HOBBIT'S BAR - still finding it hard to move on...part 6.

[WellWhoKnew]

If you are struggling to come to terms with the ending of your marriage, no matter how that came about, nor how long it's been, this is the place where you come to say SHIT THIS IS HARD, when you hit those times of despair.

It is the place where it is never rude to interrupt if you're having a bad day and need to vent. No matter what.

It is a place where no one will tell you to 'move on', 'get over it', or 'at least you've got...'

I've also learnt there's actually a helluva lot of studies into 'delayed shock', which occurs around about months 4 - 6 after the trauma. So if you're surrounded by people (or indeed yourself!) expecting you to be 'getting over it by now', and you're feeling worse than ever...then this is why this thread began. You're pretty normal - it's just the 'real world' ain't dealing with this shit.

And if you're one of those for whom the profound shock has just registered on the Richter scale: it's horrendous. You too belong here.

It is the place where the only thing anyone will tell you to do is keep on keeping on (KOKO) and when you feel you can't: that's okay too. Try again tomorrow.

Amongst the shit, there are always giggles. But the only rule is: It is ALWAYS okay to say SHIT THIS IS HARD and interrupt the giggles. No apology necessary.

The bar, owned by Hobbit, but run by committee, is open to all as we wind our way through divorce, come to terms with our individual circumstances, or just cope with adjusting to a new life.

As for some glossary terms:

Jess is our dog, also owned by Hobbit, but here by popular demand. She perseveres with us all needing a daily dosage of her. Hobbit being the fabulous woman she is makes sure we are taken care of.

Izzitinis are a revolting drink. Izzie is gorgeous and inspirational but misguided in the world of bar cocktails.

No. 6's is what we are/were married to. Check out an earlier thread for what we actually call them.

My name is WellWhoKnew. I am divorced. He left me just shy of 12 months ago. He planned it, I was blindsided. Throughout my horrendous divorce, I learnt that our individual situations are always different, our feelings are the pretty much the same - although not necessarily the same at any given moment in time. THIS SHIT IS HARD with moments of light relief.

And our feelings are valid. Equally.

Our values, our opinions, ourselves matter. As well. No matter what they say.

I am trying to rebuild my life. I'm leaving the deadwood behind. I'm learning to laugh again. One day, I will 'move on', 'get over it' and be thankful that I've got what I've got. Until then I KOKO.

The previous thread is this one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2352545-HOBBITS-BAR-still-finding-it-hard-to-move-on-part-5?msgid=53939716

If you wish to follow from the start, then click on the link above and find all previous links there.

And when times get hard, or you need some motivation, then this song sums it up.

I have also had no reason other than him apparently being unhappy. Didn't once mention it to me. Said he was having a mental breakdown and didn't know who he was anymore. I didn't know what was going on as believed his tales of mental health woe but if faced with that now I would scream at the top of my lungs - that's because you're not who you thought you were you disgusting little runt!! The man I married would have been appalled by what he has become. Unless it was all an act of course. He has since denied ever being happy, even on our wedding day, which was just lovely to hear.

In the last couple of days when trying to ponder about him, I've had a strong thought about how he really is a complete stranger to me. I don't know anything about him anymore (and I don't want to). In a way I think it has been easier for me to accept that he has had some sort of personality transplant or that the guy I married has gone / died and what is left is just his evil shell. I think I would find it very hard seeing him being happy / funny / charming like the man I knew. It is easier seeing him a wreck. Even though it doesn't really help me - I actually find it disturbing that he has devastated so many lives apparently for a life he detests. I'm not sure if I'm making sense but the distance I get from viewing him this way - as a stranger rather than a husband - is powerful.

I'm sorry to those of you who have had hard days. Braving and Frizzy your children are lucky to have you there for them.

Cassa ditto! Except the last sentence. I'm a good listener, but the sound of silence was deafening

Frizzy tomorrow I will be 6 months on from when he left. I consider it to be a significant milestone, one to celebrate. What I have learned from my experience is that despite looking for reasons, there are none. As I said before, you cannot reason with a fuckwit incapable of sorting through his emotions. I bet he doesn't even know the reasons. Now I just see him as a loose emotional canon. And I would never enter a relationship with someone like that. Life is better when I'm in control of my emotions, when I am not at the mercy of whatever nonsense is going on in his fucked up mind. There is absolutely nothing worth sacrificing your emotional wellbeing for. And that's why I concentrate on MY life, MY kids, MY future.

That thread I read just before he left, the one a bit like this. Six months seemed to be a recovery point. I've had that in my sights throughout this. Tomorrow, 6 months. A few days later 30 years. Both significant milestones. I'm glad my marriage is over. In hindsight, it wasn't worth fighting for.

