Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

thats - buying him out sounds fanstastic! Good to hear you are excited and seeing positive changes ahead.

thats great if you can buy him out. Keep thinking it through (I found further stuff occurred to me after every good idea I had) and keep your powder dry - no need as yet to let him have any inkling of your plan.

Fi oh no, not more court

Sorry to hear that, fi. Wishing you strength.

Sounds a great idea, thats. Good to hear you sounding positive.

trying my best to avoid it, but thinking its not possible...

thank you for supports

Adding my support fi. Here for you.

Thinking of you too fi

thanks for all the supports Hope you are doing ok there Name and Thats your plans still moving ahead?

Horrible evening... He came back around 11:00, massive litany of how awful I am, how it's all my fault, I embarrass him. I got fed up and lost it, ran outside intending to go to car which was parked down the street, but he came after me, ended up pulling me back to the house by my arm. I have definitively told him that I hate him. And I don't want to be with him. He's upstairs now and I'm intending to sleep on the sofa.

I had the police around earlier because he'd sent loads of texts 'threatening' to come back but police were puzzled as no crime had been committed... I was exasperated because WA, solicitor, etc say to notify police if you've served divorce papers on an abusive man, so I called, didn't ask them to come around, but it was all a bit muddled. Hopefully will have a peaceful night, then onto solicitor tomorrow.

sorry to hear of your awful time thats

well done for contacting police, idon't know quite how to manage it but it isn't worth taking noticeof the police that don't take this seriously. You have logged it and thats the main thing. You don't know what it might have averted had they not been there (even if they were confused, they were there!) It also shows him you are deadly serious.

those locks sseriously need changing. Ex partners have no rights to enter your home, and in your circumstances there doesn't seem any need when you can both go through this in your seperate spaces.

be safe xx

Thanks fi. I'm feelin really sorry for myself right now. I had a session with (expensive) counsellor last night who didn't seem to offer any insight. I'm fed up. I think my desire for someone to tell me what to do is legitimate! Fed up with people saying 'what do YOU want to do...' Obviously I want to get shot of him. Someone tell me how. I'm thinking perhaps I'll change solicitors as mine hasn't been in touch all week, I'm starting to think I shouldn't have to chase him. Or I could just leave town, make a dramatic statement. He's been sending emails about HRT again and telling me to get pills. Then saying he's depressed and he will get pills. I'm wondering about turning myself in to the police, I really was physically abusive to him on Sunday. And last night I left the house and ran down the street, he came running after me, I really jabbed him in the chest hard with my elbow as he escorted (pulled) me back to the house, I'd been intending to go sit in the car. I can't take this but don't know what to do!

OK point taken-- change locks I might call WA and see if I can talk to anyone, I don't think my solicitor would care if I changed the locks or not. And if he refuses to leave perhaps I will go out to the other house.

WA know what to tell women, what to do, or rather how to do what they need to be safe, and everyone's basic human right to feel safe. providing you have good services locally give your money to them instead, they do know what they are on about, and will support you in all manner of ways.

Him grabbing you and dragging you home by the arm is assault, you jabbing him in the chest (you a woman, and him dragging you, a man) isn't the same, this is the point of gendered abuse.

Keep ignoring his emails. As it gives him a direct line to manipulation, tell him you are blocking them and your wellbeing is none of his business, you are divorcing and its inappropriate. Then divert all his texts to another folder or simply block him. He [and you perhaps] still think that he has this right to engage with you on a personal level.

Ok thats I am going to be firm with you here. From a place of love.

A counsellor cannot tell you what to do - they are there to help guide you towards your own realisation. If their own opinion gets pushed across then they could get in trouble professionally. It was the same with my Health Visitor. I knew fine well that she though I should finish with FW and divorce him rather than constantly trying to fix things, because he was an abuser who wouldn't change, but she couldn't say that. Instead she said not very subtly! 'I know you'll do what's right for your kids'.

And if a counsellor told you what to do, confirmed he's abusive and you should leave asap, it wouldn't matter, you still wouldn't take it on board because you haven't squared it with yourself yet. And that's more what the counselling is for, to help you see yourself that his behaviour has been beyond unacceptable, he has abused you and the children for years, and that you don't need anyone's permission to leave.
Lots of people on here, on this thread and your own threads, have given counsel and advice (all of the LTB variety), but until you believe you can, until you believe you are allowed, it won't matter. He won't ever, ever give you permission to leave him. He's already telling you why you can't leave him even after being served.

And this is the problem - you are still giving out all the signals of not LTB. You served divorce papers but then you went and spent the weekend at the other house with him, because he said you had to. Buying his dad a birthday present because he said you had to. Reading his mad emails because you feel you should and letting him get inside your head. Until you get some distance - some proper distance, ie not engaging with him at all - you are not going to get to that point of realising you can do this, that you don't need permission, that it's your choice.

So here's someone telling you what to do. (I know you are seeing the solicitor today, so hopefully they will have told you some of this too.)

1. Stop engaging with him. Stop doing what he tells you to. Tell your friends you are divorcing him so you can't all socialise together. If they don't accept that, they are not friends.

1. Stop reading his emails/texts. Filter all his emails into a separate folder and let them fester there. Get a new phone and a new number. All discussions through solicitors from now on.

1. Call 101. Report his assault of you last night (dragging you back into the house). Tell them you already reported his harrasment of you by text but it wasn't dealt with properly. Admit to them (if it will make you feel better) that you also hit out at him in self-defence. Tell them he's made suicide threats and you are extremely scared of him. Ask if someone can go out and have a word with him, that you've had to have police involvement before because of his abuse. Don't take no for an answer.

