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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

porn - is there 'normal' usage levels

101 replies

kate00001 · 25/04/2015 16:46

I've been with my H for 20 years. We have DCs. Last year before fathers day I looked at his Google search history to buy him a part for his specialist hobby as a surprise. And there it was, he looks at a certain type of porn - up to several times per day. A type that is not like me or our relationship. Always the same type. I can't help but check now. For the past year it's always 1-2 times per day. Occasionally more. Our relationship isn't good and hasn't been for a while. We still have sex but only 1 - 2 times per week. Am I just a 'image' that he wants to keep up? Is the porn what he really wants or are fantasies just that and not what you want in real life?

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 27/04/2015 19:27

Not all porn is 'wrong'. There's nothing at all inherently wrong with liking to watch depictions of sexual activity. Some (not all) people are a lot more interested in both having sex and watching others have it, than others are, and sexually explicit entertainment material has been around forever.
Yes, there are a lot of problems with the porn industry as it is today: predominantly the exploitation and mistreatment of some performers. There is, also (and this needs constant repetition) a growing movement of people making 'ethical' porn, with well-treated, properly-paid performers and (in some cases) carrying messages about sexual diversity and/or the presentation of a range of 'realistic' body types as desirable.

Though that's not really got much to do with the OP's circumstances.
Sometimes, watching a lot of porn of a specific type is because the watcher has (and probably always had) a specific fetish, which a partner is unwilling or unable to fulfill. Again, this isn't inherently wrong - it depends what the fetish is. People are still, mostly, socialised to regard longterm heterosexual monogamy as the most desirable model for relationships, which means that people who don't actually want that sort of a relationship may engage in one due to social pressure, and look at porn/read erotic literature/browse dating sites (without actually registering or contacting anyone) as an outlet.

newnamesamegame · 27/04/2015 19:55

SolidGoldBrass this is a really interesting point you've raised, about the fetish or specific need which the long-term partner isn't able or willing to fulfil. I don't have a problem with this per se, and in fact in some relationships it probably fulfils an important need.

The problem comes when "fantasy" (or the outlet sought in the porn) starts to creep into and dominate the regular relationship. When I initially discovered my H's porn use it was dismissed on his part and largely accepted on mine on the grounds that it was "fantasy" and bore no relationship to our marriage. I was pretty chilled out about it for a while.

Until he started asking me to do things he'd seen in porn and when I made it clear I wasn't interested, he would basically accuse me of pretending not to like them in order to spite him. He really struggled to accept that not everyone shares these fantasies (nothing really dark, just a lot of double penetration/anal etc). He would constantly ask me to do things in the middle of intercourse and when I said "no I don't want to," he would say "you love it really, etc." He wasn't coercive or bullying about it. He just never accepted that I wasn't just being a pain in the arse to him just for the sake of it. And I started to resent him for not being able to take what I said at face value.

I wouldn't really even have had a problem with him getting off on this on his own. But I got to feel as if I was hindering his enjoyment of our relationship because I wasn't prepared to try any of this. A lot of that was down to his being a selfish sod who wanted what he wanted. But a fair chunk of it was that he had been so brainwashed by this stuff into thinking that that's what women want that he couldn't come to terms with the fact that I really genuinely didn't.

That's my problem with porn. I realise a lot of people are strong-willed and mature enough to realise that it isn't what everyone wants. But there are a surprising number of people out there (mainly, but not exclusively, men) who think this is what the pinnacle of sexual enjoyment is.

AnyFucker · 27/04/2015 20:09

Lovey, you say your H isn't/wasn't "coercive"

What you have described in your last post is the very definition of coercion. It's not all "if you don't do this I will leave you/thump you"

newnamesamegame · 27/04/2015 20:40

AF I accept that it became a sort of emotional coercion towards the end. And was a big factor in my asking him to leave. I meant that there was no physical coercion.

At any rate it was pretty unpleasant.

AnyFucker · 27/04/2015 20:58

Indeed. Sorry to pick you up on that point, but I think it is important to name what he did as coercion. Emotional blackmail is just as damaging as physical threats. But you know this Thanks

SolidGoldBrass · 27/04/2015 21:58

Well, your H was a selfish dick,no doubt about that. But it wouldn't have been just porn which made him mistreat you the way he did. As with any type of abusive man, his behaviour would have started with the idea that you, as a woman rather than a person ie someone with a penis, existed more for his benefit than your own. Some abusive men bully their wives over cooking - and will insist that real women are both good at cooking and genuinely love doing it - for instance, but no one blames Masterchef.