Most ironic statement on this thread has to be from the ex:

"She [relate counsellor] said I'm having a mid life crisis. How corny is that?"

Izzie you're a strongun. I'm so pleased to hear you sounding so positive. It's when you / me / we let feelings of them in like trying to work them out that sets us back. When you just accept that you'll never be able to understand it ever ever in a million years you sort of let it go. I'll never be able to work it out so I may as well not bother and instead focus on me me me (and my lovely babies, of course).

Do you know what I thought today as well for pretty much the first time (though everyone has said it to me)... HIS LOSS!!

family will reply later, got to pick up DS2 now

Trying to work out why he did what he did, and also thinking about what he's doing now, what he's planning to do in future = All not worth the time and head space.

I'm trying to focus on the things I can influence, like getting his stuff out and the house straight, planning a holiday with DD, planning some nights out with friends.

family that was a very inspirational post. And I'm so grateful to you for that, he's left with nothing in his life, no friends ( he left them years ago for his job) he's always said I'm all he has, and now he's left me too, along with our children, all he has now to talk to are himself, his mum and his brother, great, I've been the constant through so much, loss of business, house , dad, money, accident which was terrible to him, we'd just got back on our feet and he lost 2/3 off 2 fingers, he's a precision engineer so was a huge deal, even then he was signed off sick for 8 weeks and went in every day, I've tried everything to keep us going, but he's never been there for me? It's always been work first, kids then me somewhere? He's been so loving though, never doubted it really, but he's gone and I'm left here wondering what the fuck I could have done

Iwas I'm of the mind that the fact that we find it sad makes us genuine, normal and healthy people. 26 years is a long time, and for 26 years you were genuine, normal and healthy in your marriage. A true person. So don't be beating yourself up for finding it a tough day. I think it's perfectly okay for it to be a sad day for you.

Ali3 congrats on going to WA - a good decision in my opinion. There's some misconceptions about WA, that I think it would be timely to point out:

WA does not assume that violence is the only form of domestic abuse. Emotional abuse, financial abuse and/or sexual abuse is abuse.

I want to pick up on something According says about thinking of giving it a 'go' when you are thinking about dating. I would encourage anyone to give it a go who is struggling to come to terms with a marriage of unbalanced compromise that has left you reeling, feeling angry and feeling exploited. For me, WA helped me come to terms with the past accepting some of his behaviour was just darned unfair and abusive - and that it wasn't me! They are my charity of choice.

What I learnt from WA is that I'd rather be divorced than live in a bad marriage (I was still sickened by the idea of divorce when I rang them...) And I can now say I had a bad marriage. I also 'now' see red flags everywhere, but I also see healthy marriages too. I think it also taught me that I'd rather be happy alone, than unhappy with. So I want to make the point, that for me, it helped my self-esteem in general after the marriaged ended rather than giving me armoury for future dating .

Right to keep catching up.

Braving that is it exactly. It has taken me a year to realise it though. And I expect I'll still have times where I wallow in it and try to work it out but hopefully those times will become less frequent and I can snap myself out of it. Planning a life for you is exactly what I have done but now I want to do it and just enjoy it rather than doing it to keep busy if that makes sense.

Frizzy I guess the same applies to you but it will take time to find meaning in it for yourself. You won't be able to understand what he did. You would not want a life like his - it sounds desperately lonely and unhappy - and it is hard to understand why he would choose that. I often think it isn't a choice - it's a consequence of their dreadful behaviour. Despite telling a friend I would never leave him, when it came to it, my ex knew there was no coming back after what he did and after I kicked him out, he went back to the OW. She wasn't a choice, she was a consequence. Does that make any sense? They have to keep going with the behaviour they have started because to admit it is wrong is to admit they are wrong which for some reason they are incapable of doing.

Sorry I've ranted. Bottom line is you will never understand it and when you find a way to hold on to that, just a little, you may find the obsessive thoughts reduce because you can keep telling yourself to stop, no point thinking it.

Sounds like he has lost everything of any value and he is a fool for leaving. There is no telling them though, they will have to come to that realisation themselves. And that could take years. I am not willing to wait around for years for an apology that won't mean anything to me. I'd rather get on with my life and if that day ever did come I would look at him right in the eye and say.....

'Meh'

I've had a strong thought about how he really is a complete stranger to me. I don't know anything about him anymore (and I don't want to). ......the distance I get from viewing him this way - as a stranger rather than a husband - is powerful. ........ Bottom line is you will never understand it and when you find a way to hold on to that, just a little, you may find the obsessive thoughts reduce because you can keep telling yourself to stop, no point thinking it

family this is exactly where I am at. And as for "his loss", I think we can turn that around eventually to "my gain".

