sexless marriage, last schance saloon for kids. Any advice?

[lackofplaisirdamour]

Near the end of last year I posted a thread on here about my sexless,, but otherwise affectionate and loving marriage.

So after the 18 month posting where I was away, we got together again. It was and is lovely, very affectionate. Didn't pressure each other for sex, partly because I was ill with shingles and feeling rotten. Then went to visit our families for weeks over Christmas, and you can't really do anything about sex when one of you is in the parental guest room and the other is on the couch cushions on the floor in another room (yes our parents seem to think we are teenagers - and they would be terribly offended if we stayed elsewhere - easier not to argue to be honest, they are difficult enough as it is).

Then we got back home and have been doing lots of fell running, which has us out of the house at 7.30am on a weekend, and in bed sound asleep by 9pm. DH has been working manically during the week and when not out running on weekends - so he's up and off to work at 7am, home for dinner, works at the computer until 1am every night. He is working, not timewasting - the computer is in the lounge room, I can see what is on his screen.

So it's all affectionate, we spend time together doing things we love, but there has been no sex - i.e. we have had sex once since we got married, on our wedding night, 15 months ago. I'm not initiating it because he's either desperately working or in need of sleep, or asleep. He's not initiating it because he's too busy.

However, I now think he will always be too busy. We've had a discussion where we agreed we are in last chance saloon about having kids. We're both 38, nearly 39. We agreed that we needed to get the sex back on track whether or not kids happen. I tried to discuss the aspects of his work habits that mean i don't feel comfortable initiating it, i.e. it doesn't seem fair to prevent him from finishing something he's desperately trying to finish - but because he never says no to anything at work, this is how he works all the time. He agreed. And went back to the computer and worked until 2am.

I don't know if it complicates matters that I don't think he has a lot of respect for me, because my career has just ended and I am depressed and unemployed. He is very nice, tolerant, friendly, not judgemental to me - but I can see that he has much more fun talking to people who have stuff to say about their working life. I stay at home doing freelance work, reading and gardening. I never get to talk to anyone unless it's with the running people. He sees most of them at work through the week - they all have great careers, plenty of stuff to say, are self-motivated, etc.

Any advice?

It does sound worthwhile trying marriage counselling. This sort of situation is what it's for, no? It will tell you much if your DH agrees to go and attends regularly. And the process of discussing your relationship in a mediated environment might clarify things for you. But the result may still be that your DH is essentially happy with things as they are, and you are not. So worth thinking through (via counselling just for you? Or a life coach?) what it is in life you want to do next, and how to do it.

Agree volunteering with a charity where your skills are appreciated and contributing to a greater good is a good plan. PM me if you want advice about this- I work in 3rd sector so may be able to suggest some ideas.

As pps have said he sounds like a self-absorbed workaholic who prioritises work (and hobbies) over a relationship, and if nothing has changed since you've discussed it before is unlikely to change if you have DC.

It doesn't sound like he even wants DC or would make a good parent at all. no matter how great you were as a mother an absent, workaholic dad wouldn't be great for the DC.

it sounds like your mental health is quite fragile at the moment, eg you speak about your career in the past tense and yourself negatively (while seeming to put his job and his skills on a pedestal) and are ruling out many job options (or moving to an area with better opportunities for you as well as him) because you don't think you could cope. Have you sought help with your health?

There will be lots of options for you work-wise that might well not require expensive retraining, but you might need to address your mental health, build confidence and challenge yourself on your assumptions about the types of job you might try or location.

PurpleWithRed - yes, he is avoiding. You are probably right about his priorities.

MoreBeta - yes. We were at The Other Place , but you describe it well.

Bilberry/Cherry - your usernames are tempting me to move on to a nice apple & berry crumble for morning tea, first of all...

FaceLikeAFriendlyApple yes i think marriage counselling may be the most sensible next step to be honest. Will PM you re charity ideas when I have my head in a better space.

Duckdeamon - i'm about to start antidepressants, may eventually get some counselling, and am doing everything else I can to try to improve things.

Many academics do achieve a lot, work incredibly long hours, live an almost monastic life of obsession. DH is turning out to be one of them, after an unpromising start (I used to be the super high flyer - people wouldn't recognise us academically from 10 years ago). Doesn't mean it's healthy or compatible with the rest of the world - but it's really a great pity the Oxbridge college system no longer gives people like DH a refuge for life. He'd have been perfect for one of those sets of rooms (bedroom, office, room for teaching; bathroom in the basement) in the Gibbs Building looking over the back lawn of Kings, never needing to go beyond the Hall for meals and the Senior Common Room for a chat. The last one of those was carried out feet first, aged close to 100, soon after I arrived...

