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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Please Help

115 replies

LyingDP · 10/05/2015 18:08

I've NC'd but am a regular poster here, and have started a good few lighthearted pointless threads, I'm afraid this one is decidedly more serious. Sad It is long but I don't want to dripfeed.
I will try and keep this as brief as possible, thank you to anyone who replies - I really need some advice.
I have been with my DP for four years. He is the kindest, funniest man I know and my soulmate.
About 6 months into the relationship, I found some pretty flirty messages between him and a woman at work. I told him to stop, that it was disrepectful. He promised he would.
About another 6 months after that I found some more (to the same woman) and hit the roof. He said he would never do it again and just felt bad for her because her DH had recently died, but that he would stop.
About a year after that I found the same sort of messages to the same woman. I was devastated, I left him, lived at a friends,he was inconsolable. We worked through it and he has not (to my knowledge) text her again. Let me be clear - They were not 'Oh my god they are fucking' messages, more silly, flity ones. Stuff like 'Do you want soup?It's upstairs' - 'Only if it's as hot as you' 'I've got new uniform' 'Oh I've always liked a woman in uniform'
God reading that back it's so shit.
He changed the settings on his phone so all messages immeadiatley came through to the ipad I own, let me go through his phone if I wanted to, etc etc, and was by all accounts determined to show me he wouldn't do it again.
Anyway, we got through it - Been together about two and a half years at thsi point.
About a year ago, almost to the day, I found a weird blue pack of pills in his bag. They were open and a few had been taken. He at first said they were nothing, just headache pills. I didn't believe him so looked up the name of them. Obviously it was viagra.
I confronted him and he 'came clean' and said they were for his boss (He part owns a garage with him and tbf they are very close)
After I asked why the hell he would pop a few out of the packet and give them to him just in his hand, then keep the half empty pack himself, he said it was because his boss didn't want his wife finding the pack and he would pop them just as he got home. Confused
After I pointed out that it really wasn't a big deal, that ED is really quite common, he said that this boss was too embarassed to go to the doctors.
I told him I wasn't happy with him getting them for him (He said he got them from a bloke at work) and he agreed he would stop. A few months later I found the same blue pack in his bag again. I again told him this was dodgy as fuck and to stop. He apologised again, was really upset and said he would tell his boss he couldn't get them for him anymore. When he came back from work that day, unprompted, he said: 'I've told * I can't get him his pills anymore as it's causing me and LyingDP some problems' He said his boss was fine with this and that was that.
A few months later I was in our house at the top window when he pulled up outside. I saw him sitting in his van, take something from his bag and put it behind the visor. He came in and I made some excuse to go outside. They were viagras. It came out that (of course) they were for him and he had just been too ashamed to tell me. He was bawling his eyes out.
I pointed out to him that, having seen my calm and reasoned reaction whe I thought his boss was taking them (nothing to be ashamed of etc), he had no reason to keep this from me.
We have a very open and honest relationship, our sex life was fine. He said a few times he hadn't managed to get it up and he was embarrased.
I am 10 years younger than him and he said he felt ashamed. (I should point out at this point he was drinking about 2-3 cans a night)
We went to counselling. He stopped his drinking. We cried and he said he doesn't know why he lies, just that he doesn't think. I don't think it's malicous. I think he genuinely is a people pleaser and doesn't think of the conesequences.
As part of the counselling, he wrote a kind of 'pledge' that said:
I promise to be truthful and honest with LyingDP, that I will not lie, No matter how big or small and signed and dated it. He carries it around with him in his wallet.
I made it very clear throughout all of this that were it to transpire that he'd lied to me again, no matter how big or small, I had no choice but to leave him. He agreed.
That was a year ago.
We muddled through and I can honestly say we are the best we've ever been, and I have been the happiest and safest I've ever felt.
Cut to today and I don't know what to do.
A week ago we went to a restaurant for our anniversary. He said £40 was through tips at work that he was putting towards it.
I had a pushbike that he kept at his work that he bought for me about two years ago. I don't use it.
My sister (who's DH works with him) mentioned 'Oh, my DH says you've sold your bike?'
So I asked my DP about it today, expecting him to say he hadn't and it was crossed wires.
He'd sold my bike, and, so he said, had used the £30 (???It was a nice bike) to go towards our date night.
He told me he had got all that money from tips. He said nothing about selling my bike or getting the money from it. I don't know how he was going to wriggle out of it when I inevitably asked for my bike.
Had he of asked me if he could sell my bike, I would have said yes. He knows this.
He lied again.
Please help me. I know all on paper this looks awful and I have no doubt what many will be thinking. Imagining my life without him brings me to sobs. I don't know where to start.
If I don't leave it will be succumbing to a relationship where, at a rate of approx one a year, i will be deceived, whether big or small.
I don't have a choice, do I??

