sexless marriage, last schance saloon for kids. Any advice?

[lackofplaisirdamour]

Near the end of last year I posted a thread on here about my sexless,, but otherwise affectionate and loving marriage.

So after the 18 month posting where I was away, we got together again. It was and is lovely, very affectionate. Didn't pressure each other for sex, partly because I was ill with shingles and feeling rotten. Then went to visit our families for weeks over Christmas, and you can't really do anything about sex when one of you is in the parental guest room and the other is on the couch cushions on the floor in another room (yes our parents seem to think we are teenagers - and they would be terribly offended if we stayed elsewhere - easier not to argue to be honest, they are difficult enough as it is).

Then we got back home and have been doing lots of fell running, which has us out of the house at 7.30am on a weekend, and in bed sound asleep by 9pm. DH has been working manically during the week and when not out running on weekends - so he's up and off to work at 7am, home for dinner, works at the computer until 1am every night. He is working, not timewasting - the computer is in the lounge room, I can see what is on his screen.

So it's all affectionate, we spend time together doing things we love, but there has been no sex - i.e. we have had sex once since we got married, on our wedding night, 15 months ago. I'm not initiating it because he's either desperately working or in need of sleep, or asleep. He's not initiating it because he's too busy.

However, I now think he will always be too busy. We've had a discussion where we agreed we are in last chance saloon about having kids. We're both 38, nearly 39. We agreed that we needed to get the sex back on track whether or not kids happen. I tried to discuss the aspects of his work habits that mean i don't feel comfortable initiating it, i.e. it doesn't seem fair to prevent him from finishing something he's desperately trying to finish - but because he never says no to anything at work, this is how he works all the time. He agreed. And went back to the computer and worked until 2am.

I don't know if it complicates matters that I don't think he has a lot of respect for me, because my career has just ended and I am depressed and unemployed. He is very nice, tolerant, friendly, not judgemental to me - but I can see that he has much more fun talking to people who have stuff to say about their working life. I stay at home doing freelance work, reading and gardening. I never get to talk to anyone unless it's with the running people. He sees most of them at work through the week - they all have great careers, plenty of stuff to say, are self-motivated, etc.

Any advice?

In my current position I'd probably rather agree to leave with my own nest egg, than use the nest egg paying a solicitor to rake through everything.
Wouldn't everyone?

But you may not have that choice. If you do divorce, his solicitor would decide what he ought to get and that may include some of your nest egg. Or your DH may get nasty and try to get what he thinks is his share.

If you have lived together for 10 years then married it would be hard to say what was 'yours' and what was his as you have been sharing a home for many years. You may have only been able to save because he earns a lot and you don't need dip into your nest egg. You have accumulated money because of his good earnings in other words.

You need a divorce lawyer not one who does wills.

I still say think about how you allow people to treat you.

My SIl is married to a workaholic super clever man with a serious chronic disease. She has effectively parented their children alone for 95% of their lives. Her DH is in many ways a lovely man yet simply cannot compromise on his work. Ever.

You say up thread you cannot see yourself parenting without his support but the reality is that you would have to. He will not change.

I wonder if his lack of enthusiasm for sex is his way of ensuring that children don't enter into the equation. What would happen if, on a Saturday morning you jumped him instead of fell running? You say you don't instigate sex either...why not? It really sounds as if neither of you actually wants sex at all. Which does lead to the question if this marriage is what you hoped for in any way at all? Some marriages are happy and successful without any sex but many others are not.

I have no answers for you but wish you well. I'm sure your career will get back on track, you are bright, hard working and successful. The children issue is more important just now because time is running out and you are at a stalemate. Sorry, I hope you find a way.

I'm sorry you're in this situation. Everyone can find 20 mins a week to have sex, busy-ness (unless you have newborn triplets!) is a really poor excuse.
I would definitely recommend counselling (for you) to help build up your inner strength. And he needs to step up or let you go and build the life you want.

