EA ex - handover contact - stunt pulled and I'm upset!

[ohsotired45]

SOrry to start another EA thread but our old ones got a bit buried and long.

I had to do handover with DD with Ex on easter Monday as there was no nursery/holiday club. I agreed that he would pull up, and I would pop her in the back seat, strap her in and not engage in conversation. I have a minimal contact order in place and he knows I am getting therapy and awaiting a group at WA.

Instead, he turned up and got out of the car - and then I noticed he'd brought his pregnant girlfriend with him, who was clearly observing things from her seat. I have never met her, nor do I want to. Not because I'm jealous of her, but because he was such a sh!t to me when DD was born and things were hard - it's very painful to think of his being a dad again and if he's being nice to to her, why wasn't he nice to me? Not to mention they are still living in what was my home. However he twists that and just tries to make out that I'm jealous. I'm really not - I don't want to be with him, he repulses me - but there is a lot of hurt and loss of what I had hoped for as a family.

He didn't even have the courtesy to tell me he was wanting to do this, and I'm fairly certain he did it on purpose to hurt me.

I did not say a word or cause a scene, and gave my DD lots of hugs and kisses and said I would leave him to it. Thank god I was wearing sunglasses.

I gave it an hour and then sent a polite, but firm email sating he had violated the terms of our agreed handover which he knew I was uncomfortable with in the first place. I have said that if it's a bank holiday, it's up to him to find a neutral ground for us so we don't have to see each other.

I was firm but polite, but not a reply yet. It was his birthday yesterday so no doubt he is sulking that I've somehow ruined that.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for here. I feel like I did the right thing to stand up to him and call a spade a spade, but it's playing on my mind as to whether I should have waited longer before I sent it. I don't know. The silence sucks. It was such a thoughtless, mean stunt that I felt very indignant and wanted to nip it in the bud.

The ironic thing is, he kind of offered an olive branch last week re: the letter I sent him about the EA and said that he wanted to try and make things better, and let's talk when I'm ready. I was a fool for briefly believing we might have a rational conversation. (I did say that I didn't see how a very difficult conversation like that could happen, unless we used a safe space eg therapist - but that I also did not want to hear and excuses, non apologies or justifications)

ALlo, she was poorly with vomitiing bug while we were away for a few days, and I worked up the courage to ring him and let her have a good night chat as she'd been a bit scared of the illness.

I can't trust him. I'm too nice, aren't I?

ARSE!

Very late so gong to bed, any thoughts gratefully taken on board. Night x

I think you getting angry and standing up for yourself is good. Draws a line in the sand. Now is your time to say what you feel from a point of safety. But sadly he won't listen, he won't agree and he won't change.

In time you will disengage and care less and won't need to say stuff to him. Not that I advocate saying lots to him. But on this occasion I think it is understandable and perhaps a bit empowering for you too.

Yeah, time will help. And saying my piece, very bluntly, helps a bit too. I was so shut down, I wasn't allowed to speak or be acknowledged - that I needed to do this.

But today I feel so sad, and I don't feel good about myself, or motivated to do anything positive or fun that I might enjoy. I'm just very, very angry and tired. And wishing I could start over with my DD and my DP somewhere else, far far away from him.

Op you are doing great, head up and be proud of yourself.

Just do not engage, one day you will find happiness and he....well he has shown you by his actions that he is not capable of attaining happiness in its truest sence. He is a bitter and twisted husk of a human.

Your dd is lucky to have such a switched on mum.

I'm afraid this is a mighty long process. My EA Ex is still trying to get me to jump through hoops after 7 years, and it's taken me this long to stop doing it. I've finally understood that whether or not I jumped through the hoops it actually made no difference to the final outcome. Very liberating a realisation it is too.

Thanks Pandoras, that's a very kind thing to say. I do think I am a pretty awesome friend, I have a man who loves me and friends who support me a lot, and I try to be a great mum to my little girl because I didn't get that as a child. He just seems to be the only person who has it in for me.

I won't be sending anymore engaging emails but I felt I had to say what I did today. Will well and truly leave it at that for now though. I mean, he actually had to gall to say that I was being selfish when I told him he'd broken our drop off plan by getting out of the car, after I'd made it clear I felt very uncomfortable meeting in person - which he gave me me choice but to accept, even after I asked him four times to think of a way to manage it.

His view: "My daughter saw me and ran towards me, so of course I got out. If I'm going to have to choose between your feelings and my daughter, it'll be my daughter everytime." And she only ran towards him after he got out of the car, not before.

He then said he had every right to bring his girlfriend, so that my daughter could see how happy she was to see her. He omitted the fact that we've never met and that it's been a very fraught issue given how they messed me about over the house buy out, and he moved her in without consulting me (my name is on deeds and mortgage), and that he didn't think he should possibly give me some advance warning as a courtesy. (Because he knew full well I'd say no, that's not acceptable.)