You still could be a high flyer, if you want. Or do something else and be successful (however you define it). If a monastic existence isn't your ideal (doesn't sound like it) you might need to leave DH to it and find what makes YOU happier.

I read the other thread. Am I right in understanding that you started suffering from depression soon after this relationship began and that you are still suffering now 9 years in? Self-esteem is for many people tied up with feeling desirable. If you continue a relationship with a man who doesn't desire you and finds endless excuses not to have sex with you, which I expect must feel humiliating as well as just frustrating, it seems likely that your self-esteem will suffer. Depression and loss of libido you describe are a natural consequence of feeling trapped in this relationship where you feel low self worth, surely?

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood. I understand your extreme reluctance to end this stable, safe relationship after a couple of bad ones. However I can assure you there are nice, attractive, emotionally available men out there who will want you physically and also share your dreams of parenthood. And even if there weren't - it seems to me that this "safe" relationship is very damaging to your sense of self and therefore long term mental health.

I'm going to be the first to say it, LTB.

He can't be that lovely. He knows how you feel about no sex, he knows that you are depressed and feeling shit about your work and he knows that you want a baby.

He is your husband, for Gods sake, he's supposed to be caring for you and fucking you senseless now and then and a bit more

While at his parents house - why do you get the floor while he gets the bed?? Does he decide on this or you? Or the parents?? Either way, get rid and move on op.

The only other thing I would say is that I found that parenthood rejuvenated me in ways that I had not thought possible.

It gave me the courage, space and opportunity to leave a career that had been grinding me down and affecting my health. It gave me new interests and a sense of urgency: I became a published writer during maternity leave because I was so damn angry about an issue relating to motherhood that I comtacted an editor, pitched a piece and wrote it in my son's naps. I retrained in a new voluntary role. I had time to sit in the park and watch the leaves fall. I was cut adrift from my old working life, but then managed to find a new role with colleagues whom I adore and work that is interesting, challenging and much higher status than my previous job. My new priorities set me free from all sorts of concerns, worries and inhibitions that had been holding me back before.

Bull is lack of sex because he's too busy.

Until you discover why he doesn't want to have sex with you rather allowing the pretence of him being too busy, you'll never get to the bottom of this.

Personally I think by the time you do get to the bottom of it your window of opportunity will have passed.

So you either accept a sexless and childless marriage or you leave. I'd not count on changing this when you make your decision.

I don't think counselling will magically make him want to have sex with you - sorry. But I do know it isn't your fault. You can't change the way he behaves - all you can decide is if you are willing to put up with this for the next 30-40 years. I know I couldn't.

Here is my very personal take on it, which might be completely wrong, but here is my offering....

Academia is a cult. You have done very well to get out, but it takes a long time to mourn the ideal/fantasy that might have been. Your DH seems like he is still in the cult, and it has real life consequences. Academics are basically expected to be obsessed with their work, to only be able to connect with other academics, and they often believe that doing anything else in life is a failure (look at the article of a few years ago in the Chronicle of Higher Education, called: "Is Academia a Cult?") On the other hand, you almost definitely have more skills than you think, and will find a career niche that you can be happy with outside of academia (although it might take a while.) But with your training, I think you might be overthinking the relationship a bit, as well as having babies, for which there is never a "right time".

Having my dd was the catalyst for leaving academia, and it was the best thing I have ever done, even though it has been a terribly wrenching process, having given up all my 20s and 30s to it. Having had her, I would never, ever sacrifice that for anything. If you want to have a baby, you need to prioritise it now - and that means dealing with the sex issue, and maybe looking into IUI or something else for extra help. Your DH sounds pretty nice really, but caught up in prioritising work, running etc. You need to prioritise what you want, or it will be too late. Be realistic, it may be too late to find a new man if you really do want to have a baby. Don't get too hung up on absolutely everything being perfect and equal in your relationship. Everyone's relationships have flaws and irritations; it's more a matter of deciding what is a deal-breaker for you. Sounds like it might actually be a good time for you to have a baby, take some time and then re-train. Don't get too hung up on who will do what labour with the baby; basically someone has to do it, and there is nothing shameful or degrading about carework imho.

You are depressed and essentially live with a housemate - there is nothing more between you by the look of it.
He is happy, you aren't.
I doubt he'll change and it's grinding you down.

I can't really see what you get out of this other than a wedding ring and someone who turns up occasionally, I really think you'd be better off with a dog - it would show you more affection for a start.

If you have a baby then you will have all your current problems plus a baby. Babies do not solve problem relationships, they tend to make them a lot worse.

