HOBBIT'S BAR - still finding it hard to move on...part 6.

[WellWhoKnew]

If you are struggling to come to terms with the ending of your marriage, no matter how that came about, nor how long it's been, this is the place where you come to say SHIT THIS IS HARD, when you hit those times of despair.

It is the place where it is never rude to interrupt if you're having a bad day and need to vent. No matter what.

It is a place where no one will tell you to 'move on', 'get over it', or 'at least you've got...'

I've also learnt there's actually a helluva lot of studies into 'delayed shock', which occurs around about months 4 - 6 after the trauma. So if you're surrounded by people (or indeed yourself!) expecting you to be 'getting over it by now', and you're feeling worse than ever...then this is why this thread began. You're pretty normal - it's just the 'real world' ain't dealing with this shit.

And if you're one of those for whom the profound shock has just registered on the Richter scale: it's horrendous. You too belong here.

It is the place where the only thing anyone will tell you to do is keep on keeping on (KOKO) and when you feel you can't: that's okay too. Try again tomorrow.

Amongst the shit, there are always giggles. But the only rule is: It is ALWAYS okay to say SHIT THIS IS HARD and interrupt the giggles. No apology necessary.

The bar, owned by Hobbit, but run by committee, is open to all as we wind our way through divorce, come to terms with our individual circumstances, or just cope with adjusting to a new life.

As for some glossary terms:

Jess is our dog, also owned by Hobbit, but here by popular demand. She perseveres with us all needing a daily dosage of her. Hobbit being the fabulous woman she is makes sure we are taken care of.

Izzitinis are a revolting drink. Izzie is gorgeous and inspirational but misguided in the world of bar cocktails.

No. 6's is what we are/were married to. Check out an earlier thread for what we actually call them.

My name is WellWhoKnew. I am divorced. He left me just shy of 12 months ago. He planned it, I was blindsided. Throughout my horrendous divorce, I learnt that our individual situations are always different, our feelings are the pretty much the same - although not necessarily the same at any given moment in time. THIS SHIT IS HARD with moments of light relief.

And our feelings are valid. Equally.

Our values, our opinions, ourselves matter. As well. No matter what they say.

I am trying to rebuild my life. I'm leaving the deadwood behind. I'm learning to laugh again. One day, I will 'move on', 'get over it' and be thankful that I've got what I've got. Until then I KOKO.

The previous thread is this one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2352545-HOBBITS-BAR-still-finding-it-hard-to-move-on-part-5?msgid=53939716

If you wish to follow from the start, then click on the link above and find all previous links there.

And when times get hard, or you need some motivation, then this song sums it up.

Ino and Izzie my dd is 15 going on 21 ... Thinks the sun rises and sets in her dads ass. Problem is somehow I think she hacked a lot of my messages and was on her dads laptop ( conveniently ) the other night and saw a msg about her horse from me to him. She had the cheek to answer, this is dd etc
I'm in an impossible situation because when I try to talk to her, she refuses to answer and if I push it she rings him straightaway to beg him to come rescue her from evil me ! She is spending zero time with me except for essential eating sleeping, bathing, ( leaving bath full, soaking towels all over floor and dirty clothes everywhere) ... Even this knowing how it would wind me up and waiting for me to bite. Any other time I would but I'm at a loss what to do when she is so clearly taking his side at the minute. Of course I can't talk to him about this as its just another reason for him to tell me ""yes that's why I should be living there with her and not you " ... Mind fuckery again and he's so good at subtly being the wonderful Dad!

Frizzy my love, we feel your pain. Let it all out, and let your mum and sister take care of everything. The early days are the bleakest of all. You are in deep shock. It is a horrendous time. Don't even think about being brave right now. Just let it all out. And keep doing so. It's the right thing to do. Thinking of you xx

Frizzy I have days just the same sweetie and you just need the comfort of your Mum and sis. I wish I had a sis. Just let it out, you need to cry and it does no good to let it fester. I feel lost without my h too despite his arseholeness lol ... Go easy on yourself. He's being nice to make himself feel better, not you... That's one thing I realised at the very start. How sorry they are blah blah but then in a few weeks that'll change, once you start to get your shit together. They don't like that ! I wish I could meet you girls... God, what a piss up that would be, but please just feel whatever way you need to feel today. I don't think there is a right way to deal with this shit xx

Ali what sort of dad was he to her before? Would she have perceived him to be a good dad, or is he changing tack now? I think also, the thing about girls is that they totally manipulate their dads in a way that sons don't their mothers. My ex was historically the softer parent. As they got older, it became more bulls locking horns at certain times, that man thing. I think if we had a daughter, she would be doing the same as yours, because she would have been indulged by him already. Think of the iwas situation. Her son takes no shit from the ex, but her daughter is still a bit of a daddy's girl. I'm sure iwas will clarify. Anyway, I think it would be good for those with daughters to give their point of view about your situation.