From reading your posts in this thread and the other, it strikes me that the issue is not really your husband or your relationship, but your own feelings about yourself and the way your life has panned out.

You keep saying that your dh says all the right things but then follow it with a 'but I know that he really doesn't mean it, after all, I am now [something that makes you sound unappealing]'.

I have been where you were. I gave up my career in my 30s, exhausted, burnt out and bored out of my brain. I was the best thing I could ever have done.

First, give yourself time. I took a whole year to effectively space out. I went to museums, ballet, the theatre, various sports, you name it. Didn't even contemplate the thought of work during that time.

Then I began to think laterally. What did I actually really enjoy, and what would life be if I spent most of my time doing it? For me it was something that had no intellectual content whatsoever (which was kind of weird, as I am fairly highly educated and was physically pretty crap before).

And oddly, since I have been doing that, my intellect has somehow began to flourish again, by reading things I actually enjoy, and actually taking the time to think about things just because they are interesting, nothing else.

And with regards to the children - I was the one who didn't really want children, and when I was pg I panicked slightly that I would have no parental instinct whatsoever, but oddly as soon as they were born instinct took over and I was happy as can be mothering them for all they are worth. You never know how you are going to feel about things, so I wouldn't worry too much about that before you are there.

pinkfrocks - there's an assumption in there that I haven't voiced, re the finances. Sorry for sounding like a squirrelling silly person.

His pensions, savings, and salary have always been larger than mine. We have always paid 50:50 for rent, bills and food prior to buying our house 50:50 and paying equally for all maintenance on it. We have only been in the current situation of him paying all bills and food, for 4 months. So if a divorce court had to split our assets 50:50, and assuming they had access to all the information about DH's assets (which i recognize they might not), then my assumption is that it would be less about me paying stuff to DH, and more about to what lengths I was prepared to go.

That is a minor issue here though. I need sleep, but also need to think over everything said here, and talk to DH, and work out what to do.

sorry for making the wrong assumptions about your finances. However, I was really only repeating what a solicitor told me years ago when our marriage was in trouble. I thought I'd be able to hang onto my savings, as a low earner, but was told that ALL assets have to be declared- it's evidently breaking the law not to in a divorce settlement- so pensions, classic cars, stamp collections- you name it- anything of value goes into the pot and it's divided maybe 50-50, or 60-40 or whatever, depending on the earning capacity of each person, the age of the couple, whether there are children, the length of marriage etc.

I agree with other people who have said your issues in your marriage have a more fundamental theme- namely your inability to assert your wishes. You appear to fight shy of confrontation and accept poor behaviour not only from your DH but your families. I know many couples who visit elderly families and although it needs a 'deep breath' to break the news, many do decide to stay in a local B&B if the family home is too small. Or at least get their parents to understand that married couples do share a bed! I just can't get my head round how you can be accepting of that kind of treatment in the same way you accept your DHs excuses about 'lack of time' for sex or a proper relationship.

I hope you can seek some counselling to help you understand where you behaviour has its roots because you do need to learn to stand up for yourself.

I suspect your sex drive, or lack of it, is very much bound up with your parents' influence. I mean, if they're not letting a married couple in their late thirties share a bed, they must have some major hang-ups themselves that they've passed on to you. Worth some counselling, I would have thought.

Personally if my in laws/parents expected me and my dh to sleep separately I'd impose the same rules at my house when they stayed! What's the difference?

Your parents treat you like kids! Not letting you share a bed. You sound like friends not a married couple. Stop the fell running (whatever the fuck that is) and spend a Sunday in bed shagging! I know which pursuit I'd prefer.

Sorry to say but it's time for you to make the choice do you want to be in a sex less marriage without kids, move one find someone else to make a family with or go for the single parent route.

you could go and have a baby and stay married he may not notice or even mind.

As for the lack of sex we all know if we want sex we can get it maybe join a swingers club us single girls are always more than welcome and attract a lot of attention. I go now and then and just have a WOW of a time.