Braving I may have already said this, but your way of dealing with him is classic textbook. Cool, calm, in control. Whatever is going on in your heart and head, the signals you are sending to him are spot on.

Evening everyone.
Some small signs of some corners turned out there I think tonight. I'm shattered so heading to bed. HRT free night for me. Always easier. I've finally started to sleep a little better It seems. Such a relief. Began to wonder if sleep was for ever going to be a thing of the past.x

I have said it before . I was never told she wasn't happy. Until she told everyone else except me after she had left. Wasn't happy for months apparently. News to me. But amazing that they all lie then stick with their decisions because to say " I am wrong " is beneath them ?

Five months on & more good days than bad days .

So for the new starters in the divorce derby there is hope trust me because when I first found this superb help, I was in a very bad way .

Not much else to say everyone but KOKO.

Some songs are relevant - Broken Strings ( James Morrison ) on radio .

Drifted you've had a little name change I see. Good one. And good to hear from you again. Your change in five months is amazing. Another proof that life does move on, and often for the better.

Izzie Calm on the surface, little legs kicking like mad under the water :)

wellwho knew
I totally agree about Women's Aid. I thought my marriage was normal and it was for a lot of years but as my h power grew in his job and the older he got he became so good at bullying and manipulating that I actually believed him when he called me "fucking mental". He'd ignore me for days until I'd practically beg him for forgiveness just to have him be nice to me ( or the version of nice I liked the most ). Not once did I think this was a form of abuse... I just thought it was marriage and didn't know any better. Gradually I became isolated and only when he left and I went looking for help and a solicitor, did I hear someone say " that's a very abusive and controlling marriage you are in". I thought what ? Me ? But he never harmed me and she said "oh yes he did and I can see it plain as day" she sent me off with Women's Aid number and j have to say I still felt a fraud going, until they listened and confirmed that I had indeed been suffering from Mental and I suppose financial abuse. You don't need to have bruises to be a victim and I'm only now, very slowly and sometimes with one step forward 2 back realising that was in an abusive relationship. I'm going to try my best to break the cycle of control that he still is holding over me ( my dd ) but please, anyone who can identify with this, go and get help and counselling. My h never shared his feelings and that too seems to be one of the most common problems with men. Anyway, too serious now, off to watch poor McSteamy meet his end

Izzie PM'd you this morning .
Braving like the suggestion. Sums it up , a brave face & it is still hard some days, or some parts of the day.

drifted just replied.
Braving still a perfect performance. Loads of us were upside down in the water kicking our legs in the air at that stage

Hello everyone, thank you for all your support for today. It's been really hard as I expected it would be. Had a walk this afternoon and have felt a bit better since then.

Saw Sid at work this morning, he was emotional and found today hard as well, he was tearful at one point. He bought me flowers which he said were not an anniversary present as it wouldn't be appropriate but to say sorry and to show me that he didn't regard today as just a normal day and today still mattered to him even though we are separated. I declined the flowers and he has given them to our DD to say sorry to her.

It mattered to me that he was sad about today.

I'm sorry I haven't replied to anyone on here today, I don't quite feel in that frame of mind today. But KOKO everyone. xx

Cassa your post isn't a rant at all - it's really accurate. This bit: he wasn't the man I thought he was is a real indicator of detachment. There are things loveable about them, but there's also many thing detestable. Your post is really insightful, I think.

Family fingers crossed for your promotion. Go you. THIS SHIT IS HARD but you're inspirational in dealing with it.

Green good to see you again. The court is what you have to turn to as a 'last resort' - it's horrible, but upping your counselling is a good idea (I did). What I learnt, with retrospect of my own situation and others', is actually the fuckwittery/worst-case scenarioing is the hardest part, and it really ramps up just before a hearing (and depending on the outcome, after) which is what makes it stressful rather than the actual day in court. So strategies for managing fuckwittery and countering the worst case-scenarioing are things to discuss with your counsellor. Good luck. Even if you go the court route, remember that less than 2% of divorces go to a final hearing (it really is the worst case scenario for us little peeps - because it's the multi-millionaires that generally get a FH) so just because you've had to turn to them, does not mean you'll go all the way. And if you do, it doesn't mean you've failed. It just means you married a bona fide arse. KOKO.

