HOBBIT'S BAR - still finding it hard to move on...part 6.

[WellWhoKnew]

If you are struggling to come to terms with the ending of your marriage, no matter how that came about, nor how long it's been, this is the place where you come to say SHIT THIS IS HARD, when you hit those times of despair.

It is the place where it is never rude to interrupt if you're having a bad day and need to vent. No matter what.

It is a place where no one will tell you to 'move on', 'get over it', or 'at least you've got...'

I've also learnt there's actually a helluva lot of studies into 'delayed shock', which occurs around about months 4 - 6 after the trauma. So if you're surrounded by people (or indeed yourself!) expecting you to be 'getting over it by now', and you're feeling worse than ever...then this is why this thread began. You're pretty normal - it's just the 'real world' ain't dealing with this shit.

And if you're one of those for whom the profound shock has just registered on the Richter scale: it's horrendous. You too belong here.

It is the place where the only thing anyone will tell you to do is keep on keeping on (KOKO) and when you feel you can't: that's okay too. Try again tomorrow.

Amongst the shit, there are always giggles. But the only rule is: It is ALWAYS okay to say SHIT THIS IS HARD and interrupt the giggles. No apology necessary.

The bar, owned by Hobbit, but run by committee, is open to all as we wind our way through divorce, come to terms with our individual circumstances, or just cope with adjusting to a new life.

As for some glossary terms:

Jess is our dog, also owned by Hobbit, but here by popular demand. She perseveres with us all needing a daily dosage of her. Hobbit being the fabulous woman she is makes sure we are taken care of.

Izzitinis are a revolting drink. Izzie is gorgeous and inspirational but misguided in the world of bar cocktails.

No. 6's is what we are/were married to. Check out an earlier thread for what we actually call them.

My name is WellWhoKnew. I am divorced. He left me just shy of 12 months ago. He planned it, I was blindsided. Throughout my horrendous divorce, I learnt that our individual situations are always different, our feelings are the pretty much the same - although not necessarily the same at any given moment in time. THIS SHIT IS HARD with moments of light relief.

And our feelings are valid. Equally.

Our values, our opinions, ourselves matter. As well. No matter what they say.

I am trying to rebuild my life. I'm leaving the deadwood behind. I'm learning to laugh again. One day, I will 'move on', 'get over it' and be thankful that I've got what I've got. Until then I KOKO.

The previous thread is this one:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2352545-HOBBITS-BAR-still-finding-it-hard-to-move-on-part-5?msgid=53939716

If you wish to follow from the start, then click on the link above and find all previous links there.

And when times get hard, or you need some motivation, then this song sums it up.

It is all the things that you see too - the Grandparents out with the children. You think " that will never be me now" . Holidays are the worst and I can't even begin to imagine Christmas this year ....

He works shifts and has often not been there Christmas Day, Easter, Birthdays etc. which might make it easier, maybe.

We usually spend Christmas with his family, which will be hard to get out of without causing offence, I've tried to explain to my mother in law that we have to break our usual routine, and start some new ones and new traditions, I think she understands but at the same time she's clinging to normality.

I've done holidays and Christmas with my wider family and its hard even though its so lovely of them to try to help me. One one holiday I was at my most depressed which may have just been a matter of timing as it was a year after his affair. I was walking round with such a sinking feeling and thought to myself I would definitely have to go and see the GP for help when I got home. But I picked up after a couple of days and it was all uphill form there. I haven't felt that level of depression since. The grandparent thing hasn't bothered me yet as maybe I'm a bit young but seeing other families cuts deep on special days. Not so much on other days. I have also tried doing special days with my ex and DS all together again it was nice because my ex made a big effort but also weird. Friends thought I was weird they thought it meant I was getting back together with him and I had to give a lot of reassurance that is never going to happen.

Braving I think it will make it a lot easier for you if he often wasn't there anyway.

My 19th anniversary is a few weeks off. I can't remember the actual date . It might be a weekend, if it makes me sad I'll do something extra special for me. If it doesn't, just enjoy ignoring it.

I was lying in bed this morning thinking about how I'm settling into life as a single woman. My circs are a bit different to most on this thread as some of you had happy marriages. I was devastated too, as this all unfolded, but because he kept the torture up of Should I Stay or Should I Go? for over 2 fecking years I'd had time to prepare.

I'm no longer constantly second guessed, which undermined me terribly and meant I thought through cast iron reasons for everything I did. At one time that included moving from one room to another.

I can choose clothes, make up, even jewellery, without mentally checking he'd approve. I can be where I want to be when I want to be. Talk to who I choose ( so long as they are happy about that .) Talk to.....men without a song and dance about us " flirting". Or worse than a song and dance - once got a backhander because an old chap patted my arm.