Frizzy pleased your mum and sister are coming over. Sorry sweetheart it is so hard at the beginning and it feels like you will always feel that way. I wish there was something I could say that would help you feel better now for it is hell on earth. Don't think too far ahead, just think about getting through the next few hours. Don't put yourself under any pressure, forget about housework, accept any offers of help or company from your mum and sister. It takes times but the depths of despair you are in at the moment will ease. People tell you all sorts of things at the time, that you won't always feel like this and you are better off without him and you will think as I did, and probably a lot of the women in the bar, that it isn't the case but you know what they were right.

Get a great big hug from your mum and sister and let it all out. I remember when I told my sister what had happened, I cried in her arms for ages. I felt a bit less vulnerable and slightly protected again, it was a huge comfort knowing I had such good support so take all the support you can. Thinking of you

I've just received some bad news from a friend. Will be off thread for a bit.

ali The subtle 'wonderful dad' is so tricky. I think that probably the 'keep calm and carry on' attitude is best for the moment. It's outrageous though that she was allowed to reply to a private message from you to her dad without a serious talking to from her dad. I guess that is what you are up against. My heart goes out to you. I would insist that she tidies the bathroom before she swans off out of the house again. There again, without her dad on side, it's so tricky to physically make her. If you don't mind me saying so, and totally taking account that she is still a child and probably traumatised by events, she is old enough to comprehend the hurt she is causing you. You don't want to become a 'doormat' for her (and her dad) to ride roughshod over. Do you have anyone that she respects - grandmother, old family friend, aunt who could gently remind her of some home truths? Hang on in there though - it's early days

frizzy I can't say anything more than others have said. It's the most awful situation but it will improve with time. Believe that and take all the comfort from others that you can in the meantime.

izzie hope all ok?x

izzie when you're back, hope all ok ?

Ali my DD is 16, acts a lot older in some ways but throughout all of this it has been apparent that she is still a kid and anger, crying and lashing out has been her way of dealing with it.

She was hard work before all of this happened. She takes after her dad personality wise, strong willed, opinionated, won't be told what to do, bolshy, confident, cheeky and quick tempered.

It was very hard to start with, tears, tantrums and strops. Told me she hated me because I asked her dad to move out, told her dad if we had a row. If I'm honest she's manipulated situations to get what she has wanted sometimes. She's been upset a lot and has worked that on occasions knowing that her dad and I feel guilty.

She has always been very close to her dad, they have some similar interests, he's fun, all her friends think he's great, she's very much daddy's girl. He does discipline her to be fair, but she likes spending time with him and I'm the boring parent.

We told her and her brother that he had been having an affair in October, I asked him to move out in November and I said the marriage was over in December. It has only been the last week or so that it has settled down a bit with my DD.

She had a major meltdown a couple of weeks ago, broke down when she was with her dad. He had a go at her and she got really upset and ended up telling him exactly how she was feeling. So even though he was in the wrong she still chose to tell him rather than me. Apparently she didn't want to upset me any further but I think some of it is because she finds it easier to talk to him than me even though we are close.

As a result of my DD's meltdown we had a long talk, all four of us together and a lot was said, I think we were all honest and at the moment things are easier. She felt stuck in the middle, her dad and I were hardly speaking even though we work together in the family business. Her dad had been very nasty and spiteful recently and as a result I was asking my DD to keep things from her dad and basically not be herself with him because I didn't want any further upset from him.

We're getting on better at the moment and she's not stuck in the middle and as a result our DD seems happier but I'm relying on her dad to not be a nasty bastard again to keep it that way so it's still hard because I hope he's being honest but I still don't trust him.