OP posts:
LyingDP · 10/05/2015 21:39

cheers Yes, surely the point of an affair is that it's sexy and hot and new - doubtful you would need it for that.
I honestly have never truly thought he was having an affair.
My OP looks horrifying written all down like that. It's the first time I've seen it all in one go.
But it's been bearable because what people need to remember is this was spread over 4 years. Every incident was wormed out of. Every episode worked through.
But it's cumulative. And sooner or later I will leave him, I know this. It will only get harder.
The thought fills me with fear and sadness. I used to be so strong. Sad

OP posts:
akaWisey · 11/05/2015 08:25

I've been there too Lying. I remember how trapped I felt - huge mortgage, young DD...our lives were so tightly intertwined it felt like I had to keep on going and trying to get him to change. But he couldn't, and the marriage failed in the end.

I think the worst thing about it all was this: ultimately HE couldn't live with the web of deceit he'd created and it was HIM who had decided it had to end - sadly he couldn't even do that with any honesty or integrity.

So think carefully - dishonesty over time and across contexts is a marker of someone who hasn't matured psychologically. I paid a high price for thinking otherwise and I'd hate to think of anyone else doing the same. Good luck.

LyingDP · 11/05/2015 08:31

Thank you Wisey. You are very right about the lives being intertwined.
I just woke up to this text from him;

'I'm not letting this happen, what about all our good times? Our plans? Our future? Yes I've fucked up 7 times but what about the thousand things I've done good? We are great together simple as that '

What can I even say to that??? He doesn't get it at all!!!

OP posts:
Optimist1 · 11/05/2015 08:41

You're right, OP, he just doesn't get it. His text implies that as long as the good things he's done outnumber the bad things then you're on a winner. Hmmm ...

Cherryapple1 · 11/05/2015 08:44

Don't reply. And it isn't just up to him is it? If you don't want to be with him then just don't, no matter what the reasons are. He shouldn't have fucked up once, let alone 7 times. What an utter joke.

LIZS · 11/05/2015 08:48

7 times ? It isn't a case of 9 lives. Those are just the times he has been caught out.

LyingDP · 11/05/2015 09:10

Yep.
I've got the answers. It's just whether I can hold onto those answers when he inevitably bombards me with guilt, anger, tears, remorse.
dons helmet

OP posts:
CharlotteCollins · 11/05/2015 09:11

So he agreed last year that you'd have to leave if he did it again. He even purported to take it seriously enough to sign a vote and keep it in his wallet.

It's s bit late for him to act like this is overreaction, then, isn't it?

Cherryapple1 · 11/05/2015 09:13

whatever he says or does not will not change his previous behaviour will it. Who cares abut his crocodile tears. Keep strong and ignore, disengage.

Rozalia · 11/05/2015 09:19

I'm divorcing my H of nearly 20 years. Lots of problems but dishonesty was a big one. Not long before he moved out he said he'd told me so many lies he didn't know what the truth was himself.

Living with someone who habitually lies means you are never standing on solid ground, so to speak. You never really know the reality, of anything, in the end. You are constantly mentally second guessing everything the liar says and does.

It destroys your trust in anyone.

It means the liar controls the flow of information, your perception of reality.

I thought I wouldn't be able to live without him, but the relief of not having to deal with his Fuckwittery is incredible. It's freed up so much of my mental energy for worthwhile things.

He is seriously struggling, but actions have consequences. If you don't show your partner love and respect, and a liar is doing neither of those, you destroy the relationship.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 11/05/2015 09:27

Yes what about your plans? He fucked them up by lying. And no, he really doesn't get it. You don't get points for not lying to your partner which you get to redeem on lies when you feel like it. Every day that he didn't lie was not an achievement, something special, it was the baseline for a normal relationship.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 11/05/2015 09:27

Oh and 7 lies? No, 7 lies you found out about. Obviously there are many many more.

Patchworkpatty · 11/05/2015 09:33

it all depends on how this behaviour makes you feel and if you can live with it . my db does this. he is a people pleaser and tells silly lies to make things 'better' especially to his dw. this is exactly the sort of stunt he would play. You want to go out on a date night. He doesn't want to disappoint you and say 'sorry I don't think we can afford that ' instead he sells the bike you don't use because to tell you, would show how broke he was and you wouldn't want to go. He is a people pleaser, his lies will almost always be non- malicious and his eyes to make you happy/loved - not worried. the viagra was probably because he is a) embarrassed and b) didn't want you upset thinking he couldn't get it up because you didn't turn him on enough.. - when in fact it is mostly simple mechanics. So you have a decision to make, for you , is the happiness he gives you greater than the upset of the pointless lies (in which case do some research on people pleasers together and try and get a referral to a psychologist) or no, it really isn't something you can live with. my dsil decided the former and they are very happy, but it's not for everyone, she takes the view that no one is perfect and to dump a happy loving relationship which in all other ways she is content with would be daft. That said, not sure if I could .