1. Seek a non-mol order. He's proved he's not going to leave you alone. Without it, you will need to deal with him turning up any time he likes.

He's not going to just leave you alone. You need to be strong enough to create a barrier in between the two of you - for your own safety, but also to give your head a chance to think straight about all this. Only then will you have any chance of realising that he's truly abusive and you need to be away from him.

Here endeth the post. I know you know all this already, but you minimise so much because you are so entrenched in it. You need evacuating out of the war zone - you need to be your own advocate, your own UN here.

Cross-post with fi!

this Obviously I want to get shot of him

you have done this by issueing divorce papers, but without 'follow-through' - saying one thing doing another?

You are divorcing him - this doesn't make you friends any more, this doesn't mean any connection with him any more, you and him are now on opposite sides in your divorce that you own and took control of... big knickers on, sleeves rolled up, and away you go.

No WA entity will 'tell' you to leave, or judge an abused woman for going back. Abused women complain very loudly, and quite rightly about counsellors that question why the woman is putting up with it/hasn't left/went back 'let it go on for so long', etc. these are all things that no counsellor or WA would or should ever say.

You keep up the 'doing' of it, and your emotions will catch up when you are on the other side!

Thanks Pony and Fi. I spoke to my solicitor at lunchtime, who was quite cheery, I forwarded him a few of the emails. I told him that the police had said suggested that he stays in the other house but that a solicitor would have to arrange it. Hmmmm. Not sure that it warrants an occupation order. I haven't responded to anything today, to be honest after last night I am fed up. I suspect he's still at the house and I'm thinking about not going home as I have the car. I know that I know what to do but...! In a way, it's good that last night happened in such a logical way: 1) he told me to come out 2) I said no, I wasn't going to, and for him to stay there 3) he 'threatened' to come back (presumably to 'punish' me for not coming out) 4) I didn't come out (I didn't 'obey' him), he came back quite late and acted just as abusively as he normally does, perhaps even worse, to rub it in.

So I haven't responded to anything today. I knew it was sort of wrong to do the birthday gift but I was concerned with retaining the moral high ground (yeah I know...who cares) interestingly, I didn't hear anything about the gift, but this morning I've had texts and emails from him thanking me for having done it and that they really liked it. So, it IS just a control thing. EVERYTHING IS!!

It was such a contrast going from being in the house alone, which was great, to being there with him. The atmosphere totally soured! The bad weather doesn't help but it seems appropriate!

well done for speaking to your solicitor, you don't mention the advice? was the occupation order it? As that seems to make absolute sense as a direct result of that evenings abuse, you would be granted it instantly, do it! (I didn't tell you to dothat ) You have listed it all so clearly, and you acted appropriately by calling the police.

He will use your apparent compliance and agreemetn and involvement (buying gifts) as evidence of how could he be aware you were feeling this way etc. - apart from the divorce of course

so being in the house alone, 'which was great' ... seems the obvious thing now? Occupation order x 1

but do it without his knowledge and get the locks changed because you have to be safe from him.

Good point Fi regarding my supposed cooperation, I really hadn't thought of it that way . Friends have been saying I have been giving mixed messages, I am sure that I have but only because I have been trying to soften the blow. I think he will require a sledgehammer blow to make any impact at all, aside from the 'poor me' texts he's sent all day!

Solicitor hasn't got back to me yet, he usually responds by email late in the day.

he doesn't need a sledgehammer you just need to withdraw to safety so he is forced to face reality, that actually you are back in controlof your own life, not him!

Please believe me, there is nothing, nothing, nothing, you can tell him. You can only act to keep safe, and really hoping your solicitor is going to do that for you on the legal front, or what else are they for?

Solicitor emailed, said nothing could be taken as violence or threats but he thinks the constant textin and phone is harassment. H is now expecting me home. I think I will have to be clear with him that I don't want to talk.

I do feel somewhat let down which is ridiculous! H expects me home, says we need to talk but I know he just wants to lecture me, he's done some work on the kitchen today (IKEA stuff) and the implications going to be that he gets things done, he achieves while I sit around at my boring job and did nothing. But I don't want to talk to him, don't want to engage, after last night I don't want yo be in that position. Sorry if this sounds like deja vu...it does to me.

thats I really don't see how you will be able to keep living in the same house together, it will become a living hell for you. I know you have two houses, but he will not (I doubt) agree to stay in one and leave the other to you. Maybe time to resurrect the rental flat for six months, if a non-mol order isn't on the cards? You need the space from him, it's essential. Hope you are doing ok this evening.

Thanks pony... I think you're right, I think he won't go if he thinks it will make my life easier or more pleasant. But. It is early to gauge his reactions, tonight has been sht. I got home from work, he'd make a huge mess in the kitchen from building work and he immediately told him to clean it up...then I went upstairs and saw he'd torn up the letter and divorce petition. Then he 'demanded' I make dinner (I was going to any way). So total sht behaviour, not contrite or sorry in any way, which is actually good.

He's demanding coffee now, and dessert, I said...NO. Now off to other room. This won't work!

Sorry to be so thread-hogging today.

PS solicitor is I think angling for a non mol, probably to go with serving of papers. Could have done this months ago then?

is it really worth wasting time issuing any papers again, he is completely aware of the nature of the papers he was served just get a non-mol, and quckly on the back of his actions the other eve. By the time your solicitor 'is I think angling' and actually sorts its out you could have it done in a day.

WA warned of escalation after issuing divorce papers to abuser, your solicitor is not doing much? Days are going by and he is still there, the divorce being ignored by you both and your solicitor has been your solicitor for a long time.

No need to say sorry its better you thrash this out and like you say, This won't work - thats right