EA ex - handover contact - stunt pulled and I'm upset!

[ohsotired45]

SOrry to start another EA thread but our old ones got a bit buried and long.

I had to do handover with DD with Ex on easter Monday as there was no nursery/holiday club. I agreed that he would pull up, and I would pop her in the back seat, strap her in and not engage in conversation. I have a minimal contact order in place and he knows I am getting therapy and awaiting a group at WA.

Instead, he turned up and got out of the car - and then I noticed he'd brought his pregnant girlfriend with him, who was clearly observing things from her seat. I have never met her, nor do I want to. Not because I'm jealous of her, but because he was such a sh!t to me when DD was born and things were hard - it's very painful to think of his being a dad again and if he's being nice to to her, why wasn't he nice to me? Not to mention they are still living in what was my home. However he twists that and just tries to make out that I'm jealous. I'm really not - I don't want to be with him, he repulses me - but there is a lot of hurt and loss of what I had hoped for as a family.

He didn't even have the courtesy to tell me he was wanting to do this, and I'm fairly certain he did it on purpose to hurt me.

I did not say a word or cause a scene, and gave my DD lots of hugs and kisses and said I would leave him to it. Thank god I was wearing sunglasses.

I gave it an hour and then sent a polite, but firm email sating he had violated the terms of our agreed handover which he knew I was uncomfortable with in the first place. I have said that if it's a bank holiday, it's up to him to find a neutral ground for us so we don't have to see each other.

I was firm but polite, but not a reply yet. It was his birthday yesterday so no doubt he is sulking that I've somehow ruined that.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. I feel like I did the right thing to stand up to him and call a spade a spade, but it's playing on my mind as to whether I should have waited longer before I sent it. I don't know. The silence sucks. It was such a thoughtless, mean stunt that I felt very indignant and wanted to nip it in the bud.

The ironic thing is, he kind of offered an olive branch last week re: the letter I sent him about the EA and said that he wanted to try and make things better, and let's talk when I'm ready. I was a fool for briefly believing we might have a rational conversation. (I did say that I didn't see how a very difficult conversation like that could happen, unless we used a safe space eg therapist - but that I also did not want to hear and excuses, non apologies or justifications)

ALlo, she was poorly with vomitiing bug while we were away for a few days, and I worked up the courage to ring him and let her have a good night chat as she'd been a bit scared of the illness.

I can't trust him. I'm too nice, aren't I?

ARSE!

Very late so gong to bed, any thoughts gratefully taken on board. Night x

Ditto and ditto re history repeating itself. It's bloody HARD. Really hard

I remember a therapist , who I was seeing after a traumatic birth, saying she'd like to poke the obstetrician in the eye. That helped me a LOT. A bit of emotion, you know? Protective of me. That did it for me! Sometimes therapists can be so focused on letting us make our own decisions they shy away from making their feelings known - but for me a bit of humanity goes a long way.

I know it's hard, op. Bear in mind the old adage: this too shall pass. It really does. At one point I wanted to murder my ex - literally. I was consumed with fantasies about it; it was the only thing that brought me peace. But it passed! It was part of coming to terms - an essential part imo - and I had to let it flow through, as bad as it was. You want justice and you're obsessed with that (completely empathise with that btw!) - and that will pass. The time will come when you can't be bothered to even think about him.

The same for my dad btw. I can't be bothered to think about him. Sometimes I am full of digust and revulsion for some stunt he's pulled... and I let it roll through. It's over quite quickly because, ultimately, I choose LIFE. I don't want to be snarled up because of his shit - done that, got the T-shirt! I can't be bothered to give him the head/heart space a moment longer than I need to.

A friend of mine said recently, 'justice is real! It exists!' and I agree with her: I've seen it in my own life. Can you have a go at believing in justice, that you are not responsible for powering through; a separate entity to you? Ie trusting that justice will do its work aside from me and anything I could do. It is real, it really does exist.

In the meantime, you have my permission to be full of vengeance, knowing it will pass at the right time. It's only natural with what you've been through - just don't let him know about it, he's not worth it! Pearls before swine. Your healing is too precious for him to see xxx

I also meant to say that i am working towards forgiving him for what he did to me as I am SO unbelievably angry with him (and his family and friends who all knew but are now conveniently denying it), but I can't live my life being angry so feel the only option is to accept what happened and what he did, be grateful that I was strong enough to walk out, and move on emotionally and in time (a long time I imagine) forgive him. Probably not a thought you can entertain now but maybe one to think about at some point?

