EA ex - handover contact - stunt pulled and I'm upset!

[ohsotired45]

SOrry to start another EA thread but our old ones got a bit buried and long.

I had to do handover with DD with Ex on easter Monday as there was no nursery/holiday club. I agreed that he would pull up, and I would pop her in the back seat, strap her in and not engage in conversation. I have a minimal contact order in place and he knows I am getting therapy and awaiting a group at WA.

Instead, he turned up and got out of the car - and then I noticed he'd brought his pregnant girlfriend with him, who was clearly observing things from her seat. I have never met her, nor do I want to. Not because I'm jealous of her, but because he was such a sh!t to me when DD was born and things were hard - it's very painful to think of his being a dad again and if he's being nice to to her, why wasn't he nice to me? Not to mention they are still living in what was my home. However he twists that and just tries to make out that I'm jealous. I'm really not - I don't want to be with him, he repulses me - but there is a lot of hurt and loss of what I had hoped for as a family.

He didn't even have the courtesy to tell me he was wanting to do this, and I'm fairly certain he did it on purpose to hurt me.

I did not say a word or cause a scene, and gave my DD lots of hugs and kisses and said I would leave him to it. Thank god I was wearing sunglasses.

I gave it an hour and then sent a polite, but firm email sating he had violated the terms of our agreed handover which he knew I was uncomfortable with in the first place. I have said that if it's a bank holiday, it's up to him to find a neutral ground for us so we don't have to see each other.

I was firm but polite, but not a reply yet. It was his birthday yesterday so no doubt he is sulking that I've somehow ruined that.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. I feel like I did the right thing to stand up to him and call a spade a spade, but it's playing on my mind as to whether I should have waited longer before I sent it. I don't know. The silence sucks. It was such a thoughtless, mean stunt that I felt very indignant and wanted to nip it in the bud.

The ironic thing is, he kind of offered an olive branch last week re: the letter I sent him about the EA and said that he wanted to try and make things better, and let's talk when I'm ready. I was a fool for briefly believing we might have a rational conversation. (I did say that I didn't see how a very difficult conversation like that could happen, unless we used a safe space eg therapist - but that I also did not want to hear and excuses, non apologies or justifications)

ALlo, she was poorly with vomitiing bug while we were away for a few days, and I worked up the courage to ring him and let her have a good night chat as she'd been a bit scared of the illness.

I can't trust him. I'm too nice, aren't I?

ARSE!

Very late so gong to bed, any thoughts gratefully taken on board. Night x

Thing is, this man is an abuser. It won't do any good to try to have a 'reasonable' conversation with him, because he isn't a reasonable person. He's a shit. That wasn't an olive branch, that was bait, to reel you back in so he can abuse you further.
The only way to deal with inadequate wanky men like this is to keep as much distance as possible, be remote but polite when any interaction is unavoidable and, if they start to push at boundaries, react with mildly amused contempt, like you would if a puppy shat on the carpet.

Solidgoldbrass I appreciate the frank words.

The thing is, I have done a lot to try and get a protective buffer sorted and block his attempts at control. I am thankfully a lot stronger than I was 2 years ago when I left, although I have been very up & down with depression. We have a minimal contact in order in place, and emails are strictly about DD's care.

The "olive branch" hook happened because we're having to arrange two birthday parties because I refuse to put myself in a painful social situation. I did say no to it but you're right, it still tugged at me. Probably because I would love an apology.

I simply cannot believe that he would use my dd like that, who is too young to know what was going on, and act all cheerful & tell her to call out "bye mummy!" as I was walking off and make me turn back around, trying to hide my tears.

What a complete arse.

You are being too nice.

Of course you shouldn't have responded to the email, but you're living and learning. Next time, you will get somebody else to do it.
Could women's Aid help you with that? or a babysitter? Or a neighbour?

My x was an abusive man and I think we had to go about 18 months no contact at all. He spent all of that time fighting with me though. I was adamant that until he calmed down and accepted the fact that I'd left him, we couldn't begin to talk about handovers (which my parents took in turns thankfully). he never accepted that he was abusive of course!

do you have a brother or a friend who would do the handover for you?

Totally agree with SGB

Abusive men aren't reasonable. They certainly don't become reasonable after you leave them.

He is an arse. I have an ex Ea arse too, though not quite ex as the joy of divorce is so slow.

You're right to call it a stunt. I had a stunt pulled on me this bank holiday too and it did push my buttons, as much as I wish he couldn't. Did you say you were having therapy? This is helping me.

