What to do when the (very near almost) perfect man asks you to marry...

[Ehhn]

... But you feel panicked and upset at the thought of getting married/having a wedding? Towards the end of this mammoth post, I get a bit tmi.

My partner and I have been Together 8 years. He is handsome, successful, but, most importantly, kind and supportive (walking out of a meeting in London because my horse had died suddenly, bringing home chocolate unasked when I've had a bad day, etc etc). We share common interests and have our own, separate hobbies (eventing and cricket). We have the same values about money, eating out, travel, interior design, cleanliness, and family (ie. Our family values), and he is supportive but not threatened by my academic success (PhD), unlike many men I've known/met. He gets along with my family and will sacrifice things he enjoys to do things he ought (attending family occasions etc). He is not a big drinker, same as me, but we both can get on it for a big rugby night. I support him going on rugby tour with the lads, he is happy for me to go off with the girls on mine. I'm immensely proud of his outlook/behaviour in life, his treatment of others, his business success, and his sporting prowess. He is quietly feminist too, which is rare in an Australian rugby boy. My mum - never married, feminist, business owner, thinks of him as her son.

However... The thought of getting married fills me with horror. I'm trying to get used to the idea, as it is very important to my dp, but this is one area in which we differ. I hate the expense, the show, the idea of being bound to someone so severely. I like the fact that I can choose to walk away, but I don't because I love him and want to be with him, rather than be bound (almost) regardless of how I feel.
Each congratulations from people has stuck in my throat. I have been reticent telling people. I feel awkward and defensive when people start asking me about the wedding. I don't want to be a wife. I like being a partner. But my dp is so desperate to get married. He has very little family and he wants to make his own.
I keep having dreams of having sex with other people (my old ex and a rugby player on whom I have a bit of a crush at my club) and leaving my dp. It's upsetting me deeply and I wake up disturbed by my dreams.

The one thing I've been hesitant about saying as it is tmi, is the sex factor. My dp is very handsome, but a blonde, body hairless, slight figure (American teen idol/surfer physique, but 30 years old!) - exactly my type when I met him at 21. My sexual taste since then has evolved - I now am attracted to solid, hairy, dark men (Aidan turner types). I also am quite kinky and like to be dominated, but my partner is totally vanilla. Added to this - the final major TMI. My partner is somewhat under endowed. He is just about average in length, but is rather slender in girth. I think him very good looking, I love and admire him, but I don't desire him - I don't have that groin tingling stab of desire and I have to work very hard to get myself ready for sex. I wonder how much this is affecting my thoughts/dreams?

What to do? I love him and trust him in a way that I never have with others. He is the perfect partner in all ways apart from the physical. I have met a few men whom I fancy more, but I've always known that they were cheaters/insecure/jealous/controlling/vindictive/manipulative. I'm naturally attracted to dominating types, which makes for great sex but terrible relationships. Despite how I may come across, I want to be with my DP.

I would really welcome others' experiences, advice, and also any questions that might help me work through this. Thank you.

This may sound a bit fruitcake but what came to mind when I read your op was the idea of a primary vow of some kind that you are now not conscious of.

Children are linear thinkers and perhaps you made a strong resolution at some point and it is now tripping you up. Your mother seems to have very strong views indeed and perhaps you have imbibed those second hand - they served her but might not serve you iyswim. Your powerful sexual fantasies don't appear to line up with your mum's very strong feminist beliefs eg. Plus your brute of a fathe (and brothers)... There's a lot to work out here.

Therapy is playing Sherlock and I do think it would be valuable for you to bring into your conscious mind the various strands to this with a trained professional. As for what you'd say, you just get the first piece of string and pull, see where it leads. It's the therapist's job to guide it, you just bring the raw material.

For you and your family marriage is not the norm so no wonder you can't get your head around it. Like someone from a dysfunctional family has to learn how to have a normal relationship, you may have to reassess your views on marriage. Not that I'm saying your family are disfunctional.

The other thing that occurred to me was your view of love, the book Women who love too much (sounds a bit naff but it was interesting) talks about 2 different types of love, eros and something else, can't remember what they called it but basically the fairytale type love you get in flings and then longer lasting love. Sounds like you're looking for the 1st kind. You'll probably be able to find the relevant bit on Google books without actually buying it ;-)

Also there is no difference between marriage and a long term relationship, it's just psychological

Can you imagine what life would really be like without your partner? Need to seriously think about that!

