sexless marriage, last schance saloon for kids. Any advice?

[lackofplaisirdamour]

Near the end of last year I posted a thread on here about my sexless,, but otherwise affectionate and loving marriage.

So after the 18 month posting where I was away, we got together again. It was and is lovely, very affectionate. Didn't pressure each other for sex, partly because I was ill with shingles and feeling rotten. Then went to visit our families for weeks over Christmas, and you can't really do anything about sex when one of you is in the parental guest room and the other is on the couch cushions on the floor in another room (yes our parents seem to think we are teenagers - and they would be terribly offended if we stayed elsewhere - easier not to argue to be honest, they are difficult enough as it is).

Then we got back home and have been doing lots of fell running, which has us out of the house at 7.30am on a weekend, and in bed sound asleep by 9pm. DH has been working manically during the week and when not out running on weekends - so he's up and off to work at 7am, home for dinner, works at the computer until 1am every night. He is working, not timewasting - the computer is in the lounge room, I can see what is on his screen.

So it's all affectionate, we spend time together doing things we love, but there has been no sex - i.e. we have had sex once since we got married, on our wedding night, 15 months ago. I'm not initiating it because he's either desperately working or in need of sleep, or asleep. He's not initiating it because he's too busy.

However, I now think he will always be too busy. We've had a discussion where we agreed we are in last chance saloon about having kids. We're both 38, nearly 39. We agreed that we needed to get the sex back on track whether or not kids happen. I tried to discuss the aspects of his work habits that mean i don't feel comfortable initiating it, i.e. it doesn't seem fair to prevent him from finishing something he's desperately trying to finish - but because he never says no to anything at work, this is how he works all the time. He agreed. And went back to the computer and worked until 2am.

I don't know if it complicates matters that I don't think he has a lot of respect for me, because my career has just ended and I am depressed and unemployed. He is very nice, tolerant, friendly, not judgemental to me - but I can see that he has much more fun talking to people who have stuff to say about their working life. I stay at home doing freelance work, reading and gardening. I never get to talk to anyone unless it's with the running people. He sees most of them at work through the week - they all have great careers, plenty of stuff to say, are self-motivated, etc.

Any advice?

*chance. Not schance. Heavens

Also, the discussion about having kids or not came out of a discussion about finances. He "is crap with managing his accounts" and "therefore" has accounts and pension all over the place in the three countries we've lived in, and hasn't enough time, ever, to sort it all out and get it down to one pension, a current account, and some invested savings. We were talking about how to get some financial advice on where/how to invest, so I made a spreadsheet of all the details we'd need to take to a financial advisor. I made this in December. He hasn't had time to fill it out or do anything about the accounts everywhere.

We have been together 10 years. I'm beginning to see that he will never actually sort these things out, no matter how many spreadsheets I prepare for him.

Meanwhile, he happily pays for everything (as my freelance employers are crap and I have no money) and frequently offers to buy stuff that isn't really necessary.

It's so nice when we're together. He is very affectionate. It's just the quiet obstinacy over sex and finances that make me wonder if this is all built on sand.

He talks positively of other workaholic academic friends who "have pressed the pause button" on their manic career trajectories once kids have arrived. As far as I can tell that amounts to the fathers taking 2 weeks of paternity leave and then going back to work. The fathers occasionally have academic breakfast meetings while walking their kids round the local park. As opposed to the breakfast meetings they used to have in the same park. I don't know what their wives think, given that I don't know them.

I have tried to say to him on many occasions that before I do anything about having kids, I would want more evidence that he was capable of a more equal partnership, and evidence he could take time to be a parent, than a vague promise of taking an interest in/paying for the kids once I'd produced them. It's a completely moot question anyway, of course.

If he won't make time for a shag to make a baby then he won't make time for a baby.

The question is - do you want him, no sex and no baby. Or no him and maybe sex and maybe baby. (Depending on if you meet someone in time.) Or single parenthood via donor sperm.

I think adoption is a non starter as it takes a lot of time, effort and commitment.

Mumoftwoyoungkids - sadly, I agree with you.

I don't know. Him, no sex and no baby is probably better than the alternatives at the moment. The relationship is fine otherwise, though I do wonder if we will end up resenting each other, me because of his obstinate non-communication about such fundamental things; him because he can't respect me because I have neither career nor children.

I just wish I knew whether the problems were "just" sex, or "just" lack of time to sort finances - or more fundamental.

You are obviously not happy because you are up all night writing about it.
Do you have separate bedrooms?

I'm wondering why your career is over when you are only 39.