I'm doing a lot better and can ignore a lot of his crap. That's the place to get to where you are ok with your new life thankfully without him and can let go of the stress and upset. Very hard for you with the pg gf. My ex is still in our house too as he wouldn't leave even though he ended our marriage.

When ex had another woman in my house, my lovely friend said she was sorry for her, that her problem with him was just starting and she was so glad though that it was her in that house with him and not me. Really helped me thinking of it that way.

I seriously doubt he'll keep up the act for her forever. It wasn't down to you. He's a nasty abuser. Be glad you're free.

He's an abusive arse. He has pulled this stunt (and the "olive" branch) because he knows you are getting stronger. He can see it and feel it and he doesn't like it one jot.

Keep your head clear, stick to the agreed boundaries re your dd. But, if you can, spare a wee thought for that poor woman in the car. You got out, you won. She's got it all to come.

You handled that brilliantly.

What did he do? - try and upset and anger you. What did he get for it? No reaction that he could see - but a firm punishment. A statement that next time it's a bank holiday, he now has to arrange neutral handover or he doesn't see her. Well THAT worked well, didn't it, shit-for-brains!

And - don't beat yourself up about the olive branch stuff, or ringing him. That isn't going to look like weakness to him, because you aren't following it up with passivity - e.g. he offered to talk, so patronisingly 'when you're ready' - you firmly put him in his place and made it clear you aren't actually interested as there seems nothing to gain for YOU there. What it's going to look like is what it IS - you doing stuff for your daughter's sake. And if you can do that - what it signals is that you're strong enough to engage with him for her sake even though you don't want to - and the message that send out is that he's losing the power to hurt you. That's probably WHY he brought the poor sap along with him. He won't have liked it that you brushed off the 'talk' plan. And he won't have liked it at all that you 'strode into his manor' and called him on your own terms. Hmm. Not good. She should be cowering and I should be able to imagine her all fearful and upset! Not calling me for ME to have a conversation with DD on HER timetable! I know - I'll bring PoorSap along, that will upset her...

You're doing brilliantly. And everything that happens gives you more power and understanding of how his (non) mind works.

You handled the handover brilliantly. A cool factual e mail a while later was fine.
The problem is that you are still wanting him to take responsibility for your emotional well being. He won't and can't do that, and if he could he would be the worst person to do it.

Next time, leave out the bit about you feeling uncomfortable. Just stick to the practical nuts and bolts of the arrangement. And don't let him know any details of your emotional life: nothing to do with him whether you are in therapy or waiting for a WA appointment.

But you are doing amazingly well!

It does sound like you are still trying to keep dialogue going, considering mediation, sending a letter, emailing him, he knows about your therapy etc. you did really well not to blow your top when he came to pick up but as you want minimal contact I would try to stick to that and not correspond with him further. Good luck

Thank you all so much. This board really is a resource for when you hit a bad patch but you can't talk to your therapist or anyone in RL. Thank you for your wise words, they have helped me a lot this morning, and for sharing your own experiences.

I missed my therapy appointment yesterday because I was feeling too sad and I didn't want to leave crying and worn out. I went for lunch with a friend in stead (I did cancel of course, I hate no shows. )

SolidGold next time I will indeed imagine him having a poo on the carpet and try to laugh. I can pat myself on the back for having come a long way in standing up to him, setting terms, refusing to accept bad behaviour and keeping him at arm's length as possible. I suppose I'm mad at myself for slightly letting my guard down after his "olive branch" last week. Well, that won't be happening again. It's the things like birthdays and Christmas where it's harder to stick to being tough.

I actually told him he was very lucky that I did the decent thing for our daughter's sake when she was poorly, and kept him informed and let her have a good night phone call. I said that his behaviour at the handover was all the more reprehensible given that fact. You're all right, he's probably stinging at my reply and that I will no longer allow for any handover stunts.

I have no idea how he's treating her (new woman.) I can't find it in my heart to feel sorry for her exactly, because they've messed me about a lot around the sale of our former home, which I am desperate to be free of - he disappeared on me when we were trying to get it to market, delayed in every way possible - then out of the blue she moved in and was pregnant weeks later - he then claimed it would take months to "decorate" it to get it ready and she was too tired from moving here from another city - what a ridiculous situation! They then dangled a carrot of a possible buy out, then changed their minds but tried to make out I was being pushy - and all the while it sat without a for sale sign on it. It's on the market now but the area isn't doing well, and it's in negative equity. I just want shot of it.

I know he's fed her all sorts of stories about what a witch I must be, so I've never thought there's any point in trying to warn her or anything like that because I know that's what men like him do - persuade the new partner that the other people in his life are to blame and not him.