Oneeyedbloke · 27/04/2015 22:38

I think newname's and LastTango’s stories are really significant. Imho the change in attitude towards masturbation that we’ve seen from the 1960s and 70s onwards has been a good thing - and surely a particularly good thing for women? Not only has the idea that it is ‘self abuse’ or, worse, harmful - for both sexes - pretty much died out, I can’t help feeling that blokes going around full of sexual tension but refusing to wank on the grounds that it was wrong or sinful, must’ve put a lot of pressure on women in times gone by.

So, to the extent that porn facilitates the ‘letting off of steam’, I’m all for it. But the production of porn raises all sorts of issues of consent & human rights. And the consumption of porn in industrial quantities raises issues of psychological health. Put simply, does no-one have an imagination left? In my boyhood, porn was unavailable, so I would simply picture sexy happenings to turn myself on, and I still do. Yes, i’ve ‘used’ porn - the curiosity factor is irresistible - but I must say, after the initial amazement factor wears off, lots of it can seem rather lacklustre and VERY repetitive. The actors pull the most cliched faces, make the same old sounds and supposedly ‘sexy’ moves and give the camera the same old come-hither looks, gah.

Sure, husbands and boyfriends wish their wives and girlfriends would do x, y or z in bed - I’m not excluding myself from that. But men have to try harder not to reduce sex to a series of moves, techniques or ‘favours', not least because it’s not usually the way their partners want to conduct things sexually. I think fantasy is a great way to vary sex, to keep it new and exciting - and I’m far from saying that porn can’t play a part in that. But, as others have said, you have to look carefully if you don’t want to trawl through a ton of frankly dispiriting stuff.

As far as the OP’s problem is concerned, her OH does sound pretty much addicted, but he does seem to have a high sex drive (sex ‘only’ 1-2 times a week after 20 years? Yes, please). I’d say most men have the capacity to combine a ‘real’ sex life with porn and masturbation; they know they have fantasies their partners are unlikely to share or indulge, and they’re happy to deal with that themselves, as it were. But, OP, it sounds like there were already problems - the EA - and your discovery of all this porn use is somehow all the harder to deal with. Plus, it’s older women - you don’t say how old - and that sounds like a big part of the problem. One of the many problems with porn is that it somehow normalises men of any age looking at nubile young women, yet any hint of mature women being viewed - begins to hint at granny-porn perversion.

I think this is what disturbs you, so you have to have it out with him. It would be one thing if he was viewing pictures of women wearing, for example, sexy underwear, and you might be able to agree to indulge that particular fetish. But this sounds outside of those bounds. Do you think the whole ‘frequency’ aspect, i.e. how often he uses porn vis-a-vis how often you have sex, might actually not be the issue so much as the fact of it and the nature of it? You’re thinking, how can he have sex with me and then immediately start looking at these much older women? My guess is that he will say he ‘compartmentalises’ the two activities - and he may well be able to in the sense of enjoying both. You need to decide whether you can put up with it - and if no, whether he could give it up. Part of that answer might be found at sexual counselling of some kind. The bottom line is, in a relationship if something is a problem for one person then it’s a problem for both. Possibly, one compromise would be to shift the balance so that he had sex with you more often and used porn less, with a view to phasing it out entirely eventually.

AnyFucker · 27/04/2015 22:46

I blame Masterchef ! Grin

Vivacia · 28/04/2015 08:03

There's not much about women's sexuality or masturbation in all of that post oneeyed. Porn sends out the message that sex is all about what men want and women are merely objects in that pursuit.

dominogocatgo · 28/04/2015 09:07

Except for the porn made for lesbians, presumably.

LastTangoInBognor · 28/04/2015 09:12

Maybe it's because of the usually high frequency of troll posts on these sorts of threads but oneeyed I thought your post was much more balanced than most from men on the topic - and had some really good suggestions for the OP, particularly the idea that it's about proportions of sex v porn.

LastTangoInBognor · 28/04/2015 09:13

AF, I don't know if that's a specific reference but thanks very much for making me mentally link Greg Wallace and porn over my morning coffee!

Familyguy222 · 28/04/2015 12:40

I think ultimately you have to separate out the issues. Are you happy with your sex life? (it sounds like you have a reasonable amount of sex given how long you have been together)

If you are not happy with the amount of sex you are having I can see why this would be hurtful.