You can't reason with someone like this. Build the walls high and keep contact to a minimum.

I have to butt in here - a therapist at one point suggested the F word about my ex (forgiveness) and I went a bit loony. I just couldn't countenance that at that stage. The time came - still not quite there, it's ongoing! - when I did get to something that looks vaguely like forgiveness, I suppose. But I am still incredibly angry. It doesn't consume me, I don't hold onto it, I just am angry. Rightfully so imo.

Forgiveness, anyway, is not (necessarily!) 'Ah well, that's alright then, let's forget it'. That would be a travesty in some situations imo. Accepting it happened, that the perpetrator is so divorced from humanity they could do such a thing, is one thing, a version of forgiveness ie a letting go of sorts? But that is a process that takes time. And, ime, it's an ongoing process I'm doing for myself. I doubt I'll never fully get there tbh.

yes, absolutely, forgiveness can't come until you feel like it could never happen to you again. Until you've dealt with the damage it did to you but rebuilt yourself, jamie sommers style, accepted it. Before that, i think forgiveness feels like weakness. Like saying it was ok to treat me like that.

Now because I know I am a totally different and superior person to the narcissistic bully my x is, I feel a sort of forgiveness that is based on no longer caring so much because my life is more than ok. I survived it. Financially emotionally and practically and I'm happy. But yes, at the beginning that 'forgive' nonsense, so many people trotted it out way too soon. It was unhelpful. I wouldn't mention forgiveness now if I were talking to somebody in my shoes. You have to build yourself up.

I totally agree springdaffs - forgiveness for me is about accepting that he did what he did and that his upbringing (lack of parental affection) and a whole host of other factors has made him like he is, perhaps he couldn't help but abuse me. Although I do think that if he can show affection to our children then he must understand it and therefore I go round in a circle as to why he was so terrible to me. I was driven to two suicide attempts, suffered deep depression, and am convinced my rheumatoid arthritis was brought on by the stress. However I refuse to let him control anymore of my life and if that means letting go and forgiving then that's what I have to work towards. It makes me the better bigger person.

This thread is making me cry so much this morning. It's just going to be one of those days. Thank you all so much for sharing and listening.

My dad nearly died 5 years ago from a massive coronary and it was so hard because I felt nothing, and then guilt that I should because it was my dad. He's now a pussycat who has somehow survived his illness but is more like a child. I've come to terms a lot with all that though, apart from choosing my ex who was so like him.

I will never forgive, I agree totally that it feels disempowering to me and I have also got extremely angry when people said it to me (without meaning to upset me, I'm sure.)

But I do need to learn how to accept that what's happened has happened, and find a way to let go. I know for a fact that my DP will never treat me that way and I'll never be in that place again, and if I was still there, I might not be here typing this today.

It's going to take a lot of work and time but it has to change, the anger is justified but it blocks me from enjoying life sometimes, and from getting my work done. I have been doing things like spending a couple of hours doing things that are pleasurable to me, like creating new outfits for nights out (I do love to go out and dance, and my ex used to eye up my outfit and say 'you're going out in that?" and make me feel like crap), dying my hair peach (always makes me happy) and going out to sit in a nice cafe for an expensive piece of cake and coffee (something I used to be made guilty for "wasting" money) Those feel like a bit "EFF YOU" to me.

I wish I could minimise contact even further, but I have no family here and it would be a big ask of my friends (many of whom have their own complicated lives) I did get DP to help manage emails for a while but he ended up being nasty to him too, so I stopped that. But I will be as strict as I can about contact and handovers and keep them to an absolute minimum. And if he's struggling when the baby arrives and suddenly goes all nice and wants more help and me to take DD more (something he has always blocked) he can forget it, unless I decide that DD is being affected and I want to protect her from the stress.

Funny what was said about the abuser's own upbringing - he has a lovely mum (who did mollycoddle him too much though) but he never knew his dad, who was an abusive drunk - and his stepdad wasn't much better, although he's mellowed with age. However I begged him to seek help for his past and he refused. I know he was damaged by it and because I cared, I begged him several times to try and help himself. However it's no excuse for then taking that out on me.

