But we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's March 2015 and the Stately Home is still open to visitors. Unfortunately I have not been able to make the links work; is it possible for one of you lovely people to do that?.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

A tough lunchtime! Sorry to come here and moan, but that's about all I can do about it this afternoon.

I went to parents' yesterday (as directed) and couldn't make anyone hear! I couldn't get in so drove off and texted them. Mum phoned to apologise and we arranged I would have my lunch (heated up) today. So far, so normal...

So I went today and we had the usual moan about the traffic and a chat about the good weather. Lunch was served. Then she started.

She had been to visit my aunties (80 and nearly 90). The 80 year old is lazy (so I was told). She needs to go out for a walk. (She cannot due to the worst arthritis I have ever seen). She is a misery, moaning and boring. Less moaning about 90 year old but last time she came home from there, mum spent several minutes reminding me how "poor looking" that aunty
is!

My brother had made the lunch but had "dared" to use a bit of each of the nice things in the fridge - they had some stuffed peppers, bits of fish, special treats for BH weekend. So mum made a huge fuss about putting every OFF their plates back into the pots in the fridge. She said dad was allowed a slice of game pie, she would have some fish, but no one could possibly have a bit of everything. After all that, I pointed out her slice of bread was mouldy (which does happen with homemade bread) and she happily cut the mould off and ate the rest!

Dad was fiddling with the Aga, that brother had unblocked and cleaned out (the fire part) earlier today. Dad got a tissue to wipe a bit of soot off the top. "What are you doing? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! SIT DOWN!" he was told.

Constant bitching about everyone during lunch which I ignored. No asking how my day/holiday/children/life is.

Dad then got up to do the washing up, which he always does. Mum shouted "I'LL DO THAT, OF COURSE THERE IS NO HOT WATER WHATSOEVER", which is another obsession - hot water and room temperature. You could see the steam bouncing off the sink - solar panels going full pelt today! There was a huge fuss about the kettle would need to be boiled although dad was explaining that there would be enough hot water for people to do washing up all day long, if they wanted to.

I was asking brother about it afterwards and he said she now basically criticises them all day long. She reins it in for people she doesn't know well but it seems she is getting bitchier and more critical of people she is close to (outside the family).

I've been doing a bit of reading up and yes, brother in the golden child. He remains very pleasant and I can't see that he is doing incredibly well from being in that situation. He still lives there (30s) and has been given a barn on parents' farm to renovate. He HAS renovated it, over a few years, and they have sort of signed it over to him on the understanding that no one else is allowed to live there with him. :-/ They won't sign it over to him properly and mum's new trick is to say if dad dies first, she will sell the whole lot, her house and the barn. Brother would then have lost the huge amount of money invested in it.

I shall add a little more, sorry to bore! No children this week so I can sit at the laptop and concentrate.

I'm nearly 40. Sister is 33, brother is 31. I find it impossible to really talk about my childhood (have had PTSD following crap marriage and seen 2 psychs and a psych nurse over 8 years or so). If I DO try and talk about it, people look so shocked that I feel bewildered and end up panicking and laughing.

Childhood was all about control (not by dad, but he was at work). I literally never realised anything was wrong. At 17 or 18 I thought one or two friend's parents were nicer than my mum, but thought perhaps they were "extra nice".

Eating - table manners that were impossible to stick to (too many to remember). Told how much to eat, when to eat, had to eat everything put out, nothing made especially for children and never (in nearly 40 years) asked what I would like to eat. Force fed when younger, say under 10. Food pretty unpleasant too!

Toileting - made to go to toilet before going out/when it suited her. She would sit on the side of the bath when I was primary school age, waiting for me to go (we're talking number 2 here, so often impossible). She would sit outside the toilet with sister (different house so just toilet in the room), telling her to go. Sister had psych help during 20s to learn to relax and use the toilet properly. She also once fed a hosepipe through the toilet window to get sister OFF the toilet. :-/

We were not allowed to leave our bedrooms after being put to bed so had potties - until we left home....

Friends coming round - not encouraged and in later years we were too embarrassed anyway. If they did venture round, she would go to bed, turn off all the lights, say I couldn't make them a meal (we were not allowed to cook anyway, see Food above) and it all got incredibly awkward.

