porn - is there 'normal' usage levels

[kate00001]

I've been with my H for 20 years. We have DCs. Last year before fathers day I looked at his Google search history to buy him a part for his specialist hobby as a surprise. And there it was, he looks at a certain type of porn - up to several times per day. A type that is not like me or our relationship. Always the same type. I can't help but check now. For the past year it's always 1-2 times per day. Occasionally more. Our relationship isn't good and hasn't been for a while. We still have sex but only 1 - 2 times per week. Am I just a 'image' that he wants to keep up? Is the porn what he really wants or are fantasies just that and not what you want in real life?

ToYou I think you are conflating "normal" with "commonplace"

Correct. Because when things are commonplace they often become normal.

Oral sex used to be considered perverted. Then it became commonplace. Now it's considered normal.

Watching porn is commonplace. But you don't think it's normal. What makes you right and the countless millions of people (largely men) who watch porn wrong?

Quite simple really. Because they want to enough. Cognitive dissonance at it's most effective.

A question, then, AnyFucker. Is watching all porn wrong? Always?

If all porn was fully and truly consensual I would have no problem with it

I would imagine my definition of consensual might be quite different to the users of porn though.

But, for clarity, it is okay to watch porn that is fully and truly consensual?

Many porn stars make a very good living, I believe, and many wannabees seek to swell their numbers, without being coerced to do so.

It sounds like you're against porn in principle - which could lead to cognitive dissonance on your part.

not really

when there is a way to prove beyond all doubt that 18yo Samantha from Gwynedd is fully on board with having all her orifices pounded for the viewing pleasure of men old enough to be her grandmother, then we will talk

and even her grandfather, but perhaps that wasn't such an unintentional typo after all

What about Lesbian porn?

I think he's using it excessively and also in place of having a sexual relationship with you probably, I just don't understand the fascination with it when you are with a partner, it's neither true to life or loving, it's usually mainly about the male dominating the female.

Fact is, it shouldn't be an issue, which it clearly is if you are posting about it.

Well, AnyFucker, most people wouldn't work if they didn't have to - which means by your definition it's not fully and truly consensual work.

So I don't suppose you ever buy things, eat or drink out or - well - make any kind of purchase of goods or services because you can't prove beyond doubt those providing it really consented.

I find it endlessly depressing having the same conversations with people who are determined to find reasons why it is ok to support an industry that offers juicy images of 18yo's being sexually tortured for the viewing pleasure of the masses. The twists and turns of justification and minimisation are predictable and formulaic beyond grim belief.

Like pissing in the wind AF.

AF nails it again.

I'm not promoting or supporting porn (far from it), I just find it endlessly depressing when people like AnyFucker present their uninformed prejudices as fact.

No doubt there are 'juicy images of 18yo's being sexually tortured' and everything should be done to prevent that happening. But not all porn is like that. In fact, most isn't. Lots of porn actually features depictions of couples pleasing each other in a positive way.

But then you wouldn't know that because, if you're against porn, you don't watch it. Which means you're condemning it out of ignorance - or, worse, hearsay.

You don't have to participate in things to know they are wrong.

I could condone the use of porn if I was assured that it was ethically produced, but there is no assurance. Instead we have a wealth of evidence that shows the damage done to those who participate in it and are exploited by it and by those who watch porn and their partners.

You don't have to participate in things but you do need to be informed about them - and you can't believe everything you read in The Daily Mail.

You would never be able to buy anything if you insisted on assurance that it was ethically produced.

We've all seen documentaries that show exploitation of those making trainers, computers, clothing and all the rest. Human nature being what it is, this will always happen, in every business sector.

It's right to condemn the exploitation, but not the whole of the industry.

I work with companies where some individuals suffer bullying and harassment - but the majority of employees engage positively with their colleagues and direct reports.

It's right to condemn the bullying, but not everyone in each of those companies.

Much porn is wholesome. Participants enjoy it. And are well paid.

The twists and turns of justification for condemning porn wholesale are predictable and formulaic beyond grim belief.

Well here I am to talk about what I know.

What I know is that I'm in a sexless marriage with a man who will admit that the reason he doesn't particularly desire real sex is because he's watched on average maybe 10 hours of porn a week for about 15 years.