I'm going to go out for a walk in the sun, post a parcel, buy some flowers and then do some work. Have a great day everyone. x

This forgiveness thing... I really don't think forgiveness is letting someone off. Real forgiveness is much deeper than that - and it costs! It's a decision, ultimately; doesn't have much to do with feelings. I do it for myself .

Didn't someone say unforgiveness is like holding burning coals to your chest hoping the transgressor will get burned?
For me, unforgiveness is a picture of two boats tied together; forgiveness is cutting the rope and letting the other boat bob off down the river over the rapids

Anger and forgiveness are two different things, too - you can 'forgive' but still feel angry. Whether or not my bully abuser had a terrible childhood - and he did - I wasn't there, I dont condone what happened to him, it wasn't my fault. Making me pay for it is nonsensical; that makes two victims when one is quite enough. My ex also wouldn't address his childhood damage, instead preferred to project it all onto me. My job was getting out of that dynamic so I wasn't there for him to project it onto. It's HIS STUFF, not mine.

All that stuff at the door, the mucking around, is him projecting his stuff onto you. Don't take it? It's not actually about you, it's about him.

I don't think I can ever "forgive" in the sense that I would expect someone to be grateful and acknowledge the gesture - like when a person close to you makes a terrible mistake and shows remorse. He is clearly never going to do that, so he is not worthy of my compassion and forgiveness, in that sense.

I see clearly now that I have to work on letting go, a bit like your cutting the rope analogy, so that his nasty ship can sail away and I can live my life and let him affect me as little as possible. More and more hopefully, as time passes. And forgive myself for staying there for 10 years, something I beat myself up about a lot.

I won't take any of his projecting stuff - by simply refusing to allow it to happen, or refusing to agree to things, but absolutely doing my best to not let it upset me. He fights me hard when I request things to put a buffer between us. This last one stung because he tried to make out I was being a selfish mum and not thinking of my daughter by requesting minimum contact, and that's a new one that - and I admit it caught me off guard. He has a very clever knack of knowing just what to say to hurt me when he can see that whatever his last thing he was doing is no longer working.

I'll be sure to not bottle anything up and show my DP and close friends any emails that are possibly upsetting me, as that will help me see through the BS (perspective from a friend is always good) - but hopefully they're just going to be pretty factual for the next while anyhow.

I only mentioned his childhood stuff because it was interesting to see it raised by another poster. I definitely don't see it as an excuse or my problem, and I tried several times to encourage him to seek help and he refused, so that's completely his unfortunate path that he chose.

If I have to, I'll set up mediation or court applications - but that's a ways down the road. There are some possible custody change issues ahead that I might need professional help with. I won't take ANY crap from him on that front and I have already had offers of financial assistance for legal rep if it comes to it. He will not bully me when it comes to my daughter's wellbeing.

Maybe one day I will re-think how I feel about the word forgive, but I'm really just not ready for it yet.

The holding burning coals to your chest analogy is one that sounds familiar, but I think when you're really recently out of an abusive relationship the hot coals by your chest can serve as a boundary. It's a boundary that isn't soothing or healing but the anger is a reminder to keep a distance, kind of.

Only when you've got a shield, a teflon shield that comes from acceptance and the passing of time can you afford to put down the own boundary you had to mark the change between being IN the relationship and having left it.

I stepped away from all my thoughts about this for a few days because my brain was just overloaded. But I really appreciated everyone's input and thoughts.

I have a CBT call this afternoon and I'll talk through some things with him. What I am mainly angry about is that he's accusing me of affecting our daughter by wanting minimal contact at handovers, and that I'm not thinking of the "upset" I'm causing in his home by "accusing" him of his 10 years of EA, and basically hinting why have I brought it up now, as though I've created it out of the blue just to be nasty. Thankfully, he hasn't emailed me over the weekend so I could just try to put it from my mind.

I know that this is probably very standard behaviour from an EA ex, and he's just constantly having to find new ways of trying to get to me when he sees that his current methods aren't working. But that teflon shield still isn't there, and as this is the first time he's brought our daughter into it - I just thought - well that's a lowest of the low stunt.

I have loads of work to do, and only 2 days of holiday club booked as that's what I could afford - but I'm looking forward to having a nice rest of the week with DD, even if it's pretty exhausting! We loved our easter trip away too.

This is something I used to do with my kids when they felt aggrieved: see yourself where you are, in your street; pull back and see the area - all those people; pull back some more and see the city... country... world! All those people! And he is ONE person walking about with a fucked mindset. Pfft, he's nobody. You know the truth.