I do sincerely hope that he pitches in when the baby is born and doesn't leave her to become a sleep deprived broken soul like he did with me. I used to sit in the bath and cry for hours because of the PND I developed, and hide in whichever room was furthest from his office (he worked from home) because apparently it was my fault that she cried while he was trying to work. He then refused to believe I had PND (his words: "just get on with it") and blocked me from asking my GP for a CBT referral and citalopram just to get me through the waiting list time. Thankfully I had enough strength to still go and get help.

I'm on a waiting list for WA groups (but not very impressed with my local branch - they lost my referral and haven't been very proactive - the general helpline staff have been brilliant though.) I have a new counsellor and she's lovely but doesn't have EA experience. I'll still work hard to get whatever help I can from her though.

My main struggle at the moment is that I hate the fact I have to have anything to do with him, because of our daughter. She is a joy though, and we are very very close even at her young age. She called me "mummy loveheart" and tells me that I smell nice and she wants to hug me forever. So things like that help.

Sorry, I saw the further replies after I typed that!

I had varying opinions about whether I should confront him about the EA and tell him I'm in therapy. I decided that I would do it once, factually and calmly, because I needed it for part of my own closure. I discussed it with my therapist and she said I should do whatever I need to, to help myself - but obviously to be careful and not get dragged into anything messy. I don't want a reply or to engage in it because it would just turn into a mess.

But I genuinely felt that part of the reason I was hurting so badly when I hit my wall at 18 months was because when we finally split, he refused to ever acknowledge it, and insisted that we were friends and it had been an amicable split. None of our friends knew what was going on and holding that secret all to myself was killing me. The friends I chose to tell were genuinely shocked and the relief was wonderful.

I wanted to say my piece once, and say YOU DID THIS TO ME and none of it was my fault. Also, I used to feel ashamed that I had to ask for help, and hid it from most people. So I made it clear (just the once) to frankly tell him what kind of help I've sought, and that he should take his behaviour very seriously. He knows he is listed as a perp on the WA database. I know that will have shaken him. Good.

He's read it, and that's enough for me.

While you are waiting you can do the Freedom Programme online here

www.onespace.org.uk/learning/

Sorry you are still going through it with your despicable ex. It does seem that he can sense you are gaining in strength so he wants to bring you down. I too felt awful when the ow was pregnant. Why would he be nice to her when he was so scarily abusive and awful to me when I had a newborn and pnd. It is just hideous. Remember it is not your fault, his behaviour is all about him and the type of person he is. And he won't change. He may try to treat her nicely, but soon enough the mask will slip.

Sorry, I forgot to say that since xmas, I have been very strict about keeping emails purely factual and just about DDs care, nursery fees and other practical stuff. I knew I needed to do that for my own sanity!

We're only human though and I do wear my heart on my sleeve... so this was a blip. just one that made me pretty angry!

Cherryapple1 - I've registered for the Freedom Programme actually, and have completed module one. It's great!

I've also been reading a wonderful book called the War of Art. It's not about EA, but it covers a wide range of human conditions that are affected by what he calls Resistance, and it includes things like abusive behaviour or people who are addicted to having drama in their lives. It's really helped me too.

You're doing really well. Something that comes across to me is there's still a lot of energy going his way. It's natural and I do it too, though less and less. My feeling is I aim for a point where he just doesn't figure other than an handover or discussing our son. Think about your future.

What do you want for yourself? I've felt this is a process of finding me again not the twisted version he said I was.

Little things have helped. I realised the things I enjoy about my life (walks, making nice food, my dog, simple pleasures) all came from me. They weren't tied to him. He just tagged along. I've claimed places we went back again. Stuff I like. And now I dont have him spoiling them either.

Focus on you. X

Oh god, I've just had the most horrible email from him about the handover. He claims we had no agreement that he would stay in the car and that he is perfectly entitled to bring his partner in the car because it's important for DD to see that she is happy to see her. He suggested I am putting myself first and not my daughter's feelings and that I am denying her happy times by making handovers "difficult". He said that I was cruel to suggest that he shouldn't get out of the car and let her run up to him for a cuddle.

He is such a CUNT. I told him to check his emails where it clearly says what we'd agreed.

I let it rip. No name calling, kept my tone polite but I told him he has no right to change and dictate handover terms and force me to see her, and that given our past, I am perfectly entitled to protect myself from engaging in any face to face situations. And that I don't want to see his pregnant girlfriend - not because I am jealous, but because I don't want to be reminded of my unhappy past, where the man I trusted to be a good father and partner let me down when I needed him most.