He also went on to say that I should be sorry for causing so much upset, that I'm not considering how this is upsetting him and his pregnant girlfriend. I've not ever spoken to her, and well, sorry mate - if you hadn't been a bastard for 10 years, this wouldn't be happening!

I've said they are free to live happily with my daughter when she is with them, I have never blocked anything or interfered - so it is utterly ridiculous to suggest that I am denying my daughter quality time with them by protecting myself in these handover situations.

What an absolute tosser. I went for a walk in the sun, and I'm making some nice food to wind down.

I am sorry it's taken 7 years for you wallypops. I can understand how it can possibly take as long as it takes, but I really want to see what I can do in the next 6 months, purely for my own sanity. for you though.

I've woken up in tears. The ugly realisation that he is now going to take the stance that I'm exaggerating the abuse and/or that I'm bringing it up as some sort of tool against him (all bollocks of course) is making me feel horrendous and abused, yet again.

How do I stand up for myself when I think it's important, but also learn not to care what he thinks or responds with? I am an emotional person so I do get sensitive.

I don't know how to learn to be tough after the fact yet (eg I have the strength to write or tell him something, but not deal with the emotional upset afterwards)

Is there a boot camp for developing emotional resilience when dealing with horrible exes who you unfortunately have the misfortune of having to deal with?

Probably the best thing to do is to focus on how to avoid having to do one of these handovers again, so you don't have to see the horrible, inadequate bastard. You can tie yourself up in knots trying to explain to him and get him to understand, but he won't care and in fact will be glad to know he's upset you.

I was going to start a similar tread today, well more or less similar, and the responses really did help me too.
Contact accesses are just so difficult with EAex, I sometimes feel like there will never be peace for me. My ex is an absolute a**e, and the more he sees I am doing well, the more abusive he becomes. I just got a new job he actually screwed up my second day. I hate myself for allowing him to do so, but there is just as much as I can do as my DS is involved. that is the only weapon he can use now and he does every time he can. usually the worse episodes are just after an act of olive branch. I know now that every time he seems trying to help me, help that do not actually need, a few days later something bad will happen. I try to keep my self away, but it's very difficult.
He is controlling and nasty, he plays with my time, my feelings, he wants to be in my life although he hates me. I do communicate with him mainly by texts, but he increasingly stepped into my life again, until yesterday when he just crossed the line and finally I resorted to clearly state to him is not allowed into my property anymore and all communication must be regarding DS contacts with him and that he must notify to me in advance his plans. I know it sounds ridiculous to all normal separated couples, since these are normal terms of separation, however with EA is different, and it requires a strength that I not always have.
This board has been very helpful, with practical advice, but also as an encouragement. I don't feel anymore stupid and alone. I am trying to manage a very difficult situation and I do make a lot of mistakes, but knowing that I am not the only one in a similar position gives me strength when I feel I ran out of it. thanks to all of you

Ohsotired - he will never admit he was wrong. But just because he denies it doesn't mean he is right.

I think the best, most powerful weapon you have is actually your silence. Nothing you can say will get him to admit to it - but if you can find ways of not communicating or engaging with him unless strictly necessary, then you will find it much easier to deal with.

I've been (trying) to work and do a million errands today so only just reading the latest posts now. Thanks everyone.

I've had a couple of threads and I wouldn't expect people to have read them/remembered, so I'll recap a couple of points:

Since xmas, when I requested a minimum contact agreement, emails have been purely factual about DD's care and anything to do with that, her nursery fees, health etc. And other separate ones about trying to sell the house (please god, let someone buy it this spring) It was going reasonably well, for a while.

I have also very rarely had to see him, because handover is done via her nursery (he drops off on a Monday morning, I collect in the afternoon and drop off the following Monday.) This works very well for me as a buffer.

However, I've had a very long and difficult time since last September when this all blew up, and I was waiting for counselling, WA groups etc. and was finding it extremely hard over the winter. You do these intense referral assessments where you have to describe your history, which opens everything up - and then you have nowhere to go with it because their waiting lists are full to bursting. Everyone is different but I found that process incredibly difficult, to open up, let all that out and then be told "we're not sure when we can see you." It's not their fault (well, blame Cameron et al) but it didn't do me any good.

It also didn't help that the house had a grand total of 2 viewings since early November, and that created tension as I really wanted out.

I held out for as long as I could, but as I mentioned in another thread, I felt that part of my healing process was going to have to be writing a letter to my ex, in a factual but blunt way to confront him about our 10 years together. My original plan was to send it after the house sale but as it wasn't looking good, I couldn't wait any longer.