What happens if you meet a man you really fancy who really fancies you? I think you are depressed because you are avoiding letting yourself meet anyone else and trying to make a man who won't see you as anything other than a house-mate run your life (because, reading your post, your life revolves around his priories, his life will never revolve around yours).

I should make clear that I could be financially independent if I just had a worthwhile job. I own half a house (no mortgage) with DH and have about 3/4 enough savings (locked away, and in my name only) to be able to buy the other half of the house, if we were to split.

No- whatever you have when married is not yours no matter how much it is locked away. it's 50% his. so don't think you can 'count' on keeping a nest egg. ALL assets will go into the pot and a court or solicitor would decide on a fair split of assets.

I think you ought to move on- and out. At 38 / 39 your chances of having a baby are declining quickly anyway. If you meet someone and get PG within the next 2-4 years then you might be ok- but time really is not on your side.

Your options are stay with your DH who doesn't seem to want sex with you- or anyone- and never have a child. or make the break and live your own life where you will have sex if that is what you want and a child might be the icing on the cake.

I think that- like many bright people- you are over-thinking the whole thing, tying yourself in knots when the situation is quite simple.

Unless you are happy to live as flat mates and friends, end this marriage.

I think the question is, if you want to be a parent you really need to be thinking about being pregnant in the next couple of years, regardless of what happens with your relationship. Lots of women do get pregnant post 40, but it can be much harder and the risks are higher - I am suffering from secondary infertility at 39 myself. Unfortunately your DH has the luxury of bumbling around for years while you try, split up and then can still have three children with a woman under 30 - sorry to say it, but it is true.

It might take months, even years to sort out the sex issues - put them to one side - if you want to be a parent in your situation then some form of fertility treatment (probably IUI) is an essential shortcut.

There is also fertility testing called Fertell, but a trip to a fertility clinic will tell you the same thing and you can then use those results as the starting point for your treatment. You may get something via the NHS, but the wait will be longer.

You need to sort out the 'no job' issue. A job - any job - will give you back your self respect, give you something else to concentrate on, help improve your depression and help you to meet other people as well as give you your own money.
Even part time is better than nothing.

It doesn't have to be a 'career' type job - I work as an HCA and get a lot of satisfaction from it as well as earning enough to keep my house going. Jobs like this are fairly easy to get.
You could do any type of job while thinking about what career you might like to do.

Next, worry about the lack of sex - I'm 38 and really want a baby, I'm panicking about the age thing but unlike you I don't have a partner. Not sure I'd be able to cope as a single mum.
But you have a husband - could you not dress up and make a date night that would end in sex, do this on a regular basis?
If not then I would seriously think about IUI as people have mentioned above because soon it will be too late to have a baby, husband or no husband. You need to decide ASAP about whether you really want a baby.
Also if he is not willing to do a 'date night' then I would question whether you really want to stay with a man who is unwilling to make time for you like that. Personally no sex would be a deal-breaker for me, but only you know what you would put up with.

Latara, I think OPs husband just isn't into sex at all and is very happy without it.

Life is so complicated isn't it?

I think MaybeDoctor and Miggsie are offereing good advice and have experience of the academia perspective.

I know two professors and they are both odd and totally wrapped up in their 'thing'.

Hmm, I posted on your last thread that you could probably make this work out, but reading what you have to say now, I agree with the posters who say you should think about ending this marriage.
Your H may be 'nice' in that he is pleasant company or at least non-violent, but he is thoroughly, fundamentally selfish. He really, really doesn't care that you are unhappy, insecure about your future and concerned that you may never have children, because your marriage is meeting his needs. As far as he is concerned, you are simply not important - at least, not as important as him. This goes beyond asexuality - yes, he probably is pretty much asexual, but a lot of asexuals are perfectly capable of being kind, responsible partners.

I also wonder how much of your depression stems from living with this man in the first place. If he has been quietly undermining your self-esteem for the length of your relationship while being 'nice' all the time, it's no wonder you think you are worthless now. Just how bad were your other boyfriends? It's possible you picked a man who is actually, subtly, very cruel just because he was such a contrast to previous men who were, perhaps, loudly aggressive or blatantly unkind to you.

He won't/can't change.

You have to accept that and then make choices for yourself.

There is no excuse for not having sex for 15 months, being too busy...no
you can make time.

Have you ever heard of the word asexual? look it up. It sounds like your husband.

OP apart from waking yourself up about the finances- ie thinking you can hold onto a nest egg and not share it in event of a divorce - you also need to stop living in a fantasy world where you write things like this:

I'm not initiating it because he's either desperately working or in need of sleep, or asleep. He's not initiating it because he's too busy.