He then pulled the "you're not the only one who's upset by this, you know" and implied, as ever, that I am selfish and self-centered. card too. As if I have been a horrible person to accuse him of EA and upset his family. Don't worry, I didn't believe that for a second but god, he is such a horrible man.

I know some of you may think this was a bad move. But I am at a really angry stage and I don't feel like taking ANY of his shit. Every time I try to manage things he won't let me. How do I live with this for the rest of my life?

confusedNC yes there is energy going his way, but this only flared up 6 months ago, up until that point I hadn't had the realisation that it was EA and I haven't had much therapy/help and I feel such anger. I do have positives in my life, I haven't listed them here but I have a lovely new partner and I am working hard to create a great new life for me, although it's hard going sometimes. But I come to this board with his stuff, to try and help, vent, listen and try to understand where I can.

It's early days. Please don't think my post was criticism. I have my moments and as I say, crap handover stunt myself this week (even started own thread). Just trying to pass on some positive thoughts I've had.

I totally understand the need to vent. Sometimes it feels right.

Do his emails go into your main inbox or have you set up a folder? it's good then to deal with it when you feel ready not straight away.

Mine also accused me of putting my feelings first before ds. It's laughable coming from such selfish bastards!

Delete his message and don't reply, you won't convince him you are right, don't waste energy on him you do not need to reply to him, don't keep the conversations going. Have a rant with your therapist instead.

I did reply and I got angry. I had to. I put up with his rubbish for 10 years and I couldn't let it go. I haven't done it in a long time though.

It may not work or do me any good but I have this feeling that I need to drill it into his head that he abused me, for my own self respect.

Don't worry, I wasn't taking anything as criticism. I am just hurting SO badly. It is so hard to be treated like you are the one being difficult and not moving on, and that I should just let it go. I feel like if I say nothing, he'll take it as me accepting it as truth and then I feel like I'm being treated like a doormat.

I do file his emails away in a DD folder to keep them out of my sight so they don't trigger upset. I try really hard to keep that buffer as wide as possible.

I think the issue is your need to convince him. That means you will keep communications open, why do you need to convince him, what he thinks doesn't matter you are free of him don't waste your life on him, seriously.

On the gf side of things, my ex was abusive in all sorts of ways and went straight from me to another woman. They then had a child swiftly afterwards. I spent many a time wondering why he was nice to her and not to me. Then they split up with an almighty rucus and it came out he had been abusive to her too.

So, feel sorry for that woman who has no idea what is in store for her. He won''t change.

He isn't going to be reasonable. Any glimmer of normal behaviour is usually meant to confuse you. His brain is wired up to think only of him and how he can control others. End of.

Stay strong and keep dealing with him at arms length. I know how hard that is, because I struggle with it with my ex. It's because you have a normal, caring mind. No-one can be 'too nice' or 'too sensitive'. You are normal. He isn't.

You'll never 'convince' him of his abuse. He already knows what he did. To him there is no reason to admit it. He cares not one jot about you or his current gf. He cares about himself. Why would he admit it? My ex would laugh in my face when he hurt me. After all of it he said 'I was never physical tho, was I?' and he was. On many many occasions. It just never occurred to him that he shouldn't be and therefore why should he admit it or apologise. Stop thinking his brain is like yours. It is not.

I take your point, but it is a very hard thing to try to do. I am so angry. I want him to feel ashamed and mortified.

I'm not free of him, we are still trying to sell the house (no thanks to him) and I have to share custody of our daughter. Even with very factual emails there is always a fair bit to sort out.

I would never see him ever again, given the choice, bur I am furious that that choice is not mine and I could never move back home, because of the custody issue.

I'm just not able to work out how to deal with this yet. I only realised it was EA in September/October, and it's been a lot to process. And I am furious that he is trying to dictate that I should have a friendly relationship with his partner.

And, I'll be honest, he's such an arse (and it's so clear to me now) that I am angry at myself for wasting 10 years of my life because unfortunately, I had a poor upbringing with an EA father, and ended up with someone like him.

So don't waste more of your life trying to convince him, focus on you not him. Don't bother communicating with him or replying to emails unless about dd or the house.

I haven't been, this just flared up this week. I felt like I wouldn't be respecting myself if I didn't defend myself and tell him what I think. I'm not saying it was the right or wrong thing to do and I'm not going to make a habit of it.

You've put it a tad bluntly perhaps which is hard to hear.

It is very hard to break away from 10 years of abuse and not feel broken or like damaged goods. I feel broken, all the time. I can't just forget 10 years of abuse and cheerfully get on with life. Maybe some people can, I don't know. Right now I feel like taking some old crockery and smashing it up in the car park (and sweeping it up afterwards, of course.)