So basically talking altogether has helped but it is a fragile peace and it has taken a long while to get here. Just keep talking to her while being firm about unacceptable behaviour. Fortunately my ex-DH had the kick up the backside he desperately needed by seeing for himself just how upset our DD was and he wanted to try and make things easier for her. I hope your ex gets to a point where he realises that the most important thing is your DD and that he just causes further problems by using any upset of hers as a further reason to get at you. Sadly they don't seem to get to that conclusion by themselves. Only you will know if you might achieve anything by talking to your ex and spelling it out to him. I hope your ex is able to realise that your DD would be in a better place if he did the right thing by his DD rather than doing what suits him. x

Sorry to hear that Izzie, hope you are okay. x

So I'm looking advice on dd. if you read Izzie's questions to me. My h was a good dad to dd. it has only been since DS went to uni though that everything changed. dd was and still is very close to ds, they used to hang out in fam room watching TV and listening to music. When DS went to uni, dd started to come sit with us more but it became a very 'let's take the piss out of Mum' thing. As we got further into debt, he knew that horse should go and dd had lost interest. Yet he never had the balls to tell her we couldn't afford it any more. That final row was over the horse when he left. I couldn't take the debt and he wouldn't and still won't face up to it. He has since for 6-7 weeks got me to pay for its food, got her to use her pocket money for food and he paid livery. Nothing for child maintenance or food for her but is holding onto that horse for dear life to use it as leverage. Until DS went to uni I was the one who took her everywhere. In her old yard she had pony on loan, I took her there everyday. Always have taken them wherever they need to go but was also ' nagging mum' about tidying rooms etc. he never had a go at her about that, never ever was bad Dad and when he did need to be, he got me to tell her whatever it was. I think she genuinely believes I am responsible for him being away and is taking it all out on me... Poor Dad, he's skint. He's actually living with his b mate in a huge house rent free and can come and go as he pleases, there is a housekeeper that irons his shirts ...dd loves telling me about how he is pampered and how funny his b mate is. I cannot compete, I'm just the mum left behind, sad, hurt and angry. Only requested for washing, ironing, lifts etc. I am literally at my wits end with her and really do feel like he's won and that I should leave and let them get on with it. Jeez now I'm crying again. About 4 days since she has spoken to me other than essential answers. I tried txting ( wtf why again) him to see if he'd even phone me so I could chat about position with her, then told him, actually no don't bother. So she's just dragged herself out of bed !!! Now is getting ready to go riding ( once a week ) with him and to hell with me.
I've just had enough, but if I leave my house now, that's it, I'll give him exactly what he wants and it appears what she wants.

isashappy messages just crossed... You have my dd ! Exactly the same

Bollocks this shit is hard, just got pulled over by the old bill £100 on the spot fine for shitty number plate the twat bought me, more shit to deal with, still what doesnt kill us makes us stronger and all that shit, when will it end please, crying in the back of a police car, how embarrassing! but least they didnt breathalise me.. hope tomorrows better ..god willing believe in Karma but its taking a bloody long time to get here, sorry for the rant

Ali If it's not a possibility for her to storm out and live with him in his friend's house then perhaps you 'hold more of the cards' than you think? I know very little, to next to nothing, about the legalities but you are living in the house. Surely he can't 'get you out' without a long and drawn out legal process - if at all? If seems that you are really concerned that DD will say she wants to live with her dad and therefore you will be 'de facto' homeless as he will be allowed to stay in house with her? Have you had legal advice about this?

Ali very much so, I used to get the mick taking thing too. My DS has been very good with his sister and has spent lots of time talking to her and when he has been home I have encouraged them to go out together, just the two of them. Could your DS talk to your DD, she might feel she could talk to her brother more easily.

My DD has a summer job, it's just at a weekend apart from in the summer holidays. Is that something your DD could do that might enable her to help keep the horse?

Your ex seems to be playing the "woe me" card and thus getting your DD's sympathy and painting you as the bad guy in the process. I feel closer to my DD now than I did when all of this happened despite all the upset and anger. I used to ferry her around a lot and drag her out to things she didn't really want to do but we didn't really go out and do fun things. Her dad did that with her most of the time because he likes some of the things that she does. Surfing, photography, cliff walks, motor sport for example.

I do more with her now, have mother and daughter time away from the house. We went swimming and for a massage last week and we had a really nice time. The massage is not my sort of thing at all but she wanted to go and I like swimming so we went. I wouldn't have done that before but we both enjoyed the day.

Could you try having more involvement with the horse and spend time with your DD brushing it or something even if you can't ride.