Going out - we were 3 miles from nearest bus stop so she would say she would give us a lift, then change her mind 5 minutes before the bus was due to leave so we couldn't get there. She would hide our clothes, or one of our shoes, so we couldn't leave the house.

Money - never given any. No pocket money, nothing for treats. No clothes bought for us. We waited til our Aunty sent some for Christmas. I had the same uniform in year 10 as I had in year 7, despite being 7 inches taller. We DID have school shoes that she chose - so I was wearing brown, crepe soled sandals at 16.

Hair - she believed she owned our hair - that's the only way I can describe it. She permed mine twice while I was at primary school, despite my crying as she did so. She cut it (very badly). I had meningitis at 17 and as I came through the door, literally just back from hospital, I was sick from the effort. She held my hair out of the way, which seemed helpful, but while she had the front part in her hand, grabbed some scissors and cut it off short.

Criticisms - constant. I was spotty, due to my "terrible diet, lack of sun and from being dirty". Seems my sister was told the same. I was fat, had a manly walk, dumpy, grubby, lazy... I was too pale (?) and made to sunbathe for an hour, which she would time.

I have only ever really stood up to her once, last year. It was quite exciting as she turned into a woman possessed and screamed at me for 20 minutes for being gay. (I'm not gay).

That'll do for now!

Bit more...

I had always collected bits of pottery/clay pipes etc. Had them all in a big box. Should point out that parents' house hasn't been cleaned really in 30 years, since they moved in. Decided to apply for archaeology degree. Got home from sixth form to find box of all archaeological finds had been put in dustbin. Went to dustbin to get it out and she said "Oh, today is bin day...."

Favourite clothes would be found in the cupboard with squares cut out to be made into dusters. Sometimes I would get the squares and sew the clothes back together.

I had to ask to use my bicycle, play the piano, go for a walk.

I was the most badly behaved teenager ever known. Though in reality I passed every GCSE, A level etc and for entertainment was in the national youth orchestra.

My sister started various hobbies and once she got really involved, mum would refuse to drive her anymore. Sister says the worst thing was knowing her friends would be wondering where she was and would never know what had happened to her. We were not allowed to use the phone.

If we used electrical items without permission, she would cut the plug off.

I ended up marrying at 23 and he turned out to be ridiculously abusive and I ended up in a women's refuge with my children. Sister ran away from home constantly from 14 onwards (I find that amazing now my son is 14), ended up at 17 going out with someone nearly 40 who was not only massively abusive but also an alcoholic. She was with him for 7 years and it took her years to recover. Brother has never had (been allowed) any relationship at all.

Jesus Frith that's awful. You poor things. I feel so sad for those little girls being tormented on the toilet. What a fucking psycho bitch your mum is.

How often do you have to have contact? is your sis still in contact?

Hi All,

I have been off this thread for a few days over Easter so I hope everyone is OK and had a peaceful Easter.

I feel like a lot of my family stuff should go on AIBU rather than on here as I second guess myself the whole time as soon as I stand up to my family at all!

Same old this weekend - DPs triangulating and falling out with people - the endless drama, drama, drama. I am expected to listen to them bitching about these people and agree of course. I am sure they don't actually say half of the things to these people that they say they do, but they are so passive aggressive and really berate them behind their backs for doing nothing wrong - just doing what THEY want rather than what DPs want...

It doesn't make me wonder whether they do the same thing to me though - I KNOW they do.

I have finally started standing up for myself and it is going ok, despite the fact that I get referred to as hard hearted etc now - I am assuming that is an attempt to make me feel FOG and therefore get back to my usual / previous behaviour. I am trying not to do that but the O and the G is really hard.

I have tried to change contact a bit and not share emotional details of my life with DPs - they are not happy about it (I didn't tell them I was PG until after the 12 week scan for example) as it means they can't make it all about them and it is helping a bit, although drama is still being created. E.g. even though I told them it was 12 weeks and I was happy for them to share the news, DPs still told all of their friends the news but told them it was still a secret, presumably so they can pretend to everyone that they knew about it first.

I had to go to the hospital about DC this weekend and didn't mention it at all... Not because I am withholding information to hurt them, just because I can't cope with the drama and the fact it will be all about them and I will get 15 phone calls over the next week checking that he is ok and have I done this and have I done that... Not all out of genuine concern of course, (although there will be some) mostly out of drama.