Are you looking for work or could you retrain and have a new career.

I know that doesn't address the baby issue.

I think you sound very isolated, can you find some voluntary work to do whilst looking for a job.

I think if you somehow have a baby with him he will carry exactly how is life is now.

I do feel for you, but really haven't got any solutions.

paxtecum - I woke up when he came to bed. Often happens.

I was an academic, ran out of funding, hated my job, have no useful transferrable skills beyond being able to write and analyze, am completely burnt out, exhausted, depressed, feel like I cannot face any job that would be people-facing, and can't find anything within commuting distance that I could apply for anyway. I need to retrain, but I need to get my head in order first.

Obviously, the big question hanging over retraining is - do I throw myself into expensive retraining, university fees, etc.; or do I throw myself into being a mother for a few years and then retrain later?

Seeing it all written down, it's fairly obvious that the second option isn't sensible, and I should be making damn sure i am financially independent.

In some ways I wish hanging round on Mumsnet hadn't made me cynical and cautious. Had I leapt in, got pregnant some years ago, it probably would all have been all right. I'd have had the more normal path of going on maternity leave before I ran out of funding/ got burnt out. We could muddled through and probably would have done so happily. But now I feel like it's too late.

I should make clear that I could be financially independent if I just had a worthwhile job. I own half a house (no mortgage) with DH and have about 3/4 enough savings (locked away, and in my name only) to be able to buy the other half of the house, if we were to split. At the moment I have a very crappy freelance job that pays irregularly, and exploitatively tiny amounts. I am not really sure I could face a proper job at the moment though.

Also, i don't want to split. I'd just really like to be able to discuss all this productively and move forward.

Do you mind no sex? He seems like a workaholic and life will be pretty much as it has been, so if you have a child you'll probably be doing it on your own. Lots of women married to high flyers do that, so it's clearly possible and looks to be enjoyable to them too. My DH works an enormous amount and I'm on my own a lot with the 2 kids but we still make it work really well.

He treats me like an equal in the marriage though and we have lots to talk about.

I couldn't do the no sex thing personally but if you can then it shouldn't be an issue. He sounds nice, not selfish, just rubbish at sex and none work conversation. There's really no way of knowing what he'll be like as a dad, lots of hard workers spend quality time with their kids.

I think i'd mind the unequal-input, single-parent thing vastly more than the no sex. I am not a natural parent. I thought we had something that was an almost equal partnership - but it turns out that was only when we both had high-flying jobs and hardly saw each other.

He's just got up and cheerfully said "oh, sorry, whoops, I've got a really bad cold that I'll give to you. I guess that's from having been in 4 countries in the last 2 weeks! Ha ha! Oh well, off to work!"

I asked if he was planning to give it to everyone at work too.

Does he treat you as an unequal or do you feel like one because you don't have a full time job? If you are treated as less than for not working it'll only get worse when you have kids.

*I'm not a natural parent either and find it really draining. It does get easier as they get older and can talk to you.

Perhaps it's just coming to light to you that you actually have nothing in common.

Poor you

I get that you don't want to split, but I honestly think that in relationships you have to work with what you have.

It's highly unlikely he will ever be different. You need to decide whether or not you can live with this indefinitely.

I think it's more that I feel like one. He's kind and non-judgemental to me. But I can see him essentially light up when we meet other people and he starts chatting with all these other motivated people about work things.

I chat about mundane day-to-day stuff with the same people and we get on fine. But he's kind of on fire with them,having the kind of high-level scintillating conversation that I really miss from the good parts of academic life (and probably don't have the brainpower to hold, any more)

I agree with paxtecum above.

As a child looks very, very unlikely I would concentrate on getting your career back on track.

But going back to staying at your parents - who at the age of 38 and married puts up with having to stay in separate rooms? You allow them to dictate a kind of 'no sex' arrangement that ironically you also allow within your relationship.

Get back into work and meet other people. Get your own life back on track and this may give you perspective on what you want to do.

mrscynical and paxtecum - you are both probably right about work/career. I need to get my head sorted out to the point where I can handle pressure without becoming dysfunctionally stressed. i also need to work out what to do in terms of retraining.

Re the beds - our parents are just on the cusp of being "old" - our mothers in particular. They're both at the selfish, self-centred stage of cognitive decline where you couldn't really say there was anything much wrong, but they're prickly, old-fashioned, intransigent and unreasonable and easily "hurt" (i.e. transparently manipulative). For the sake of everyone's peace it's easier to just go with it. DH's parents put us in the same room at least, but he gets the bed and I get the floor. My mother kindly puts out the sofa cushions on the floor for me at the other end of the house, after installing and fussing over DH in the guest room, telling him not to work too late into the night.