Sakura Re: there's Too many "wells" in that paragraph. There can never be too many 'wells'. . Keep on, you're doing so well. So he's started the hoovering now? Oh, well, never mind. Might as well enjoy doing the hoovering in your lovely new home, doing just well enough bringing up your family happily. Well, that's my point of view. Take care.

iwas a very sad day for both of you. I will PM about that

So many messages and thoughts on here today..just read them all...sending the best to everyone for today and tomorrow and hope you all get a good night's sleep. x

Green will PM you in the next few days.

Ali I have told this story before, but it's worth telling again.

I live in Wales.

In Wales, there has been a very heavy advertising campaign encouraging women to seek advice for over two years (to my knowledge).

It's quite simple.

It asks six questions.

At the end of that, it says 'if you've answered 'yes' to any of those questions, then you may be in an abusive relationship.

I could, and did, answer 'yes' to five of the six.

If you'd asked me if I was in an 'abusive' relationship...I would have said 'no'.

In fact, every single time, I heard that advert on TV or Radio, I used to retort:

"That's marriage"

When my solicitor wrote her (as friendly as legal letters can ever be) introduction to MrSW, I got a night of carnage.

She advised me to switch off the phone, shut off the laptop, and hunker down. BUT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES RESPOND.

At 9am the next day she asked me 'if I'd survived'. I said yes (I was in a terrible place emotionally).

She said: He's one abusive and controlling bastard.

The rest is history.

I never knew because I didn't know. I now know.

The question I could answer 'no' to?

Does he hit you?

No.

But I witnessed him hitting others. I also stopped him hitting his own child.

I also know he used to resolve to hitting others to sort out his issues.

Or things.

He never 'needed' to hit me. The other five things worked well enough.

And to avoid sounding boastful, it's others that call me 'an intelligent woman'.

WA saved me. My intelligence...yeah the jury's out.

KOKO.

wellwhoknew isn't your h that's a police officer ?
It was the exact same when he left and initially told dd that Mum could move out get a council house near dds best friend and visit me at weekends. I quickly realised he had planned an exit for me and I wouldn't be getting an option. He said sure you'll be grand being nearer your mother etc etc. I was literally being pushed away like a piece of rubbish that no longer was a source of income to him. But if dd went he'd have to pay child support and that's not something he would either agree to or be able to afford. Maybe it's his position in work that he's used to giving orders that made him think he could do the same with me. Anyway my poor Dad panicked and suggested I see a solicitor purely to find out my rights. This was after h reassuring me that solicitors would not be needed if I just moved out. From the moment he found out I went to a solicitor the out and out verbal and text abuse started and basically hasn't stopped. Funny I too had witnessed him ( albeit with his father) getting physical. His Dad had been a drunk when he was growing up and would frequently get him out of bed as a small child and shout at him, his sister and Mum. As he got a bit older he started defending himself and when his father was abusive to me when drunk he would have physically dealt with him. He wasn't always a controller but it seems as he got older and got more power and influence at work, he started to treat me like the criminals or staff he managed. It's like at some point a switch was flicked and he essentially became his father. He has shown no remorse, affection, or sign of missing or caring for me. He has just shut me out like I'm nothing, despite 22 years together. I can't seem to comprehend how a person can just become like that overnight. I know his work is stressful but it's become all consuming to him and there just is no room for me, or apparently our son who is almost 20 ( no need to worry about child support so doesn't need him with him ) . Anyway similarly I have no bruises or cuts but I hurt in my head and heart and I almost think that's worse.
It'll be interesting to see how he reacts to my solicitor in the future .... As she's apparently a smart cookie who takes no bull.... He'll not like that !
Good, fuck him and his mate he moved in with, 2 sad single bastards together... Just what he always claimed was his worst nightmare... Oh the mid life crisis lol

Here for the 5am panic shift again. I really thought I'd managed better than that til I looked at the time. The loneliest hour.

Yesterday was fucking tough, I was so cold all day (though working indoors). I kept going into involuntary shakes. Like shock. Had my winter coat on all day.

I think I started to realise that DP has been playing me like the coward he is for the last two to three years of our relationship. He hasn't loved me but for whatever reason didn't tell me or want to make the break.

This may sound nothing to what others here are going through. But the other two big relationships in my life, those with the fathers of my children, were both abusive and I didn't have the guts or sense to leave until they were actually sleeping with someone else as well as me, and as well as hitting me.

So now my self esteem is below the floor. I kept on in this relationship because we had had a joyful first few years and I couldn't believe it wasn't going to come back. The lack of love and care was something I couldn't fathom and I kept on at the rock face of his indifference, looking for my lost love.
I feel violated now. This time last week we were having lots of sex. I have always made the mistake of equating sex with love. I thought it was our way of showing each other. But he was just using me.