He knows it's fucked him up. Talking to him about it is horrifying. He's not a bad man. He cares about women's rights, I thought he was a terrific person until I found out about this. Nobody who knows him would think this of him in a million years. He's not an addictive type person, he's not a deadbeat, he's a regular, decent, smart and attractive man.

And yet, here we are.

I don't think what's happened to him would happen to everyone. But honestly, I can't imagine him ever being able to hold down a normal sexual relationship. And in my opinion, that kind of means his life is ruined in a way.

By his inability to control his porn watching.

I don't care if people watch porn. But I really, really believe that this is happening to a lot more men than we know. And by extension, to their partners. And I could never, now, say porn is harmless. It's not harmless at all.

And that's leaving aside AF and others excellent points on the exploitation side of it, not to mention what it says about women.

You don't have to participate in things but you do need to be informed about them - and you can't believe everything you read in The Daily Mail.

I'd be surprised if many of us were getting our information from the Mail . Personally I am influenced and informed by documentaries and books.

there have been quite a few I have watched which aren't about people being abused, or teens, or torture, or any of the other stuff which is admittedly out there but not to my taste.

I'm actually disturbed by this comment. The porn industry is inhuman and actual people, a lot of them underage girls, are harmed on camera. Real people. Real girls.

So when I see someone say that filmed abuse or torture of actual humans just isn't their thing it feels completely flippant.
Like
"Yes those ISIS videos of them beheading people aren't really my thing, but there are many other good videos on the net"

OP I think the number one problem here though is that you're staying with someone who is emotionally abusive. Why do you feel like you have to stay with him?

Same story here Tango, I have spoken with many, many women in the same position, none of which read the Daily Fail (most MNr's don't tbh)

LastTango this is the heart of the matter for me...

Leaving aside the question of consent in the production of porn which is a valid one I don't have an intrinsic problem with people watching porn.

The problem is the effect it routinely seems to have on people's ability to conduct normal, healthy sexual relationships with actual people.

My H has been impacted in this way -- not quite to the same degree as LastTangos but to the extent that he cannot conceive that I do not fantasise about penetrated in multiple orifices, thinks "real" women have their pubes shaved to within an inch of their lives. And the rest. He literally does not believe me when I tell him that for most women, having anal sex with two men at the same time is not appealing.

It's one of the main reasons we are separating.

I am not excusing this and I don't think all men who watch porn necessarily hold these ideas. I certainly don't think having had the odd hand shandy over Razzle as a teenager turns you into a sexual deviant. But I am sure that this sort of "sexual education", particularly in the absence of strong female role models and a decent moral compass, warps sexuality and emotional engagement in damaging ways.

The internet has obviously magnified this hugely but for me the biggest problem is when young men watch porn particularly aggressive porn without any separate narrative of healthy romantic relationships.

I totally agree newnames - especially about it as a 'sexual education'. What genuinely scares me shitless is that my husband is in his late thirties. His very first sexual experiences were in the days of magazines, and with real girls. He does have some idea of what normal is, it's just that he doesn't really find it exciting anymore.

There are kids growing up today who must be getting pretty much their entire knowledge of sex (aside from awkward parental chats) from porn. And whatever you can say about there being 'good porn' out there, we all know that the average is at the very least pretty demeaning to women, and very far removed from reality. What 14 year old is going to seek out ethical, well made porn? What 14 year old even knows that there's a difference? How could they?

Honestly, it's not that I'm going 'oh god they're all doing anal!' (there is another discussion there, I don't mean to belittle it) it's that I've seen how fucked my husband's mind is about sex. He doesn't find a real female body and sex itself appealing. Because he's wired his brain in a way that 'sexy' looks like porn, with all its attendant things - the screen, the clinicality, the solitary aspect- and he's a passive observer in his own sexuality.

I don't have to justify how I come to my opinions to anyone. If I come across as an uninformed bigot to anybody, so be it... it is obvious that between some people there will never be a meeting of minds. And that is ok by me.

I am sorry about what has happened to your marrriage, Last Tango

Porn ruins many lives, not least men's.

You don't have to watch the shit to know it's wrong, fgs, what a poor argument that is.

Most porn is not wholesome - it's far from it, you don't have to indulge in it to know that.