I think, at 38 or 39, you need to come to a decision on the baby question.

Taking sex out of the equation, if you wanted to press that button you could have IUI, which is basically just inseminating you at the right point in your cycle, or using some stimulating drugs to time things at the optimum point. It is much simpler than IVF and much, much cheaper. It takes a phone call to a clinic, some tests and you can be ready to go within about six - eight weeks from now. However, you would need a sperm sample from your DH.

I am describing this because until I needed to know about fertility matters I was totally in the dark about what might be involved.

I think spending time outdoors gardening and being in the fells (not sure about running, but then I'm old) as you are doing is very healing and de-stressing for the mind and body.

Are there any charities that would benefit from your expertise?
I don't mean volunteering in the local charity shop, though that is useful and beneficial to the community.

I suppose it is easy for me to say volunteer for stuff - I had planned to volunteer in the HQ of a very large charity when I retire, but have been told that it is full of egotistical people and a quite unpleasant atmosphere.

I think we sometimes under estimate our talents and skills. You have a brilliant skill of writing, which I totally lack (as you may have noticed)
and an analytical mind.

I think you need to spend a few months in the sunshine doing the garden and when you have relaxed and your mind has covered make some decisions.
In the meantime would you consider going to Meditation or Mindfullness?

Maybe also get some good multi vits and minerals and possibly St John's wort to help build you up again.

Thanks paxtecum. Your name is accurate

Need to look for charities. There will be ones online as well as locally. I am trying not to return to last year's state of amlost mental collapse with stress, but eventually that will be most helped by getting out and interacting with people.

Maybedoctor- thanks for the point about IUI. I didn't know about it. Need to talk more to DH, possibly showing him this thread, and the other one in relationships at the moment that talks about workaholic business-owners.

I think it is sad that you are happy to accept this half marriage. I mean it cannot be doing anything for your self esteem can it? Don't you think you deserve better? And if you have children with him, will they one day be posting about a father who was absent emotionally? Sorry but I would leave and spend time on your own. I wouldn't show him this thread - what will that achieve? Keep it for you.

Cherryapple, you make a good point about the effect of absent parents on kids.

My idea of showing him this is to get productive discussion about where we go from here. Even if that means no kids, or possibly splitting.

As for deserving, well - I'm hardly Mrs Attractive at the moment, with a career behind me, depression and brain fog and a total lack of motivation and complete inability to cope with pressure. Whether or not I'm deserving, realisticaly, I'm not in a mental space for dating - and really I don't want to, as there is a lot here that's salvageable if we could only talk meaningfully.

I wonder about marriage counselling actually.

It's not really a marriage, it sounds like a friendship. (I know people can be happy in sexless marriages, but you aren't happy with it). Not haning sex saps your confidence.

Constantly thinking about your relationship will sap your confidence.

It's time to get some help to move on with your life, maybe counselling, or making that first step and effort to get a job. Anything, in a bookshop, coffee shop, meet some people who are different from your other friends.

Who cares if you don't have a career at the moment, and I am sure you are very attractive to the right person. Many of us have had depression - doesn't make us bad or undesirable. I will say it again - you deserve much better. How do you know the way he treats you isn't in some way contributing towards your feeling of depression? Because he doesn't seem to be helping or supporting you much from where I'm sitting.

I just don't want you to waste years on him - it all come to nothing, and then it may be too late for a family.

Also, you write well are articulate and obviously v fit. Baby steps towards getting your confidence back. Then....find someone you fancy....

You don't have a marriage. You have a friendship. That is all he wants. Someone perhaps to look after his needs while he works obsessively and share a home with but nothing more.

You would be mad to have children with him. I used to be an academic as did my DW. I knew academics at Oxford (all men) just like this. Mostly aspergers spectrum who were not able to function outside the narrow confines of closed academic life in an Oxford college. They 'light up' when they are with other academic people who are interested in what they are interested in and nothing else will cause them that excitement. They do not understand social relationships.

You need to look for another relationship.

I doubt very much you are going to get a productive discussion out of him at all - it seems as if he has other priorities that are far more important to him than your relationship, you, your happiness, your desire for parenthood, your financial security, your mental health. He isn't going to change. He also isn't going to get you pregnant.

It seems to me he is avoiding all discussions - very long working hours that he knows you won't interrupt, and presumably you don't have long meaningful discussions while you are fell running.

I feel that whatever happens next will have to be decided and driven by you alone.