So it's great that those things and more are out of my life, although he tries when I do have to see him. The downside is that, as I posted previously, I feel like I've been imprisoned in a cave or box for the previous couple of decades. I wonder if I'm being normally? There's no way 2 decades of abuse haven't left me unscathed. My confidence can be rocky.

Long post but I need to talk about it all...

I suffered abuse too but quite rarely until he met OW and ramped it right up so I get very confused on the one hand missing the good times on the othe hand being grateful for my freedom.

You can talk about it as much as you want, Roz my love , we are cheaper than a counsellor. I think it helps to get it all out of your system, I wrote all my pain and anger down in a notebook in the early days, looking back on it now, I can hardly recognise myself in those words.

Anniversaries and holidays are difficult, but after 28 years together, they are going to be, Christmas was hard, but it was only a few months after he had left so it was always going to be, in the end we had a lovely day together and didn't miss him at all. I will be going away for our wedding anniversary at the end of June, with the boys to Turkey hopefully, just to chill in the sunshine for a week.

I, for one am glad you're free of your ex Roz, he sounds a terrible bully and narcissist, and you deserve better.

Rozalia I know a tiny little bit of what you say - I don't think though that any marriage is totally "happy " - the last few years I had at times intense quizzing of things WHAT I had said, WHEN had I said them - what did I MEAN by a certain answer - even if it was only as simple as "OK" How many spins can be put on "OK" ?? Usually that OK was said because I was so busy trying to choose the words that would have the least impact or to try to minimise what was going on ( his own internal reflections) or just to stop the conversation altogether! I was asked in retrospect why I had or hadn't done things and this was sometimes from 4 years ago ! I know what you mean about being "second guessed" and I know what it means to have what I say or what I do interpreted in a way that was so off base! Actually this is quite therapeutic to write this..........You obviously had way more restrictions placed on yourself so yes it will be good to be you although it is a tough road! Sending you a cup of this morning and hope you have a lovely day doing what you want to - even if it is nothing or just watching the London Marathon. There are some stories out there e.g. I was watching a feature about the Marathon Man yesterday. I linked to his website and read the further detail on his upbringing - how can people be so awful to a child. This is his way of coping. What an inspiration!

He is a terrible bully and narcissist Hobbit. All the talk recently on this thread about mediation has been so useful. I didn't realise there was mediation over financial settlements. Someone posted that it is best to use a solicitor if ex has been manipulative, so I'll do that. I know he'd be horribly bullying and pressurising in that situation, all the while trying to charm the mediator. I'd be dreading it. He already has very decided ideas about the whole settlement, trying to give me the impression I'm lucky to be getting anything. He must think I'm a fool. Must remember, he always manipulates, he doesn't know anything else.

Tabby, I had some, few, good times to mourn too, so I know how hard it is. It must be more so if your H was usually a decent man.

I was prepared for an abusive marriage by my abusive childhood. My mother hated being a mother and hated us children. As we got older the hate lessened but the damage had been done.

WiseOne, that's it exactly. The arrogance and entitlement of thinking you can treat someone like that. That you have a right to demand explanations.

He once blew up because I had said I was "dismayed" about something he'd said. It was something horribly hurtful but I was trying to convey how it left me feeling without causing more trouble. It caused more trouble. For about an hour.

Years ago he would read my sent emails. I didn't know he was doing this until I got cross examined about certain words or phrases. "what did I really mean?". He knew he was abusive and was always watchful in case I let someone else know. I'd try to reason with him about monitoring my emails, he took no notice. Eventually I stopped emailing friends, it was too fraught. Another victory to him.

In fact he'd log on to my profile if I wasn't about and check on my internet usage. Then there'd be another blow up. You'd think I'd been trawling porn sites. Basically anything I did,apart from cook, clean (never well enough) or dance attendance on him, was WRONG. I'm surprised he didn't produce a list of Approved Activities.

What a bastard, yet I dreaded the marriage ending. . Just going to go dance a jig of joy that it has.

WWK you are a lovely and intelligent woman.
You were married to a bastard.
You are no longer.
You have achieved a lot in your career.
You will find a job to engage you and enrich your life.
Ditto, a new partner to do the same.
You're bound to feel like everything is a bit of an anticlimax after fighting the good fight for months on end, your focus has now shifted, that's a lot to deal with on your own.

I think we put you on a bit of a pedestal sometimes, but that's only because you are so clever and eloquent, but then we forget that you're dealing with the aftermath of a shockingly bad divorce, and that takes its toll on a person, even one as capable and grounded as you.