It will also be spread around their friends as something that made DPs "Blood run cold - so stressful for me with me being so far away and with Hippy being so stubborn and cold - I thought something terrible would happen but whatever you do, don't tell Hippy - it's a secret"...

I have also had it up to hear with the birth horror stories from DPs... Not only have I heard the same story 10000000 times, but I have asked them now a few times to give it a rest as I would prefer not to talk about it, as I am getting ready to do it myself for the first time in a couple of months and had to ask them to stop again again this weekend - the look of hurt that I got in return was awful and the obligation and guilt makes all of the bad feelings come rushing back.

I felt like I should apologise for being snappy and unreasonable and go back to my old ways of just putting up with it even though it made me so unhappy and uncomfortable as that is the way things are supposed to be in my family, I protect everyone else's feelings and they don't give a shit about mine. I didn't do it though, I stuck to my guns.

I remembered that if this was a 'normal' family, my DPs would A - never dream of saying anything like this to me in the first place, B - would respect my wishes not to hear about it if they did mention it rather than making it all about them and C - wouldn't make me feel bad for asking them to respect my boundaries.

I feel like it is getting easier but that I am hurting my DPs... I am not 100% sure that I am doing the right thing and maybe I should just put up with it - is it really worth hurting their feelings after all these years?

Frith A lot of your childhood experiences are pretty similar to mine - I haven't got any real advice or anything as I am still struggling with my family but I am here in solidarity with you!

Hope you don't mind me joining, I just need somewhere to type out my thoughts, as situation with my mum has got difficult again, and I don't like the way I'm reacting , literally I want to run away. I feel so trapped.
I love my mum, she has lots of great and loving traits, but I have come to realise she is seriously messed up from her own childhood, attachment issues all over the place.

I had horrific depression in my 20's ,she felt comfortable with this as depression is in her family, 2 of my (biological)brothers have serious mental health issues, one cannot live without support. My mum has utterly enabled this, I think that she so didn't want us to leave she made us think we were sick and needed her help. I am angry about this, have no contact with brother(also alcoholic and nasty).My mother fostered lots of children always needs to be needed.

My depression got better, I had (have) very faulty thinking patterns about myself. I also realised that I was very competent ,had a good career, but to show any weakness to my mother, meant I was depressed (never actually did anything to help, just took over). Had a shite marriage with a controlling manipulative man, escaped, kept happy amicable distance from my mum.

She adores my children, obviously favours them over other grandchildren (actually told me this). So she then moved to where I lived, bringing all the family shite with her. I managed the boundaries here well, struggled when alcoholic brother then also moved to area, stayed calm remained nc with him. I did all of this while raising my children alone. They are now in their teens and are great , very 'normal'. My mum seems to struggle with this, and is always looking for problems, my children will leave and go and do there own thing and I am happy with that.

I moved again for work, somehow, I have been manipulated into a situation where I am seen as needing support, and my mother is my saviour. She has a house and I am going to rent it(much more complicated than this). Mum has no friends, she thinks she knows better than everyone, but needs to be always looked at as the one in the know.

My Dad is lovely,( I think he has Asperger's) his love for me is very uncomplicated. He has been unwell , I am scared what will happen when he dies, my parents also have adopted 2 (now adults) with disabilities. This along with my other brother will become my responsibility, and none of it is my choosing.
If I ever call my mother on anything, the quiet guilt, kicks in she has never said sorry for anything

I am crying now, I have worked so hard to free myself, and I keep getting pulled back in. I checked recently , my job is on the Australia, skills shortage list. I could go, leave it all. If you have got this far thank-you, it helps to write it down.

hippy I feel like it is getting easier but that I am hurting my DPs... I am not 100% sure that I am doing the right thing and maybe I should just put up with it - is it really worth hurting their feelings after all these years?

Feelings? they don't have feelings. They have the enjoyment of power, and the fury when you take it away.

Why not turn your question around and apply it to yourself instead. "Is it worth me going on and having my feelings and thoughts constantly undermined and criticised, my boundaries eroded and my anxieties deliberately played with, for the benefit of two people who will never ever care about me?"

dizzy welcome

The way you describe your family seems very similar to mine on the maternal side. Lots of enmeshing, engulfing, co-dependency, lots of hypochondria, lots of adult children still living at home being enabled. Lots of martyrdom and talk about "duty".