I knew there would be difficulties afterwards but I had to do it. I guess it's been about 1.5 months, maybe less since he received it. I know he's read it, and although we had a mini email discussion about it I said I didn't want a reply and he hasn't tried to send me one regardless.

However, in recent weeks I sensed that his mood about my letter has changed. We've also had to negotiate what to do about DD's birthday which is coming up in a couple of months.

I carefully negotiated the easter monday handover and as I said at the start of the post, he went against all the agreed plans and was then very nasty in his reply when I challenged him, so I (politely but very bluntly) put him right on all the important points. It's also clear to me that my letter has sunk in and made him angry.

It's hard. I don't want to engage with him, but nor am I a doormat and I'm not going to accept extreme bad behaviour such as the handover fiasco. But I do struggle with how it makes me feel afterwards - and his snarky responses, which are to be expected.

I have some work to do on how to manage this in future.

But - I fully intend to go back to factual emails for now. It's too exhausting otherwise.

Sorry, this is longer than expected and now I have a headache from thinking about it! Have a nice weekend everyone.

p.s. pixieinthewoods our situations sound like they have quite a few similarities and I know it's tough. And that some people just don't get it if they don't understand EA and your need for distance, and might think that you're just not trying hard enough to "get over it" and want to be an awkward ex. for you too.

He's still abusing you. Every time you have any contact, he will abuse you.

He will do it for EVER. He will never change. When he dies please god and they don he autopsy he'll have 'abuser' running through him to the core ["hey, take a look at this, Frank, this guy's got 'abuser' running right through him"]

He will NEVER feel ashamed for what he's done. To protect yourself, don't let him know what you're thinking and feeling - eg 'uncomfortable' is an emotive word, don't use it; instead, use statements: 'I do not accept' 'I expect' etc.

Don't try to get him to see, it only opens you up to his abuse. Which he enjoys He will use your need for justice as a hook to abuse you all the more. You have to get justice elsewhere.

Next time he pulls a stunt like that, close the door and don't go through with contact as he has 'violated the contact agreement'. Ignore any bleeding. Don't read his putrid emails!

Keep going, lovely. T-shirt here, you do get through it in the end xx

*bleeting

Yeah, I think I"m slowly realising that I just can't ever take anything he says seriously, or as sincere.

I've said my piece fairly clearly this one time, which I had to do - right or wrong - but you're right, he probably did enjoy it in some way, although I am at least pleased to note that I hit a nerve - at least he read it - but he definitely found ways to twist it. I wasn't expecting great things, but I thought I might shock him by being blunt and that maybe, just maybe he would feel ashamed. I can only hope that he did or will at some point privately, during those odd moments like when he occasionally said he knew what he was when I was there.

It's just very hard to accept that you'll never get an apology, or justice when you deserve it. I am a stubborn lady!

It's now been 2 years but still feels pretty early days. I'll just have to give it time and keep up the therapy for now. The thing is, my therapist doesn't seem to have ideas for how to stop me getting angry. She says I need to stop looking to him for an apology. I know that. But how do I stop getting upset and angry when I feel wronged? Does it just slowly fade?

I'm not sure I ever felt like that. I certainly felt the injustice but never wanted or expected an apology. He never said he was sorry for anything. If he did it was quantified by a BUT you did xyz. Like when he told me to just go top myself. I thought that unforgivable and challenged him for an apology the next day. He said he'd just said what he thought at the time. So my fault then?

I'm Sorry you feel how you do when really you've done great moving on. I'm you've got a lovely new partner. Way braver than me. Can't imagine wanting to again.

Am posting to follow and would like to contribute when not with wine in hand...have a similar-ish situation.

I am a stubborn lady!

Oh dear, that'll be the death of you. It won't hurt him one bit - in fact he will relish it - but it really will harm you.

You have to let this go! I get it that you crave justice - from my own experience, I really do get that - but you have to let life dish up its own justice. You definitely won't get justice if you hang on like a bulldog. It will just hurt you .

Fwiw I got my justice. While I was waiting for it I fantasised elaborate justice scenarios. They were not mild fantasies. It wouldn't have been a good idea if that stage lasted years but it certainly served me at the time. Imo it was an essential part of my healing.

Sorry you are going through this op, perhaps when new baby comes along he will focus more on that? I wonder if the pg girlfriend is aware of Claire's Law?

