My sister has asked for a £4k loan

[Sweetheartyparty76]

I'm 38 with no kids and my partner and I have fairly good jobs. My sister is 2 years younger than me with 5 kids and husband who can only find temporary work. They are yrying to sell their house and move into council accomodation but until they do have to pay rent and mortgage. Their house is for sale for £80k and their mortgage is for £55k. They also have a lot of debt and a bad credit record. They have borrowed from my sisters MIL but they are estranged now. Our parents are dead so I'm the only one she can turn to.

She sent me a message asking to borrow £4k so she can move into their new house 'comfortably'. It is not an inconsiderate sum for me. We are also in the process of moving house and our joint savings will be our deposit.

XBIL wanted money once. He had already built up debt, been bailed out by his mother, then did it again and went bankrupt anyway. (Talking £30+K here).

Based on the fact that he had already screwed his own mother over, I said no. XH wasn't happy but we couldn't afford to lose the money that he wanted to "borrow".

You're not being mean, you just don't have it to give, based on your own circumstances.

It isn't illegal for those kids to share a room, it's just under council regulations they would be 'entitled' to an extra room, to separate them. Absolutely no law against it though. I hope she hasn't told you that to lay it on thicker that she needs the money to move. I'd be saying no and do not feel guilty over it.

No

Is a complete sentence.

I'd say 'no, we're not in a position to loan you £4k but I can write off the £xx I loaned you xx years ago if that helps?'

that way you're reminding her that you're not a mug and saying 'no' in certain terms

Thanks everyone. Thats quite a resounding no. I hate that she has put me in this position. The annoying thing is they are just so passive. I've tried to help them with cash flow forecasts, hmrc tax matters, cv assistance but it doesn't last. I have lent money to my DSIS and mostly she does repay me, especially big amounts say £100. The odd £20 not so much. I really do believe she will give me it back but it may be too late for when i need it most.
In regard to the MIL debt, it doesn't sound great. From what i gather she is a pretty toxic person so in their eyes they see it as karma. She has said some pretty shitty things but she can't be that bad if she has lent them money.
We have 3 attempts on the NHS in Co Durham. I'm not sure if we will try privately of it doesn't work but i might think differently at the end of our treatment.
I just don't think i can make the decision without telling my DP. This money is for our shared life together and she has put me in a terrible position x

After reading the first 50 message page, my answer is a very firm no. You already need the money for other things and will never see it again.

And guessed straight off they were near me from the value of the house (worth more than our 2 bed terrace, mind!)

No of course you need to tell DP.

I think an earlier poster had it right, keep it light and react with "poor you, but I was about to ask you for the £xxx as we really need it for deposit". Deflecting. Sounds like she is chancing her arm tbh, and she won't be surprised that you don't have £4k going spare.

It's only a terrible position if you feel obliged to give her £4k for no better reason than she asked. Don't overthink, of course you don't have that much to lend out, let alone give. If you texted her to request £4k do you think she would feel she'd been put in a terrible position? My guess is not, she'd just say 'WTF. Of course not!' and not feel under any sort of obligation.

Never a borrower nor a lender be.

It will not end well; don't do it.

It's too much money, for FA. She can sell her house and use that money. You need it now and you need to look after your needs first.

Gosh, why would you even consider making this decision without talking to your DP? Can you imagine how he would feel if he found out you'd jeopardised your deposit, given away money he owns as well as you, to help out this feckless pair? At least give it to charity and do some good with it.

You don't think she will be able to make a karma case for you if you ask for the money back when it doesn't suit her to give it? The question of the MIL is awful - whatever the woman is like she has lent them money. They are choosing not to pay it because she's got the hump they've been in contact with her ex-husband.

You are not responsible for your sister.

You have already tried to help but it hasn't worked. They have to be willing to help themselves. I'm sorry but they sound like a lost cause atm.

Are you thinking of not telling your DP because deep down you know how wrong it would be to "lend" (give) your sister a huge amount of money which you and your DP need for house purchase and possible extra IVF?

You need to somehow let go of this feeling of responsibility and guilt towards your sister. She is an adult and making her own (irresponsible) decisions.

Have they re paid the loan from her MIL? That would influencia me, but if you cannot afford To give her the 4K then say no.

Sorry, missed a couple of Pagés

If they decided not to repay a previous loan then they won't repay a loan from you. Don't lend her a penny.

They need to look up the definition of "karma" and I think that you should look up "drama triangle".

Just ignore the text.

We've helped a family member throughout the years with lots of money and support.

I've now put my food down and said no more (DH would happily continue) because they don't help themselves. In the good times they'll puss their money away and not save, when things get stuff they not rein in and be cautious as they expect things to pick up quickly and they don't.

I've taken the attitude to help those who help themselves.

It sounds like she has no intention of learning to manage money, you've already helped them loads more than you should have needed to.

From what i gather she is a pretty toxic person so in their eyes they see it as karma.

She took the loan. Breaking your word and not honouring a debt has nothing to do with how toxic or otherwise your MIL is.

If she stops talking to you over smaller things than this and if she thinks so little of repaying a debt, I'm afraid she doesn't sound very pleasant. She might have a nice personality but her underlying character is much less nice.

The MIL was not toxic enough to stop them borrowing from her but too toxic to be repaid. Right.

Let's hope karma bites them back.

They may see it as 'karma'. I wonder what 'karma' will come their way for taking money from someone they claim to dislike so much, the two facedness of that and the planning to shaft her.

Nasty people will always find a way to justify their nasty behaviour instead of facing up to the fact they're cunts.

They need to learn some fiscal responsibility. Comfort is a luxury that you earn, it isn't an entitlement. That 4 grand will give you a little more comfort in your future.
When you have a child your instincts sharpen, it's primeval and you will be so glad, that you have a little extra cash to give your child all that is within your powers.