I think it's really hard to break away from a parent like this because after all - they're just being nice and loving, right? It's SO hard to call them on their behaviour, because on the face of it the behaviour seems well-meant.

Do you get a lot of passive-aggressive stuff from her too? Like if you say "I ask that you don't talk about that subject with me", do you get a lot of obvious "Oh... oh never mind. I was going to say something, but I've just remembered that I'm not allowed..." My mum does this and it makes me want to smash her face in. (Or did. We've been NC for a couple of months now.)

If I have one urgent piece of advice for you, it's do not move into her house. She will hold it over you for the rest of your life and it will be a perfect opportunity for her to erode your boundaries yet again. Do whatever you need to to avoid this. Move to a different, less pricey area, downsize to a flat, whatever. But DO NOT move into a property she owns. The only thing you have to tell her is "I'm not comfortable doing that" or "That won't work for me."

We often repeat the phrase on this thread, "No is a complete sentence."

Have a look back through some of the older threads - links are on the first page - and you'll see several posters with horror stories of what's happened when they've moved into property owned by parents. Parents waltzing into the house at any hour, reading posters' mail, constantly using the housing as an example of "look at everything we've done for you". Seriously - don't do it!

Pocket, you're mum sound similar to mine . Dizzy, I moved in with my mum and it was a total disaster. We are now NC. I had a long thread on here about it called my mother hates my husband. I was called badtoworse then.

your mum sounds

pocket I know you are right!

I think they do love me in their own way though, it is my DM who is the main offender and I think she has so many of her own issues following her own childhood (horrendous apparently) that it isn't possible for her to do a lot of the things that 'normal' parents do.

I do sometimes feel like I do really hurt her feelings if I act in a way she isn't expecting or that she doesn't want and that she feels like she has taken a lot of shit from me recently and doesn't know or understand why my behaviour has suddenly changes... I am more than reasonable incidentally - DH also thinks so, not just me saying it!

It's just so hard because a lot of people would say that her actions are coming back to haunt her in a way, in that I am not as close to her as she would like and our relationship is not a true mother / daughter relationship which she would absolutely want, but then again she did cause a lot of that. I just feel sorry for her and bad that she feels bad. I wish she could stop being so self absorbed. Maybe that make ME self absorbed!

Hippy, have you read up about enmeshment and codependency? I think you feel overly responsible for your mother's happiness. You aren't responsible for her, no matter how bad her childhood was, it doesn't mean your relationship with her is healthy.
It's hard to untangle yourself emotionally, but you need to do it bit by bit.

My mum's childhood was also awful. Her dad was an alcoholic who frequently beat her mum and both kids. My mum's earliest memory was of her dad chasing her mum with a knife saying he was going to kill her.

It must have been horrendous, but it's not an excuse. I've now had a horrendous childhood as well, but I'm not taking it out on my son. I've worked my bloody arse off to make sure I'm a far better parent (and even then she's influenced me at times when I was weak, e.g. when my husband died, which means I didn't give my son the support he needed when he was grieving for his dad.)

It's actually the way she's treated my son that's motivated me most to break off with her. Like, I could handle all her bullshit when it was just raining down on me. But my son doesn't have all the tough scar tissue I've built up over the years to protect him.

Goodtobetter I have read about it and I think there are some things there which are relevant - more for her than me though unless I am not understanding it properly...

As a child I feel like she was an engulfing mother to be DSiblings and ignoring mother to me (I as the scapegoat) and now we are all grown up and have all been estranged from her at some point, she feels like she gets on the best with me now and tries to be all engulfing mother with me - I find it really inappropriate and difficult although I admit that I have allowed some things as I think it makes her feel better. (I have been conditioned to always place the feelings and needs of others ahead of my own.)

I have also asked for her emotional support a couple of times in the past and have been and still probably am, pathetically grateful for it when she has given it, despite the fact that as my DM she probably should have given it any way, and that now she keeps bringing it up all the time as a subject for discussion, even when I am really happy "remember how miserable you were then? How things have changed!"...

She still has me safely in the scapegoat role now though, despite all of her attempts and engulfing - my DH is the golden child.

It is really hard to untangle myself emotionally... Thank you for your support...

