So, DH is 40 and acting like a teenager (and not in a good way)

[StupidIdioticChildishPrick]

Basically, I have just discovered by accident that DH is lying to me. It's not another woman (as far as I know, and I think it v unlikely), it's a desire to go and do fun things and not have me shout at him because I feel like he's not pulling his weight.

He is self-employed and I do his admin (I have another job too). I was looking in his work email for a purchase order when I came across something that looked like it was about rugby tickets. He has form for arranging to spend an entire day and evening at a rugby match and not telling me until the very last second because he knows that I get fed up about the amount of time he spends doing that sort of thing. He has been to about six or seven rugby matches in the last few months, which isn't a huge amount of time but he is so frequently away from home at weekends working that it is really sad that he doesn't want to spend at least some of these days with DD when he has the chance. I've never told him not to go or anything, just pointed out that it would be nice to do things as a family occasionally and that DD would like to see him. She is 7 and misses him a lot when he is away.

Anyway, I read the email fully intending to have a go at discussion with him about the rugby and find that this time it isn't rugby, it's a sailing weekend away with the boys. Fine(ish), so far. Bit pissed off that yet again he is clearly waiting to tell me until the last minute and planning to tell him that, but basically I'm OK with it (though I would have made it clear again that I would just like the courtesy of being asked in case I have commitments myself and again, what about DD who would love to spend a whole weekend with him at home).

Then it got a bit worse. I looked at his online diary (this is fine with him, not snooping, he has shared it with me and knows I look at it a lot as he is frequently away from home and travels all over the country and I like to know when he's going to be back etc). He has blocked out those two days with the name of a job on them. I then had a conversation with him about what jobs were coming up and he flat out lied about what he was going to be doing on those days - told me it would be an awful difficult job, in our home city but he would be working all night etc so he wouldn't make it home.

I didn't say anything. I was just so shocked that he would actually lie to me like that. I get that he doesn't want me to shout at him, but honestly, is this not both really deliberately underhand and also just so childish? It is just like a teenager claiming they're going to be at Jane's house so they can secretly go to a party they know you'd disapprove of.

How bad do people think this is? Should I just get over myself and suck it up? Should I confront him? Should I wait until it's over and see if he does in fact tell me about it in advance, or at all? I feel like he's not the person I thought he was. I have since asked him if there's anything he needs to tell me, quite lightly so he didn't suspect I knew and he said not. He booked this in about 12 days ago when we were actually on holiday together so not like he couldn't have mentioned it at the time.

I know compared to some stories on here this is trivial. But I'm just honestly so so shocked. I feel sick.

I do go out and see my friends etc, when he's here or I have a babysitter, so he doesn't get ALL the free time! But I tend to do my own stuff in the evenings rather than when I could be spending time with DD because, you know, I like her and I like doing stuff with her. He does also do domestic stuff when he is here (laundry, gardening, whatever), it's just that he isn't here much.

Do you think I should stop this now and confront him? Or do you think I should wait and see if he does in fact come clean?

That is a very interesting post, APlaceOnTheCouch.

If it were me I would kick his arse out tonight, I would have to otherwise I'd be done for murder.

OK, I'm gonna go out on a limb here in a mo but first;

He shouldn't be lying to you about what he is up to, it's not on. Around Christmas time I was invited to go on a long weeked fishing trip with my best mate. The first thing I did was check with my wife, of course it's all fine and in both of our diaries. She treats me with the same respect and if she gets invited out the first thing she does is check with me.
At the end of the day, we have a household to run and a family to look after so we each need to know what we are up to.
Neither of us are ever turned down, it's just a matter of respect.
Lying to you is bad out of order.

But maybe you should also ask yourself why he is lying to you.

"it's a desire to go and do fun things and not have me shout at him because I feel like he's not pulling his weight"

"he knows that I get fed up about the amount of time he spends doing that sort of thing"

"And I am livid, and I am raging"

"I am actually seriously considering kicking him out"

"I do take issue with him very regularly about the swanning off to the rugby thing"

"I think what lies at the heart of this is his desire not to be shouted at"

"he would say that I am too untidy and shout at him a lot"

These are all YOUR words as to how you react if he wants to go out. Now ask yourself this...why is he lying to me?
See what I mean? You need to learn a different more grown up approach rather than shouting and ranting at him!