As you so rightly say, "Shit, this is hard, " and it doesn't stop when you have the absolute in your hand.
You say you are the ' poster girl' for doing a lot of things wrong, but actually you are also the 'poster girl' for doing a lot of things right, in my eyes anyway. so, KOKO lovely girl, x

Yeah, don't even consider mediation with that horrible sack of shit, Roz my love, that wouldn't get you anywhere, as they have to be reasonable and he wouldn't recognise reasonable if it hit him in the face with a shitty stick!
< which I would very much like to do on your behalf>

You should be dancing in the street with joy, my darling to be away from this man, run for the hills, you are free. The more I hear about him the more I despise him and his treatment of you.

JESS in marathon outfit PLEASE ?

Morning all

I slept for 9.5 hours last night. That's almost double what I've been getting most nights. I will feel better for it later, I'm sure, once I've taken time to come to, as it were, and get washed and dressed.

wedding anniversary seems we have a spate of milestone ones coming up. Yes it was me who said my 30th one is Bank Holiday Monday coming up. Which means 33 years since I met the bugger. My plans for that weekend are to do nothing special at all, because I would be more conscious of the occasion if I did that. So I will have a normal weekend and will keep myself occupied. My thoughts for that weekend/day, I will aim for "whatever", "it's just a date" "numbers are just numbers". And if that doesn't work, then try "if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have my sons" or "with his help, financially, I've not done too badly for myself". If that doesn't work then I'll be wondering how he feels knowing that all he has to show for the marriage, except in financial terms, is a brand new car, a number of electrical gadgets, his clothes, a rent free existence in someone's house, and a more and more distant relationship with his sons. I wonder if he will think about us going on honeymoon in the same area as the holiday home, in fact a five minute car journey. I doubt he will, he's an avoider, a runner. But he may just may consider his position as a no longer family man. Who gives a toss, really. Says me, desperately trying to believe that. I may order a Jessgram, saying something like "go fuck yourself" or "who gives a toss". Will ponder that, and pre order so I can use if necessary. It really amuses me having the jessgram as the screen thing on my ohine. I have the "he's a fucking disgrace one". Makes me smile every time I use the phone. Well, to all ladies hitting those milestones, here we go, let's just get it over and done with. Next year's one won't have zero in it, so it won't matter.

WWK your words of wisdom are spot on as always. What always surprises me is when you talk about yourself. The first couple of sentences of your last post really surprised me. Were you always like that? You fascinate me. Most of the other posters I think I could write a fairly accurate character description of them, but I feel I'm still way off the mark with you. If ever I were to describe someone as an onion, it would be you. Yes, you're an onion.

Your long term goals. Not easy to decide what you want. Go easy on yourself, and work on one goal at a time. You know what you want re moving. How much that is linked to the job, I don't know. And the job thing, I think it will take a while and a few job moves before you settle, before you know which way you want your career to go. As for your self esteem, that should not be linked to your job. It comes from within. You have nothing to prove to anyone. And if you did, you already have. You have been through a horrendous ordeal over the last year, having had no chance to even have the luxury of catching your breath before heading down legal hell. Take a deep breath. Give your brain a chance to recover, as well as your body. Enjoy the here and now. Look around at the beautiful surroundings, enjoy your quiz nights, go see friends, indulge yourself. You have told me countless times to slow down. You were right. In the same way, please do the same yourself, but with your brain. It will still be there tomorrow. The choices won't disappear because you choose to ignore them. And personally, I find the major decisions can't be forced. The subconscious does a lot. So maybe be a bit "future shmuture" or "choices shmoices" for a while. The "significant meaning" to your life right now is recovery from the last year. Give it time.

I do understand where you are coming from. My brain constantly whirrs, and I'm always making plans. But I do recognise that I should mentally chill more.

Roz I agree that mediation with him would very likely be a complete waste of time and money not to mention a battering to your self esteem. If he refuses to be reasonable via solicitors and you end up going the timetabled court route I think I'm right in saying that they court expects you to have explored the possibility of mediation first. That does not mean you have to go to mediation with him that just means you have a one to one meeting with a mediator, decide its not right for you and the mediator writes a letter to confirm you have explored it as an option. That what my mediator explained to me anyway.

Thanks for that info Tabby. My SHL would have probably advised the same, eventually, nowhere near that point yet. But I'd rather be well informed ahead of time. I know how my anxiety can rocket if I'm having to deal with such things with him.

It was probably last year, I forget. But that wedding anniversary we were literally not talking. A total new low for us. And I sat doing nothing and relived the whole fucking wedding day in my mind. Another massive low. So this year, it will certainly be better. Yes! Glad I remembered that.

