, how this has happened... The overriding difference is that I say my piece. I say very difficult things completely unemotionally. I actually feel unemotional - its my time to say what has hitherto been unsayable.

I think what has changed is that they no longer hold anything I want. I have given up all hopes of love, nurture etc, I approach conversations with forensic detail, completely not responding to the array of manipulations (many). I wonder if I'm going to suffer for this, if I'm ignoring my psychological health on some level. But at the moment it feels good to say my piece at last. They try to punish me for it but I have to say its like water off a ducks back. My mother recently said something so outrageous about something deeply painful to me. At the time I said 'well, that's hurtful!' But later, driving home, I laughed. It was a comically bad thing to say.

Can you identify what they hold that you want. If its money then, really, you have to let that go - its the price of your mental health (which is priceless).

Sorry that was rambly. Its difficult to put into words and I'm typing on a ridiculous tablet, almost impossible to edit.

I'm not sure if what I've said is much use. I speak to them in statements when it matters, batting away the myriad manipulations by rarely addressing them or even responding, just ploughing on, after a 'respectful pause' after one of their manipulative displays, with what I want to say. I do think it's one of those fake it till you make it scenarios.

If it were me I wouldn't bother dealing with their property, it's their issue and they don't seem bothered about your issues. I think the only way they will care about your health is if it affects them. So tell them you're not feeling well enough to deal with it. Let them pass it on to someone else.

Thanks Springy, I think I'm just at the precipice of where you are. I thought I was actually was in that place already. But it was the upsetting phone call from my father being horrible about my eldest sister that made me realise that I'm not. I told him, you can't play favourites with your children like that. It's the first time I've properly stood up to him in my life, and I firmly stayed in adult while he went into petulant child.

What do I want from them? To show some care. I truly don't care about their money, otherwise I wouldn't have spoken out like I did. I've never been materialistic. But the thing is, money's very important to them, so they think we're all the same. That was one of the things that really angered me actually, he said my sister had probably only gone to see him because she was "after money". She went to see him because he's unwell, something I can't bring myself to do because of my mother's constant criticism freaks me out. (whole other story)

It's likely they'll cut me off now (blessed relief), it's just how to deal with them until I've disposed of this bloody property. And you're right Elli, I should let them deal with it. I keep telling them I'm not well enough, but they just conveniently ignore that.

How do my sisters feel Christina?

My eldest sister is very hurt from their recent behaviour towards her. Until then, she was very forgiving. But she seems to be detaching now. They were vile to her on her last visit. They just criticise until you snap. But don't see anything wrong with it, because we're their daughters. Extensions of them, not people in our own right.

My middle sister is elated that they're talking to her again. After throwing her out of their property abroad 2 years ago. After she rushed over there to look after my father when he had a fall.

Interestingly, none of decided to become mothers.

none of us*

Melon, I do try to view my mother as a case study. I think she'd make a very interesting one.

It's only since I became poorly that I got sucked in emotionally again.

I am NC with my siblings, so perhaps that makes it more cut and dried? I am mindful that I'm on display, almost on stage - whatever I say will be viciously criticised anyway, so I say what I want to say for myself . I almost craft sentences, these days on the hop. All I do and say is like being in a courtroom. So I don't lose my temper - or, if I feel I'm getting even vaguely emotional I make an excuse and leave/go to the loo/get out the room/cut the call with a lie - I can't afford to give them that leverage.

eg in a recent conversation my dad said something like "my children" say this and that, meaning the others, who are of a one making serious allegations about me (yawn). So I said 'my children? I am one of your children, what do you mean?' I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere with him, particularly, but I needed to say it: I am one of his children, not an interloper. It goes nowhere but I feel good, I get to say what I want to say. I go over it afterwards and I am satisfied I said what I wanted to say. It is very affirming.

This is significant for me because the history is that I have been silenced. If I spoke - about anything! - they (all) rounded on me like a pack of wolves and I couldn't cope with it, I was devastated. These days I can, or do!, cope with it.

What Melon says is good advice. Imagine you're a journalist/researcher.

I'm sorry I'm posting so much.

You said to him 'you can't play favourites with your children like that ' and the 'like that' was emotional, an appeal. There is NO POINT appealing to people like this: they are never going to get it. They're almost special needs.

I have had a lot of therapy and have also attended various support groups (survivors of dysfunctional families) and one analogy has been helpful for me: imagine beating on a shut door until your hands are bloodied. You can see the light beneath that indicates someone is in but no amount of pleading, tears, anger, bargaining is going to get them to open the door. This is a brilliant picture for me: I won't (ever again) get my hands bloodied on a door that isn't going to open.

It may be good for you siblings to get together to support one another (though, sorry to say, don't assume you will all want to tackle this effectively). You'll have to get genned up on this dynamic so you know what you're dealing with. Is it Susan Forward who has written the book 'Toxic Parents'?

Toxic Parents

Hi, it seems like you and I have alot in common. I stumbled upon 'Narcissistic Mothers' on the internet & it completely explained what ive suffered over the years. Four years ago my parents made myself, my husband and our three boys homeless

'Interestingly, none of decided to become mothers'

Same here - its a door I just can't bear to open.