He won't ever admit he's abusive, he won't ever apologise, you're fighting a losing battle there. Don't waste any more energy on him, you don't need him to admit he is/was in the wrong because you know the truth, why won't you believe what you know? You don't need him to agree with you and you don't need to have anything to do with him to get closure. Don't play his game anymore, distance is great at helping you see through the fog. I know it's difficult when you are in the middle of it, the only way to "win" is to get out of the dynamic you have with him and live your life not giving a shit about him.
Baggage reclaim has had some good posts on a similar subject lately, March 3rd and April 8th in particular, worth a read

I have just spent the past twenty minutes crying my eyes out after reading the latest replies. Not because I don't appreciate the advice & thoughts, I so do - I genuinely am touched by people taking the time to write things for me - but because they are very hard to hear and I'm nowhere near a place (yet) where I can let go.

springydaffs, your comment about me being stubborn will be the death of me is something I worry about. I so desperately want him out of my life, and as that isn't going to happen, I can't think of any other way for that to happen than for me to not be here. It's nothing more than that - a desperate thought & wish to be free. I could never hurt myself or do that to my daughter and my DP. But I despise having to share my daughter with him. I hate having to deal with him at all, however factual/arm's length just about DDs care.

I am still very raw and angry because he forced me to act as though we split amicably and no one knew the truth. And now I'm angry, and I want the truth out there.

I know what you're saying is right. I won't get an apology, he'll be like this forever and I have to find a way to toughen up & let go, and maybe even scoop up DD and take her back inside if he pulls a handover/contact stunt again. I'd never thought of that! But it is so hard.

My dad was an EA arse who could never apologise, who raised me in a strict religious upbringing (essentially a cult) and then I wasted 10 years with a man who was essentially him - great choices I made eh? And no apologies from the two men who did some very serious damage to someone they should have treated with love.

So I have a lot of pain and anger that has only recently bubbled to the surface about all of this and I don't know what to do with it all yet. I am listening to all the comments and I know how it wastes energy. But the pain is so acute at times.

I just wish he would disappear. That is my fantasy. He would also fully deserve it if he's the same with his new partner & she walks out when the baby arrives. I'm not even sure he should be a dad again.

I'm going to make another very strong coffee, get to work and then my DP has promised to take me out for drinks later (he's entertaining clients all day) and so I'll get a bit dolled up & have some fun. So that'll be nice.

Just for now. Hope you enjoy your drinks out later. Still here listening.(but better drag my lazy bum out of bed, get ds dressed and tidy the bombsite in kitchen and stop mning!)

ohsotired imo you are doing so well! and there is nothing wrong in getting angry when somebody breaks an agreement or mistreats you! actually I believe this is already a sign of healing: i got so used to his abuses that at some point I wasn't even able to understand what was abuse and what wasn't. I get very angry too, and believe me he gives me all the right reasons to get livid. However, for my own sake, I am no longer angry at the past, that is gone, thank god I'm out and actually so much happier than I was, I only regret to have waited so long. And when he does make me angry now, I found my own coping strategies (ie chilling with music, reading a book, call a friend. and they are my tricks to cope with it all, BECAUSE he wouldn't let me do it when we were living together, so it's my way to reward myself after one of his performances). it won't stop him from upsetting me, I know, but I am now able to let go as soon he is out of the scenario. I don't let that anger ruin all I am building every day. and again this is another sign of healing, because it was not like that until very recently. It is not easy to do just because somebody tell you that you can,ime it is something that suddenly happens at some point. as I said it is actually good you are recognising what behaviours are acceptable and getting angry when they are not. just don't let him undermine all the rest, he has done it long enough.

a very big hug to you, you don't even know how much I understand you

oh and about the apologies...I will never ever get an apology. but I do apologise to myself for having put myself through it for so long and I promise myself to take better care of me and love me dearly. In fact I do care about me, my DS, my family and friends, I do not care a bit about him, so I don't need anything from him, not even an apology. the only way he could actually make me feel better or make my life easier would be if he disappeared in thin air, but, maybe(not so sure about it), it wouldn't be fair on my DS. So, an apology wouldn't change anything at all, therefore he can keep it. I do hope Karma is true though...and he will get it all back at some point

Great post pixie. Resonates with me too.

Reading your posts I have a suspicion we must have been married to twins! My relationship with ex is getting better as I am better able to manage his controlling behaviour, it takes such a long time to get yourself back and to stop acting the way you have been for 10 yrs I.e. Constantly thinking will this please him, will this annoy him. I have the support of a wonderful partner who keeps reminding me that it's him who is the abuser and that I am no longer the abused but just me again.

Never underestimate the absolute and utter relief of going no contact.
I was in a similar position some years ago and I wasn't doing very well.
I arranged things so I had no contact whatsoever even texts and emails for about 3 weeks and was pretty much 100% better after.
My sisters communicated with him about dc, money, house etc.
His ow whom he left me for when our 4th child and much longed for daughter was a few months old, has 3 dc now by him and he's the unsupportive drunken selfish idiot he always has been.
I don't even pity her, I feel sorry for her and woukd support her should she ever need me to. She is a loveky step mum too.
He is still an arse but he's not my arse
You will be just fine in time x