Yes Hobbit I put WWK on a pedestal and forget that she's actually just as insecure as the rest of us.

Oh, and absolutely about this being cheaper than counselling. This IS my counselling. Never had it.

A MARATHON OUTFIT!!! Ha ha Izzie you're mental woman
Gotta to to work now, no time for Jess pic till later, so think on with some SENSIBLE suggestions please, laters....

Bobs have you got a head like Birkenhead this morning? Hope you had a good one. X

Marathon outfit, I think that was Wise. Oh come on, I'm sure you will have something in that prop box.

Yes I was wondering about bobs. Hope you had a good time. Look forward to hearing about it later

Just lying reading all the posts this morning, Roz I think you have battled for long enough and need to rest and rebuild your life without any unloving people in it. Easier said than done I know.
Just thinking if the series of txts that went between h and me last night and after re reading them realised it was exactly the same pattern as our marriage... I tried to communicate so we can get some essential stuff sorted. He drags up me phoning the police... I explain why ( because he threatened me) .. He still denies and so on except I refused to say I was wrong ( because I wasn't ) ...he twists everything I say and I end up giving in and he wins txt conversation ! That's our marriage summed up, he refuses to admit any wrongdoing and bullies me into submission.... Now how do I break this pattern, apart from giving my phone away lol. One stupid night and I had been doing so well not letting him bully me.
Plus again he is taking dd out and she is punishing me by going and still not speaking to me, despite me trying to be loving and telling her that despite her being angry with me that I love her. Arrrrrgh

wwk My goodness, your post gave me a real pause for thought. I agree with izzie - with other posters on here, you feel you know them so well that you would almost be able to recognise them if you bumped into them. But with you, I know that I wouldn't. I'm not sure if 'enigma' is quite the right word but I think you are a bit of one - if that makes sense? There's so much to you. I love Izzie's onion description. One thing is for certain- you are an inspiration to us all. Goal wise- we can all see - I'm sure- that you are destined to find and achieve yours. Don't be in too much of a hurry though - as hobbit said, you've been through a traumatising ordeal by the sounds of it.

I think one of the most frightening things about divorce later in life is that the sands have totally shifted. My goals until recently were to be as good as possible at my job, to continue to support my family emotionally, ensure my and OH's elderly parents were well cared for into their old age and enjoy life - with no serious financial worries - until death do us part. How that's changed. For everyone else too. Goal now = survival with sanity in tact.

To change subject slightly, OH's parents are becoming very suspicious that something is up. They are lovely people, but needy emotionally and increasingly physically. He has always left their 'needs' to me. He rang this morning and had the bloody cheek to ask me to ring them as they had an issue that needed sorting. They'd been ringing our landline but I'm ashamed to say I ignored. My heart is wanting to help but my head - and voice - said "your parents, your problem." Quite a relief but feel guilty. He'll now be in a foul mood but tough. I'm wondering how others managed/are managing in laws. I think they'll be horrified about their dear son when the truth is out.

Ali yes, text wars, been there and got the t shirt. I know they are best avoided, you know they are best avoided, everyone here knows they are best avoided but.........

Your daughter situation is a tricky one. You are being very calm. I think I would have resorted to, "Who exactly do you think you are?" No doubt you've tried that too. Is she an older or younger teenager?

Ali it's difficult to break the texting thing. My advice, which I would find INCREDiBLY difficult to follow, is to absolutely ignore anything not related to the matter in hand. Either you just literally ignore and persist with the original purpose of the text. Or you say you only wish to discuss the matter in hand. If he refuses to comply, then maybe end the text by saying something like contact me when you are prepared to discuss x, or tell him this is what you are doing about x, and if he has any issues with it, he should let you know by x date. I think it's about talking control of the issue. I reckon Braving is an ace at this. She decides what she's going to do, and just goes ahead. I hope she will give you some advice

As for your daughter, give her time. But hold firm with discipline. If you let that go now, you will regret it later.

1 the in laws. I would say help them if you want to, you clearly are fond of them. However, HRT has lost any rights to expect you to do that. And he's putting you in a very difficult situation when they haven't been told the truth but suspect something. It's his job to tell them. If you find it too difficult to deal with them whilst you are effectively living a lie, then don't. There is only so much pressure we can all take.

I will post sometime about his family, my in laws. But basically, it's a very different scenario to yours, they aren't a close family at all. So none of what I say will be relevant to your situation.

Just can't do this, feel desperate today, just crying and shaking, mum and sister are coming over, text DH he's being kind and saying he will do everything he can for all of us, but it's not what I want him to say, I want him to come home and us to be a family again