If you are happy with his libido then I think you need to see his porn viewing as just some visual stimulus he uses to masturbate which helps him destress/quell urges. I really think that too much emphasis can be placed on porn.

It sounds like there are other issues in your relationship and these are probably the real route of your issues.

AnyFucker · 28/04/2015 14:09

I believe the biggest users of lesbian porn are men

Vivacia · 28/04/2015 14:26

I think you need to see his porn viewing as just some visual stimulus he uses to masturbate which helps him destress/quell urges. I really think that too much emphasis can be placed on porn.

Yeah, porn is so harmless, stop being so uptight.

BuzzardBird · 28/04/2015 14:46

I wonder what the "urges" would be if he didn't whack off to porn?

AnyFucker · 28/04/2015 15:45

Don't go there. ..

pocketsaviour · 28/04/2015 16:27

There's a big difference between "lesbian" porn produced by the mainstream big studios for mainly male consumption, and actual proper queer porn.

There's an hilarious YouTube vid called something like "real lesbians react to lesbian porn" and it's well worth a watch (you don't see any of what they're watching!)

Easiest way to tell is to check the fingernail length on the participants. If they've got talons, they are definitely not lesbians Grin

AnyFucker · 28/04/2015 16:49

good point (see what I did there)

pocketsaviour · 28/04/2015 18:07

Arf arf!

But OP - what do you want to happen now? The porn use is probably an indicator that your relationship is not working for both of you as well as it could be, and its obviously upsetting you how much he's using. (Twice every day does sound a lot for someone in a relationship.) So what will you do now? You said in your OP "Our relationship isn't good and hasn't been for a while" - how do you want to go about addressing that?

Oneeyedbloke · 29/04/2015 19:16

True, Vivacia. If it's not too odd a thing to say, I'm a huge fan of masturbation for both sexes. I just wanted to emphasise the danger I think attitudes to male masturbation must have posed for women back in the day. Wanking is brilliant, whether solo or mutual: for stress release; for sexual self-education (ie learning what turns you on); as a safe alternative to PIV; for couples with young children too knackered for anything else! When sex drives don't match, it's the obvious solution to avoid conflict.

Oneeyedbloke · 29/04/2015 19:27

Cheers LastTango. Btw here's a general suggestion: why not write your own porn? Given that it's quite hard to find visual porn that's not cheesy and/or relentlessly male-oriented, writing your own stories and reading them to your partner can be great fun. Sort of an extension to 'talk dirty to me'. Characters can be thinly disguised versions of yourselves - as long as you don't fall into the trap of 'If you had one wish, who would you really like to sleep with?' 'Hmm, I think, your sister/brother/best friend.'

Vivacia · 29/04/2015 19:52

I just wanted to emphasise the danger I think attitudes to male masturbation must have posed for women back in the day.

Well, perhaps... but at the bottom of a very long list of bigger dangers?

Oneeyedbloke · 29/04/2015 23:15

True again, Vivacia, but that was just one historical point among several I made. So, the dangers of porn. Mainly, those relating to the production of porn, ie huge questions as to whether the actors - overwhelmingly, the female actors - are doing this work under duress. And then those relating to the consumption of porn, ie psychological problems and the normalisation of pornographic practices such as anal sex being seen as commonplace. Just because many men - most men - can separate porn and sex doesn't mean they're separate IRL. No, porn massively influences people's sex lives. Again, that's not automatically bad - I'm not promoting some sort of buttoned-up, missionary-position, for-procreation-only ideal - but anything that happens in the bedroom between two people has to have the consent of both. Here's a rule of thumb: I don't want to get turned on by something that doesn't turn you on. Any form of coercion should kill the thrill. If you seriously find making someone do something sexual against their will a turn-on, you have a big problem, and it probably stems from addiction to mainstream porn, with its endless parade of apparently compliant women portrayed as enjoying it every which way. Men, we are demeaned by this as well. Like I said, has imagination gone out of fashion? A friend of mine frequently expresses his sexual attraction to a woman by saying 'I'd smash her back doors in.' He's learnt that from a 'pornified' sexual culture.

LastTangoInBognor · 29/04/2015 23:43

oneeyed I appreciate your suggestion but to be honest we're a bit past that sort of thing. To forcw an analogy, it's a bit like suggesting an alcoholic gives no-alcohol beer a try.