If you're interested... I just Googled "women who love too much Eros" and it came up with a link to Google books, start on page 50

I was in a very similar situation in the past. My ex was just perfect - handsome, intelligent, very loving and caring, thoughtful, loyal, generous...you name it. But sex is extremely important in a relationship for me, and sadly we didn't match. As pp said, he was perfect, but not perfect for me. I didn't get that butterfly feeling in my stomach and basically didn't want him sexually. As you say, he was too kind and gentle, and even though it's great, it's not great all the time (sexually I mean). I did tell him and he tried his best to change, but that didn't come naturally, and was even more of a turn off for me. I left eventually... People were shocked as to how could I possibly let go of such a wonderful man, but I knew what was a deal breaker. Then I met my DP, and after almost 5 years together, I can't wait for him to come home from work... He is also caring and thoughtful and loyal.

However, I was lucky to meet him. Suppose I didn't. I probably would have regretted deeply, because when it comes to long term relationship/marriage there are lots of other things than sex that are tremendously important. So leaving is also a risk, that you may not meet a 'fully' perfect man, there will be always something wrong, and you'll have to compromise anyway.

It is complicated OP, I agree with you. But as for the wedding, that's easily sorted - you can have a simple one, and always remember there's a divorce, so it's not like you are bound forever.

Hmm. I'm beginning to develop a strategy based on the wonderful advice and opinions here.

I think some personal therapy for me. Some sexual counselling for us both.

I used to have a lot of desire to have sex with him, although the sex was never amazing. I had a lot of sexual partners when I was 19-21 after losing my virginity late-ish (nearly 18) to a great but long distance boyfriend. I was seeking male attention/affirmation and enjoyed making them want me (I'm much less messed up now!), or getting them. It was very empty and unsatisfying. When I met my dp, I was dating someone else, who was more sexually compatible, but I never felt the intense emotional connection I do with dp.
My dp and I had a break 4 years ago. I met someone else who introduced me to the darker side of sexuality, which I enjoyed enormously. I have never felt that ache of longing so profoundly. But I also remember looking at this guy and thinking, after 3 months, I don't love you. We broke up. I got back together with dp, whom I love properly.

I miss dp when he isn't here. He is the first person I turn to in a crisis. I get fluttery feelings in my heart. I think he looks adorable when he sleeps. When he hurts, I hurt. I'm so proud of him, and I admire and value him. We are very comfortable around each other naked and cuddling. I just don't get that stab of desire, but we can perhaps work on that.

However, i also take the advice of LTP (leave the prince). I will give it a year of full on work, on myself and on our sex life. If you have any other questions, please keep them coming. Where I may not have answered you directly, I have nonetheless reflected on what you've asked and found it helpful.

OP, you sound really grounded and self-reflective. I think you've made a really sensible and rightheaded decision, and I hope it turns out well for you.

Reading your latest post, my feeling is that if you like things as they are, enjoy them as they are. I still wouldn't press ahead with marriage against your gut feeling.

It's worth bearing in mind that your gut feeling may well change...and also, your DP might not wait around for you if he is desperate for marriage. Nothing is set in stone. Enjoy today.

I think you're terribly fond of the boy, but you don't love him enough to want to marry him any more.

He sounds nice, and so do you. Let him go so you can both find somebody you actually fancy

I agree with saucy jack - I really don't think anyone should have counselling to talk themselves into marriage ( or sex for that matter !)

The counselling wouldn't be for Op to talk herself into marriage/sex ! Don't be daft. Counselling would be to clarify who she is, where she's at, what she wants. That's it. Counselling isn't coercive!

For me, the lack of physical attraction would be enough to end it. This is hugely important.

Don't settle, would be my advice.

I'm aware what counselling is, I was being flippant. I just don't think she should bother, she doesn't fancy him, she has talk herself into having sex with him and doesn't find him physically attractive plus the idea of marriage makes her panic. Personally I wouldn't waste my money on counselling, it's not fair on either of them.

I'm afraid of an institution that I regard as patriarchal and often destructive

Totally with you on that. How Pagans do it seems more Natural and a genuine celebration of Joy rather than Controls laid down by priest, state or deity of dubious enlightenment. Is it an annual renewal or is that a myth? Even so, would I do it? No. I get that there are really really valid reasons why such joinings up should be legally established for material protection if it needs to end. In which case what I mourn is the death of honour. But maybe it was rarely born. Another debate altogether, I suspect.

The best relationships I know are long term unmarrieds.
A ceremony with legal hooks kind of makes life together a matter where choice has been curtailed and regulated - no matter how kindly - unless you go into another ceremony to give you back your Will to Choose Otherwise. I'm sure that's not quite right thinking - but it's pretty close to how I feel. Maybe you too?

I also agree with what Summer said - He's a nice guy, the sex is crap. I don't think you should compromise on that. And it won't get better...

What YOU want, need and choose are the priority. Sacrifices are really not required. Live by YOUR word and Will.

I don't think you should marry him because you are not sexually compatible. Marriage is extremely hard and like other OPs have said being sexually attracted to your partner gets you through some tough times.