Pocket I think it is my impending parenthood which has prompted a lot of my reflection and trying to change behaviour on this - I can't imagine allowing my child to have the same experiences I had as a child or the same awful influences on their self esteem and well being... I am working really hard to make sure I am a better parent than mine were but I know it's going to be a long journey as I'm going to have to protect DC from them too...

Yes, part of me realising things had to change was seeing how she was turning my DS into a golden child, I worried DD would become the scapegoat. (I was the gc with my mum and my brother the sg. Now I've gone NC with my mum the roles have reveresed and my brother is now the goldenchild and I am not so much the scapegoat as the EVIL goat I think).

hippy
"remember how miserable you were then? How things have changed!"...

I have found a very useful technique for random comments like this is to say "What an interesting thing to say. Why did you say it?/What made you think this was an appropriate time to raise it?"

It depends how aggressive your mum is though. With some narcissists they will fly into a rage when questioned like this. My mum would go in the other direction, start putting her hands over her ears and crying. Or sometimes say to me "You're just like your dad!" (He molested me!!)

Pocket I will give that a try!

I think her response will be that I am being defensive / difficult / taking things too personally, either that or she will make something up long the lines of she is mentioning it now because she told me things would get better and now they have etc...

I will definitely give it a go. Along with asking her how her comments are supposed to be helpful to me... Answer being that they aren't. they are designed to draw more attention to her in her self-cast role as amazing parent.

Depends on whether or not she has been drinking. If she has been drinking then it is probably safer to not say anything at all.

Yeah you will have to see how it goes and probably judge each occasion. However even if she goes off on one, maybe it would still feel better to you knowing that you stood up for yourself?

My mum is a great one for starting a sentence "I don't mean to be rude but I HAVE to say..." and then saying something breath-takingly rude, usually about my son or a comment on my appearance.

She did this the last time I saw her (Boxing Day - she remarked that my son smelled "awful") and I countered it immediately with "No, actually you didn't have to say anything at all, and you did mean to be rude."

That was the last time we spoke actually!

The hypocrisy is what gets to me. When we were kids we were constantly having "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" drummed into us, to the point where up until a few years ago I had major problems with asserting myself in pretty much any situation. Given the wrong change in a shop? Say nothing. Told your hairdresser to take 3 inches off and she stops after 1 inch? Just say "Oh yes that looks fine". Given shit food in a restaurant? Just eat it, or if you're a guest in someone's house, wrap it in your napkin when they're not looking and dispose of it at home. I'm not even joking, she used to do this literally every time we went to my Nana's house!!

these people are hideous Pocket !!

its making me cringe reading your post ^

so reminiscent of just the same. Just horrible. So judgemental, and i didn't notice it when i was younger, just took it all as 'normal'. this is what people did! Going along with her views when i was younger was the way to feel part of something. if i didn't supporther and her views i was the one being rude, deliberately difficult, trying to be hurtful, etc.

I would never have complained about anything, scared to speak, but then, older I found a voice and used it. I had to use services daily and learnt to complain about the things i wasn't happy with, then got with a FW who kept trying to shut me down all the time.. back to shutting up and silence again... god almight how do I find them!???

pocket I spent my whole chuffing childhood listening to people tell me how my dad had it bad, my dad had a bad childhood... Guess mine didn't matter then. I want to go back in time and scream: well I'm a child now, doesn't my childhood matter?

I think either he genuinely doesn't see that he made me feel like shit for fucking years or he just doesn't/didn't care. I have thought of writing him a letter telling him what a shithead he is but I haven't. Yet. Just gone NC. Am sweary tonight, sorry...

ha ha peppermint have your swear and get it out of your system

i didn't write and tell him, i just told him, thought he was going to take my head off, but i ducked

the answer: 'No' your childhood didn't matter, only theirs was important and after then having the childhood i had i just pray that i don't end up ranting at my DC about poor me and my childhood! Well, although they are obviously fully aware that we are NC, they rarely enter our conversation. Thats the way it should stay. Hell no, our own childhoods were irrelevant, we were of course privileged and didn't know we were born our lives were so great - wow, yes, thats what they thought

Oh yeah and my dad was always telling me I should be more grateful. Try being a bit more grateful, he said when he was the one who was fucking ungrateful

Therapist recently said: I don't understand what you were supposed to be grateful for?

Well fuck me, turns out neither do I. Thought I did.

So taking up the invitation to swear, clearly...!