"just pointed out that it would be nice to do things as a family occasionally and that DD would like to see him. She is 7 and misses him a lot when he is away"

What on earth are you trying to do here? Blackmailing him with your DD?

"his work necessarily means that he's away a lot"

Does he really work this hard providing for you and your DD? does he not deserve some 'downtime'

Harsh, I know but you know what...I think you BOTH need to have a real good look at yourselves and sort it out. STOP fucking around trying to drop hints and get him to confess. Both of you need to have a proper conversation and that does not mean shouting or ranting at him. Talk like adults!

I would wait to see if he came clean. At the moment if you confront him he could say he made a mistake in his diary or he was booking the sailing weekend for someone else or . . . add in your own list of vaguely plausible excuses

His automatic response to your question was to lie so if you confront him he is probably going to lie too.

Wait and see what happens. Then on the weekend concerned, I would visit the job or alternatively go to the sailing course to see that he is there. You then know that he has lied and can choose your next action accordingly. either by leaving a bag of his clothes for him at the sailing centre or by kicking him out or by not being at home when he gets back I think you need to jolt him out of his complacency about his behaviour.

I'd be showing up on the day they were meeting and act all surprised pretending I took dd out for the day. I would then very calmly tell him I don't want him home and I need some space, no shouting no tears and that will worry him even more.

I do feel for you OP. It's horrible when you find out you are being lied to and I'm not surprised you're upset.

The fundamental issues seem to be that he is lying to you on a regular basis, he doesn't have any respect for you and isn't particpating in family life.

Might I be right in thinking you have to do all the day to day stuff - cooking, cleaning etc - otherwise it doesn't get done?

What would happen if you said to him, calmly, "I know you're going away to x this weekend, why did you lie to me about it?"

Obviously you don't need to answer me on here but just something to think about.

I wouldn't have a bar of a man who liked going to lapdancing clubs, but I think being truthful about going to a lapdancing club is way less of a problem than lying about going sailing.

I am sick of being taken for granted just because his work necessarily means that he's away a lot.

Does it, though?

I mean now you know that he pretends to be working when he's actually indulging in yet more leisure time.

There really is no point in having a family member who doesn't give a shit about the rest of you and who lies to take advantage of you.

He has always had "the opportunity to tell the truth".

He just didn't because he's dishonest, selfish, and thinks he is more important than you or his daughter.

Don't make her grow up in a house with a chauvinist prick who treats women as actual second class citizens.

talking like adults is a good suggestion if you're both acting like adults and have the same ground rules. But the OP's DH has shown he lies and uses his fear of confrontation to avoid any potentially unpleasant/serious conversations.

The OP can't have an adult conversation on her own.

Relationship counselling might help the OP and her DH to communicate better but it can't work miracles if one party is lying/disrespectful/manipulative (delete as appropriate) That's why, imo, the OP has to find out exactly how far her DH will take this.

If her DH is deliberately lying about that weekend then he has to work to rebuild the trust in their relationship. Because, let's be blunt, the OP accidentally uncovered this lie. She has no idea if there have been others too. The OP hasn't done anything wrong. Her DH has.

My OH used to hide things from me (commitments, purchases etc) to avoid confrontation. I found out, we discussed it, and it doesn't happen any more.

Most likely he's between a rock and a hard place: his mates are saying 'you're under her thumb' and he's afraid of you ranting at him. So he lies and hides.

This doesn't have to be a LTB situation IMHO. You just need an assertive conversation that establishes boundaries with consequences. It's not acceptable for him to hide things and lie to you. Ever.

In future, if he wants to do something with his mates, he discusses it with you before saying yes. Providing you're happy he's fulfilling his marital and parental responsibilities (spending time with DD and you, helping around the house etc) you'll say yes.

He needs to know that if he breaks that agreement in any way you may LTB.

BathtimeFunkster said it all much better than I could.

I think the lying is an issue however he is lying to get what he wants, which is time away from the family. It seems that his life is out of balance from your perspective so you need to have a conversation. I do agree with earlier OP that suggests no anger or rage as this will just escalate and I doubt you will get the result you want,which is for him to see that you want a more balanced family life.

Ahead of a discussion could you calculate time on work, home duties, family time, couple time, childcare, hobbies?