LyingDP · 11/05/2015 10:18

patchwork That is the nail right on the head. I am reading these out to my DM and we are very grateful for all the support. She is very happy not one person has justified his behaviour.
The issue is it's not one 'type' of lie. It's not like he's cheated once, and we can have a very clear focused plan to get through.
They have spanned genres, categories and years.

OP posts:
Miele72 · 11/05/2015 11:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LyingDP · 11/05/2015 22:12

I have planned to stay at friends for a few weeks to get myself together until I find a more permanent solution.
He has been texting almost constantly, it hurts me so much knowing how much he's hurting. It's breaking my heart and if anything makes me go back it will be this, the thought of him being so upset.

OP posts:
kittensinmydinner · 11/05/2015 22:27

Sorry you are feeling so low. I am of the opinion that if MOST of it is really good, then stay. We are none of us perfect. Does he love you with all his heart ? Do you believe this most fundamental 'truth' or do you think that is also a lie. ? Are the lies mostly stupid things that are meant to make him look in a better light to you or are they so bad that they affect YOUR life/work/wellbeing. Is there a malicious intent to the lies (an intention to hurt you) . If the answer is no, then it sounds like a serious self esteem issue (why does he need to make himself appear better/richer/more sexually able than he really is ? ) I am going to go against the grain here and say give him another chance if you believe most to be true, but he has to get some serious psychiatric help, this cannot be sorted out with a bit of namby pamby counselling at your local relate service, it will require some hard work from both of you to look into why he behaves like this, what has triggered it and hopefully how to stop it. Good luck.

LyingDP · 11/05/2015 22:36

Kittens
The problem, I suppose, is the pointlessness of the last lie. The others kind of made sense at least.
I would not have been upset were he to sell my bike. So it wasn't to protect me. If he needed the money he could have just as easily sold something of his, or asked me.
I do agree, you have a point.
But I can't help thinking if I stay I will just start bit by bit justify each lie: 'He was trying to protect me' 'He's embarrassed' 'Um.....He wanted £30'
It's a slippery slope and one i am already sliding down.
But yes, I do believe he loves me very very much Sad

OP posts:
LyingDP · 11/05/2015 22:40

FWIW, it transpires that he may well have sold my bike through a friend through an FB Selling site for £80. Not £30.
Whether that's true or not, I think he probably really needed the money. And that is leading me to think there is more I don't know.

OP posts:
GiddyOnZackHunt · 11/05/2015 23:37

Oh Lying I suspect there's a whole lot more too. And never will. You can make a thousand excuses but he can lie 1001 times too. You'll never know. I dread to think about the lies my xh might have told me that I never discovered. But I walked away anyway. You don't know he's heartbroken. You're getting the texts saying he is but take everything with a pinch of salt.
If you were married with DC and a long history of truthfulness then maybe kittens POV would be worth considering but you have no reason to persevere with him other than illusion and hope. If lying were drugs would you keep believing after so many deceptions?

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 12/05/2015 00:12

Lying, all this time he's texting and wailing at you is time he's trying to dig his nails into you instead of actually thinking about what he's done. You deserve some peace and quiet and a break from him during this break, or it is no break at all. Tell him to show you the respect of not contacting you for X days and see if he ever gets it at all.

LyingDP · 12/05/2015 00:45

Very very true.
if lying were drugs would you go back
No. I suppose the difficulty though is that taking drugs is quite clearly a very selfish act, whereas he will justify his lies as somehow 'for me'.
But that helps a lot to think of it like that - as an addiction and one that only he can cure.
trying to dig his nails into you instead of actually thinking about what he's done
Again, very true. He may be feeling distraught. He may not. But that's not reflecting, is it? That's not being introspective and trying to change.
He's just fucking upset because he's been caught again.
I am going back home tomorrow, staying at my Dsis until Saturday where I will get the rest of my stuff and move to my friends.
He is barraging me asking to speak with me. I fear if I don't he won't stop texting (I've not replied since yesterday morning)
Shall I organise at the end of this week somewhere mutual to meet up, with a very clear time frame for it to be finished by (prob no more than an hour) and that way he cannot say he needs to speak to me anymore.
My DM suggested this. But also said I should have someone to come with me just to sit away not involved but just to make sure I don't go over the time/go home with him etc. ??

OP posts:
whitsernam · 12/05/2015 01:39

For what its worth, I don't think you have to meet up with him to talk, or respond at all. You can go totally silent, or tell him you want a month of no correspondence, or whatever you want to do. You can block him completely. It's up to you. But I really really hate lying; had a boyfriend who did it to me too many times. If you're done, you're done and there is not much else to say.

AnyFucker · 12/05/2015 06:11

You don't have to do anything you want to do

he is the the one that owes you some consideration now and he should stop whining and start thinking if there is any way he can possibly put this right

the time for "talking" is long passed

AnyFucker · 12/05/2015 06:11

don't want to do

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