My parents are similar to yours in many ways. I cannot explain how much psychotherapy has helped me and I'm so glad that its a path you're pursuing as well. It takes time though and has involved a huge amount of deep, painful grieving for the relationship I thought I had with my parents (loving, caring, supportive etc). And I find its not a straight path either where you keep feeling better and better and better - I spent about 2 years deep in grief, horribly depressed, anxious, utterly furious at everyone and everything. For the past 6 months or so, things have been much better- I still have very tough days where I'm heartbroken and anxious and very wobbly, but the days were I feel better are much more frequent. I just care a lot less about what my parents think of me, and what they expect from me. Stuff that used to terrify me just doesn't matter very much any more. And I feel a very deep sense of peace and contentment on the good days.

Go easy on yourself. You do not have to do what your parents expect of you. You have a right to expect some care and thought and affection and respect from them. Being family does not give you a free pass to act like an asshole without any consequences. Good luck and keep posting x

You have a right to expect care and thought and affection but you're very probably not going to get it from your parents.

It helps me to steady myself about future 'disappointments' eg I'm currently not well and it is likely I will have to have surgery. I've gone over it in my head: they won't come to the hospital [would I want them there anyway?], they won't send me a card/flowers, they may call but it will probably be to tell me I deserve my illness. Etc. If I do get anything I am pleasantly surprised - but I know it doesn't mean things have changed.

Totally agree springydaffs - OP is highly unlikely to get any respect or affection from her parents, I just didn't want her thinking that she was being unreasonable by feeling as she does about her parents' behaviour

It's so bloody exhausting all this stuff. You need to do so much planning, thinking ahead, anticipating the crap, steeling yourself for what might happen, convincing yourself that it will all be ok. I do often feel jealous of people with 'normal' families where everyone just rubs along together fairly ok most of the time.

In practical tips, I think melonballers is right. View them as not part of yourself. Think of them as strangers, if that helps. Also playing Toxic Bingo can help - make a list of the hurtful things they are likely to say and then when they actually say them, tick them off.

As you're clearly aware, you also need to face your own self and need for loving parents. You have to face that pain before you can admit that the parents you have will never be a true mother and father to you. It hurts like holy hell because the instinct is so deep that if we are 'good enough' they will love us unconditionally.

It's an illusion.

Writing down the time line of what's happened when and what they have said and done can also help a great deal. It puts things in context. For even better context then write a list of the good aspects. Seeing the whole picture helps more than just looking at the bad stuff actually.

Thank you everybody for your replies.

Springy, the beating on the door with a crack of light showing through underneath explains it perfectly. I'll keep that image. See, I am just beginning to speak up for myself, but haven't quite learnt to do it in a matter of fact enough way yet. And i had a wry smile at them most likely telling you that your illness is deserved, because I imagined my parents saying the same thing if they acknowledge my illness. Hope you're well soon. x Oh, I have a copy of Toxic Parents, but I've been too scared to read it!

Mummy, that's awful. I had a look at Narcissistic Mothers and it read very familiar.

Lotta, the way you felt for those 2 years is how I'm feeling at the moment. I think it's because I always knew my mother never really liked me, but put my father on a bit of a pedestal. I've now realised he doesn't much care for me either. I didn't dare have children because I had no clue how to be a loving mum.

I remember getting really freaked out on my wedding day, because she rang me up in tears telling me how much she loved me, it felt just yeuch.

OP, hang in there. It gets better - it honestly does, I absolutely swear. I was in a dreadful state - had to kick my own butt every day to force myself to go to work, was on ADs for 6 months, had thoughts of self-harming, panic attacks. It was terrifying. Its only now that I can look back and see that it was grief, and lifting the lid off a long-sealed box of rage and anger that I had never been allowed to express or even acknowledge.

What would you say to a friend who had tragically lost both parents at once, in a car crash for example? Would you expect them to be functioning normally any time soon? Would you expect the grief to be overwhelming, for it to take a very long time to subside? Would you carry on treating them kindly and making allowances and being gentle with them for as long as they needed? You need to do the same with yourself and it sounds like you are making great progress.

I also relate to your feeling of 'yeuch'. I started feeling the same every time my mother gave me a hug or kiss or was in any way affectionate, probably since my teens. Something just felt very wrong and off about it. I blamed myself for years and years and wrote myself off as a cruel freak with a heart of stone. But I don't have that feeling with my partner or my friends. It wasn't me at all, it was her. Trust that feeling - its your gut instinct and its there to protect you.

Oh and 'Toxic Parents' is wonderful. It freaked me out a bit how accurate it was in parts! I remember a huge feeling of relief that the way my parents behaved was actually 'a thing' that other people experienced too.

And the nice thing about a book is that you can put it down if it gets a bit too much, and pick it up again when you're ready.

Meerka, I've done similar with Erikson's stages of development, and the sadness I felt when I saw all the negative stuff until I learnt to break away from them. I left home at 16, yet they still managed to loom over me. I will do the timeline. You're right, it will put everything into perspective.

She actually photoshops photographs of me, to make me look slimmer, right hair colour etc. Or if she really hates them, just deletes them, saying "it doesn't look like you." Meaning I don't look how she wants me to look I suppose.

The only time she liked my appearance was when I was painfully thin due to illness. She said "My beautiful model daughter"