As long as you are hooked into him, his behaviour, his worldview, he will continue to abuse you - he did it last weekend at the door, he did it with the emails. He's NOBODY op. If you are hooked into getting the upper hand, for justice to be seen, you're hooked into a/very painful seam - because he is not fair, he doesn't play fair, he is capable of going lower than you can even imagine, FAR lower than you ever could.

Perhaps see that he's sick, normal rules don't apply (and they really don't!). Then, when he kicks off, you can think 'there he goes again, blah blah blah'

What he thinks of your parenting is IRRELEVANT, bears no relationship to reality. Don't let him wind you up.

I'm too raw and angry. Every day hurts. My therapist doesn't seem to have any ideas as to how to help me get past the anger. I know he is ridiculous and laughable, but it's not funny or easy when he is the father of your child and you have to deal with him, and I try so hard to be firm and set boundaries in place, but he deliberately breaks them. I'm not a doormat, I will not be walked all over.

It's so exhausting when you'd rather never see him again, or share my daughter with him because frankly, I don't think he deserves any joy or happiness in his life... But I have no choice.

What I am mainly angry about is that he's accusing me of affecting our daughter by wanting minimal contact at handovers,

This was my ex's behaviour too. Absolutely anything I did; he'd turn it into a stick to beat me with over how it affected DD.
For months I tried to appease him; ignoring what my counsellor advised, as I was so terrified he'd paint me as a crap mum.

But, eventually, he took it so far, it became ridiculous. He accused me of "making him" upset DD by having to ask her why I'd taken one of my pets to the vet as I had ignored his email asking me about it. At that point I realised that it wasn't me at all, it was him.

It may take time for you too, OP, but eventually, I'm sure you will see his behaviour for what it really is.

Thanks you Peruvian - I think it's a tough stage where I know he's being a prat and he's spouting rubbish, but it's still getting to me because I want things to be simple. And I'm being punished for confronting him for his EA. I don't want to feel like this forever but it's a raw stage at the moment. I'm just exhausted. Hopefully more time will help.

I had a (sort of) apology email from him today, that left me feeling shaky but at least like some questions had been answered. I'm going to take some time to digest but it't the first time (and 5 years well too late) he's ever said he was sorry.

I don't know what to make of it or how to proceed yet but my DP read it and said it sounded sincere.

Maybe it will be a piece of the puzzle I need to get better and move forward, so that at least handovers and anything to do with DD won't be so stressful. We'll see.

I'd be very wary of letting your guard down iiwy. It may or may not be genuine but do be cautious.

Maybe you should look for another therapist? Your time with this one may have run its course xx

I am indeed extremely wary of letting my guard down. The apology mail came out of the blue, connected to the bad handover incident. I'm only able to see my new counsellor next week so I'll talk to her then. I have to think very carefully about it because it could answer questions or send my spiral of depression out of whack, again...

I so want to be happy. To wake up and smile and want to face the day, and want to do my work. The low moods are killing me. I have the odd break away from it, and I really try to engage with my therapists (phone one and new counsellor one) - I don't hold back, I express my feelings. But it's very easy for me to slip back into a low mood. I worry about everything at once & feel overwhelmed and don't know where to start.

I worry maybe I am someone who is prone to depression & will never be able fully shake it. I've battled with it for different reasons for so long!

I'm sorry you're struggling op (hug)

As a longterm depression sufferer myself, I've done a lot of work around it. Depression doesn't come from nowhere - there's usually a cause - and learning to accept it and work with it really does take the sting out of it. Most people have no idea I'm depressed - not bcs I cover it up but bcs I have a good time, usually. The odd off day, certainly, but that's not the norm.

There have been times, though when it's been wall-to-wall misery, so you have my sympathy. It's no surprise you feel that now so give yourself a break and be kind kind kind to your sweet self. I mean it: you have to be your friend, the kindest person to you in your life.

Have you done CBT? Sounds like it could help to get anxiety under control. CBT breaks things down and gives you skills to manage mood. Very effective and an excellent resource in your toolbox.

I'm concerned to hear you currently have two therapists, that's not the norm and not recommended. Stick with one or the other and fully invest with just one. There's probably quite a history to work through from what you've said so be prepared to feel crap until you, well, feel better - depression is an illness like any other xx