My dh would be slightly similar - avoids confrontations - however he needed me to point out calmly how little time he is actually around due to work trips. It was genuinely news to him as he was in the default position of accepting offers without thinking of the impact at home. He didn't straight away say "sorry, you're right" but his behaviour changed and now we have open debates about our diaries and if he is away what impact that will have on me. He will now choose assignments and social trips, like sailing more thoughtfully.

If I did this to my Dh it would rock the very foundations of our relationship. He would never let it go. I would have to rebuild any trust I could brick by brick. A brazen, barefaced, to your face lie. What if something happened to your DD (god forbid) and he couldn't answer his phone because he is on a boat somewhere instead of a "tricky" job in the same town as you?

Bang out of order.

Drew are you saying that it's fine that the OP's DH hardly sees his daughter, is away a lot with work and yet still wants to spend even more time away doing hobbies? While he's away working and going on fishing trips, who looks after the DD? When does the OP get downtime? Or does a woman not need any downtime?

Drew, there are a lot of misrepresentations in your post and I don't want to spend ages posting tons of personal details, so I'm not going to.

However I will say, how on earth is pointing out that DD would like to spend a day with him now and again blackmail? It's just that he does not appear to notice that spending time with her just being at home (I'm not talking about days out, just maybe a nice lunch and chatting and a potter to the park or whatever) is really important to her and to their relationship.

Being away from home is not, btw, synonymous with working 24/7. The people he works with are the same ones he is going sailing with so he obviously doesn't have a problem with hanging out with them, and they seem to spend plenty of time in the pub/nice restaurants when working. I know, I do the admin and see the receipts. The shouting is, while undesirable in general, kind of a red herring. There has been plenty of talking too (except he will never actually engage with the issues).

I have far less downtime than him over the last few months, btw. I also have a job, as well as doing the majority of the home stuff and childcare. He is not the only wage earner in the house.

My instinct is to wait and see too, I think.

And I think he would probably bluster and say he was going to tell me, really he was, etc if I asked him now.

I do all the cooking/house admin/organisation but he does do a fair share of cleaning and gardening etc when he's at home.

To add, Drew, while you're banging on about the DH "providing" for the OP and her DD it might be worth remembering that the OP has a job, and also works for her DH and also does most of the childcare. So, actually who is working harder, and who is the one who needs downtime?

Most likely he's between a rock and a hard place: his mates are saying 'you're under her thumb' and he's afraid of you ranting at him. So he lies and hides.

Your mates teasing you only counts as a "rock", and your wife being pissed off with you only counts as a "hard place" is you are a basically weak person with no integrity.

A adult who deserves to be allowed to use up valuable oxygen the rest of us could be using needs to be a lot less shite than that.

tobytoes - Your solution "act all surprised pretending I took dd out for the day" entails deception and lies. How is that any better than OP's DH's actions????? " wrongs and all that....

I am pretty sure he hasn't done it before. I do all the invoicing and company admin (as well as my other job).

*2 wrongs and all that....

He doesn't tell you until the last minute because you disapprove. I can't see why isn't allowed time to enjoy his life. He works hard and should be allowed to do leisure activities. He's behaving like a teenager because that's how he is being treated. Why not find some activities you enjoy.

Who will look after the DD while the DH and OP are both doing activities they enjoy Vivienne?

I'm not going to act all surprised btw.

If I wait to see what he says, I will use FindMyIphone to get his location (which will be a long way from where he told me he would be as we have no actual sea anywhere near this city). See, this is so stupid. I know all his passwords etc because he always tells me them so I can eg access work emails to get ticket info or flight info or purchase orders or whatever. How on earth did he think he would get away with it?

would you say he wanted to be married with a child/children in the first place?
i'm only asking as that might give you a clue to his attitude now.

i would print off everything you have found on the computer so that he can't gaslight.

he seems very selfish.
if he won't engage in an adult conversation about his selfishness, would you move towards a separation?

I don't object to him having fun. I object to him always choosing to have fun instead of spending time with his only child!

I'm not sure how I can misrepresent you when I have quoted directly from your posts but...

Deal with the issue how ever you see fit, it's your family, you know them all best.

If it was me I wouldn't play games trying to catch him out or trying to get a confession out of him, that's just as childish.
I'd tell him outright that you know he is off on a jolly and when he gets back there will be some explaning to do and there will be changes!