Don't make any rash decisions on the house, give it time. I think as 1 suggests it would help with there is someone else who could speak to your DD and gently point out to her that this is not your fault as sadly your ex doesn't seem likely to do this. x

fairy She will have to spend the rest of her life - if their relationship lasts that long - fearing that he's cheating. Every time her DC is an obnoxious brat - which all DCs are from time to time - she'll be worried that he'd rather be with his own children. Every time they row, and they will, she'll be anxious he'll be running back to you. It's not a life I'd want for all the tea in china. Little comfort I know at the moment but true I feel nonetheless xx

Living sorry to hear that. Everything seems to go wrong at the same time sometimes doesn't it, I hope tomorrow is a better day.

Fairy I have struggled with thinking that the OW has got away with everything with no comeback at all and is now happily with my husband and it doesn't seem fair that someone who has behaved like they have ends up happy. But OW know that he is a cheat, they will have seen for themselves how easily the lies that were told to us come and how convincing they were so they always have that insecurity. I know the OW in my case doesn't trust my ex-DH and I wouldn't want to live like that. I think statistically a lot of these relationships don't work out and even those that last are not necessarily happy.

Ps I dropped into the conversation with my OH whether he knew that if he lived with another woman who had children, then he'd be responsible for putting them through uni - not their father! He's baulked somewhat at the cost for his own - gave him some food for thought no doubt. Hope the sex, conversation, or whatever it is, is worth it. He's quite a tight wad. What's the saying, "revenge is a dish best served cold. "

I should have said 'tight wad' unless he is the sole beneficiary...

I'd quite like to be 'a fly on the wall' of a thread where the OW are posting. Would make interesting reading!! If any are lurking, which I'm sure they're not as they are probably much too busy trying to keep their OHs happy - and in my case he might have a fair sized wallet (but I intend to keep a fair share of it because I loved him when he had NOTHING) - I hope you can sleep easy at night because you are all disgraces to womanhood!! Sorry, am ranting . My m and d called in and put some fire into my belly!!

1 yes I would find that quite interesting as well. There is an ex-OW who posts on the site quite regularly and I do find it quite interesting reading her posts, she has said, if I recall correctly, that he used her for sex and didn't treat her well and I really struggle to find any reason why staying in a situation like that would be appealing.

I don't understand the motivation for why someone would get involved with a MM. Even leaving aside the moral reasons. You can't really go out together and you're probably getting snatched hours dictated by when he is able to sneak out. There seems to be quite a few men out there who like to do this FWB thing so even if a woman just wants sex it shouldn't be too difficult to find a single man.

My ex-DH didn't offer the OW anything other than sex and she was apparently shagging some other bloke behind my ex-DH's back so why the hell did she need to get involved with my husband? I just don't get the appeal.

I'm having a hard time too. I have a really really important thing at work tomorrow and I desperately needed a clear weekend to prepare (H has kids) but Friday night he collected the kids and had a massive go at me over a misunderstanding and told me he wanted a divorce (yes we are separated, he's moved out, it's going that way I know but this is the first time he has said that). So I've been in a state all weekend when I needed to be calm, and I had been doing so much better. THIS IS HARD

In H's case he's going to be living with two dc who aren't his, who won't be used to being quiet when he's been on nights etc. most likely taking on a big mortgage, working all the overtime he can get to pay for it. Her ex to deal with (who threw her and her dc out over this), me to deal with, juggling spending time with DD. Paying for his MLC car or facing selling it and buying something cheaper much less freedom on his days off and less money to spend on the latest gadgets, probably having to ask permission, she might insist on joint finances which he'd find very difficult.

Having to pay maintenance to me, while I'll actually be reasonably comfortable financially, not as comfortable as we were but OK. On top of all that there's the guilt about what he's done to me and dd, the possibly un-repairable damage to his relationship with his family and friends. And god knows how either of them will be able to trust each other.

Sounds lovely :)

On the other hand I'm single and can do what the hell I like with who the hell I like and can spend my money as I see fit.

fairy some people will tell you that your anger should all be at the ex! and not OW, as she had no responsibility to you. And that you are deflecting the blame into her instead of him. Well, fuck that, she is just as much to blame in my opinion, and I too hate the bitch involved in destroying my marriage, and always will. And I'm glad you said what you did to him. He thinks he's being the good guy now by helping you. But it doesn't alter the fact that he wouldn't need to be doing so if.....

And yes statistically the odds of them lasting....see this link....
affairadvice.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/do-affairs-end-up-in-successful-relationships-13/

ali you are entitled to what you are entitled to. He may want the house for himself. Well I would like to win a few million on the lottery. So up his arse! Don't give in to his bullying.

I've deleted the rest of my post about my friend. Will post later.