I think you need to be brave enough to hold on for someone you really fancy so that you can enjoy the pleasure of having someone you love and fancy rotten. I don't think you will survive the tough times if you are sexually incompatible.

1. Legal advice for both of you on the implications of marriage re existing assets, if it's still something you're thinking about. [Also, consider legal advice re wills/other provision for each other that replicates what marriage would achieve, if this will reassure your partner and generate some thinking time/space for you]

1. Have a read about ethical non-monogamy. It might not be for you, but there are lots of useful ideas re communication with partners/owning your own feelings and so on that come from polyamorous communities/books/websites etc. I got to polyamory from wanting to do kink without being in any relationship at all.

1. He must have known your views about marriage before proposing to you. Why do you think he did, when he knew you didn't want to marry?

1. Very few people would need to know whether you're married or not - your pension provider possibly, DWP for bereavement benefits/some pension entitlement, possibly HMRC. Nobody else needs to know - nothing to stop you talking about your partner and allowing people to assume you're not married, given this fits your political view point better.

I'm sorry but I think some of the advice here is plain scary and misleading. For a start sexual preferences are forever changing, writing this poor man off and telling her to leave a wonderful man on the basis that they are having differences is ridiculous.

OP it sounds to me you are experiencing relationship anxiety. Your scared to commit due to deep seated fears about marriage and so your projecting those fears onto your OH.

Christ what is the world coming to when women are advising each other to leave perfectly good men over issues that can be resolved. Just wondering if these same women wHo prioritise sex so high would leave a man if he suddenly couldn't have sex for health reasons anymore.

The opinions on here are very biased at times, if a man complains his wife isn't giving him Sex due to childbirth etc hes selfish. Yet if a woman complains she's concerned about sex she's told to leave straight away as it's a deal breaker. How is anybody to find true love if they go about it in selfish ways? Yes everybodies needs are important but true love bends and grows to accomodate each other's needs.

Ask yourself If he left u right now OP, would you feel beside yourself or would you feel free.

Your dreams are telling you something.

Don't compromise to please him cos he wants to get married. You obviously don't. You will only end up resentful and frustrated.

You sound like you have a great relationship together. Why not continue as you are? People put far too much importance on a ritual - mostly due to societal pressure - that doesn't suit everyone (otherwise there would be no divorce).

I freaked out good and proper when I got engaged to my DH. My advice is just delay until and unless this is really what you want. There's no rush.

It is very unfortunate when health reasons affect a couple's sex life but it doesn't mean that you should marry someone that you are not sexually attracted to in the first place. I wouldn't marry someone I was not sexually attracted to. I was sexually attracted to my EXH and we still split up. It happens but I still would not marry someone I was not sexually attracted to.

They have been together 8 years and I think she has given it her best shot.

No-one has said it's a deal breaker that this guy doesn't satisfy the desires of OP. No-one has "told" her what to do. Some of us have hovered around the idea of being anti-marriage one way or another and most have suggested (albeit on the basis of personal experience) that the OP should do whatever she feels right for her. That's the journey, isn't it?

Your last question though missqwerty is a good one.
Though I'd re-word it t'other way round *heh

It feels like the OP is very vulnerable at the moment and there is a lot of bad advice going her way that's all.

So sexually they are different, but who's to say all your hubbies won't decide they want different in the future. How would you feel if they jumped ship and upgraded solely on those reasons. If couples are compatable mostly and there are no red flags and they love each other. .. isn't it best they grow together as a couple rather then upping and leaving to chase rainbows thinking the grass is greener.

But they aren't compatible mostly - she doesn't fancy him, doesn't want to get married, doesn't find him physically attractive and isn't satisfied by him in bed. Those are pretty major things in my book.

Missqwerty - I would not advise anyone, male or female, to marry someone they don't fancy and find dull in bed. It has nothing to do with the gender of the OP.

Only you can answer the issue about sex. I have to say though, I wouldn't be that thrilled if I was getting married and my husband-to-be wanted me to go to sex therapy with him. To me, sex therapy is if the sex is really bad, or non-existent, not for people who would like to explore their darker side and their partner just isn't into that, I don't think sex therapy is going to make him more into it and god forbid if he finds out what you think of his size. Really, I just don't see how you can make someone want to change that much when there's nothing wrong with him- he's attractive, likes vanilla sex, that's how he is. He doesn't need fixing, you need to decide if he's for you.

Misquerty I think the point is once you have children or are married, the options for getting out of the relationship are a whole heap more painful and devastating for others than if she really thinks this through now.

I don't know what to make of this post. You sound like you are great friends, but often very friend-based relationships can lack that passion (if you read John Gottman's work).