No red-blooded, relatively young man avoids sex because he is too busy. You are intellectualising this all far too much. Some of the most alpha men who are running huge organisations and are very busy, are also very sexual and want a lot of sex. It often goes with the territory.

You appear to be inventing excuses for his behaviour, or believing things he has said, rather than seeing the marriage for what it is and him for what he is.

To have allowed your marriage to be sexless beyond your wedding night is bizarre- to allow that to continue for 15 months when you are running out of time to have a child is even more bizarre.

You need to cut your losses- he won't change- he's had time to- and if you stay it will be more of the same.

OP I have now read all your posts- including the ones about sleeping arrangements at your parents and in-laws.

This raises in my mind many questions about your judgement and your lack of assertiveness.

You show the same 'liberal' attitude to the quite frankly unacceptable behaviour of your parents, and in laws, as you do with your Dh and his excuses about no sex.

I don't know why you are so compliant. Do you? It is totally ridiculous that a parent would not allow their daughter - married- to share their guest room with her husband. Your parents' age is not the point and if you are 39 they can't be much more than 70 I assume- they'd have been part of the swinging 60s!!!

You appear to accept totally unacceptable behaviour from all the people in your lives who ought to love you and care for you.

Why is this? Have you always been like this? How was your childhood? How can you put up with a man who takes the bed at his parents and allows you to have the floor? or a mother who gives you cushions on the floor instead of sleeping with your DH?

I don't know how you can begin to sort out your marriage or any future relationship until you open your eyes to what appears to be a form of emotional abuse and unkindness which is prevalent in all your relationships- with you accepting it all.

I suggest you have some long term counselling to help you because your low self-worth and lack of anger at how people treat you is at the root of all your indecision and confusion.

I don't have much to add about the relationship, but from your posts so far you're a good writer, and that's a talent in short supply everywhere. I'm in academia myself, and have stepped sideways off the up-or-out track. When I was considering what to do after my first post-doc, I attended some courses at the university about careers for people with PhDs. One thing really stood out to me: because we specialize to such a fine point, we lose track of all the skills we acquire that can be applied to other fields of work. Could you have a chat with your alma mater's careers department to see if you can access any support through them?

The other thing I might suggest is to get out there and build a network - e.g. gardening = allotment society, reading = book group, running = pub afterwards. Be open that you're looking for work and transitioning out of academia. It's really really hard to do this if you are an introvert, I know, but the old 'fake it till you make it' is a truism for a good reason.

lackofplaisirdamour - You do have transferable skills - I used to be an academic and I use my skills elsewhere now. I posted a lot on a recent thread aimed at academics that many female academics massively undervalue themselves and are underpaid for their skills and badly treated in many cases.

You need a job, financial independence and a new outlook on life and a new life partner. They are all linked together.

Thanks everyone. Lots to think about here. I need to think more before i respond to the ideas of ending the relationship.

I need to talk to DH about the urgency re: children and changing to make time for things other than work.

Pinkfrocks - when we were drawing up wills, our solicitor advised us that things bought jointly would be split 50:50 (so we have contributed 50:50 to all house stuff), but separate finances held from long before our marriage would continue to be separate, except in a case where it was up to the courts to carve them up.

I think this may have stuck in DH's head and therefore he is possibly being slow about consolidating his finances because of this advice. In my current position I'd probably rather agree to leave with my own nest egg, than use the nest egg paying a solicitor to rake through everything. Unclear what DH would do but I suspect he'd be too busy to be bothered.

Hello Lack

I believe the current state retirement age in UK is 68-70, so potentially you have lots of working years ahead of you !

If you are not working
If you have some savings why dont you book yourself onto some singles holidays & meet some new people like; ramblers walking holidays, eco nature holiday, volunteering holiday, well being holiday like yoga, healthy eating or just go back packing, group sailing holiday, painting holiday, multi destination holiday etc
Get away and find yourself & decide what you want
You may even get offered a job on your travels - it doesnt matter what sort of job, but if someone offers you something take the opportunity
You will meet new & interesting people
I am suggesting this, because I know people who have changed their lives for the better - go with the flow !

I doubt if your partner will even notice that you are away

Your current life seems to have stagnated & you sound unhappy - where has the FUN gone ?

You need to get "the sparkle back"

It sounds like your partner will not change - Do not try to change him

WANT more for yourself & make it happen !

Sorry, but I do not see much future for you both

I guess the decision is stay with your husband for next 50 years & be miserable or start a fresh new happy life !

Good luck