Have you ever thought he may be gay but just doesn't know it???

there is a lot here that's salvageable if we could only talk meaningfully

I'm sorry to be blunt but you have been together 10 years, if you can't talk meaningfully after all that time then I don't think it actually is salvageable.

I'm an academic myself and agree with all the previous posters on this. You speak of 'busy' as if it's a condition imposed on him by some dictator, at the end of the day he chooses to be this busy with work and running. You need to see that clearly.

I think you should definitely get some counselling for yourself and start unpacking these issues. I agree you are overthinking things.

Join a swingers club as fuzzy advises

Is he gay? I k ow its a bit random but it just seemed to jump out to me.

If you are still reading OP what strikes me is how you are poor at communicating.
Although you are bright, you are unable to talk frankly to your DH or your parents. You said yourself in your first post here that you don't feel comfortable talking about these things with him- because it's unfair as he is busy with work. Can you step back and get some perspective on that and see what a bonkers thing it is to say?

Your first post is full of excuses you make for other people (and yourself) about their behaviour.

I can't see any hope for your marriage if you cannot even talk to your DH about something that as fundamental as having a child together.

As others have said - get a job, or do voluntary work, make yourself interesting, get a group of friends who are not necessarily academic and who are not part of your DH's circle.

There is a tendency for some academics- seen it here loads- to over- analyse and really miss the real truth of a situation.

And please go and talk to someone about how you allow others to impose their behaviour on you and you are afraid to stand up for your own wishes.

still reading; still thinking; sudden spike in busyiness for both myself and DH, but we have begun to discuss all this. Thankyou all for your advice.

Yet more busy-ness stopping you tackling the most important thing in your life?

(For someone who has posted that you no longer work, except a bit of freelancing, a bit of gardening etc, you seem very occupied with other stuff.)

I don't think you need discuss with your DH at all. You need to work on yourself and your values.

He treats you, frankly, like shit. If you can't see that and still want to discuss (what?) with him, that is very sad.

I'm afraid I thought that he might be gay as well.

You need to think about where you want to be in 10 years time. Is it still doing this?

I've just read your old thread which you linked to.

I wish I'd read it before!

Your previous post:

It's fairly obvious that the elephant in the room is that neither of us actually enjoys sex with the other, at all, and never really has. And we each feel very guilty about that, and can't really discuss it functionally.

Before DH, I had 2 boyfriends who were emotionally unavailable immature arses. But my god I found them attractive, and the sex was very good, even if emotionally it was all awful. From the first time with DH, it hasn't been any good.

_
Honestly, why did you go ahead and marry this guy? You have said all along that the sex was rubbish between you. You have gone from relationships with men who were arses,emotionally, but where the sex was good, to one who is still an arse but in another kind of way, and the sex is useless.

FGS woman get your arse into gear and leave the marriage because in another 5 years you will be a poster bleating about how you messed up any chance to have a child and here you are at 43 in a sexless marriage.

Florisapple is 100% correct. Academia is a cult. And a Ponzi scheme.

I had a high flying academic career and it gradually dawned on me that I was incredibly miserable and unfulfilled and burning out. I left when my contract was up and I've never looked back. Now it wasn't easy - I spent a few years in very low paid jobs trying to get a foot on the ladder in another industry, but five years after entering that industry I'm earning almost 3x what I did in academia.

It's a cult because you're groomed to believe that you are a failure for leaving. That you have no transferable skills. That life outside is inferior. That is bollocks. Absolute bollocks. If you're smart enough to be an academic AND you have some degree if people skills ( which many don't) you're ok. Honestly, you are. What area are you in?

It's a Ponzi scheme because there are hordes of cheap dispensable post docs and phd students and so few top jobs. It's just not healthy or sustainable.

I also nearly married a compulsive fell runner. Lovely, lovely guy, but again it gradually dawned on me that fifty more years of this was not what I wanted. Making the break from academia and relationship was very tough. I've also never had a single moment of regret.

You're at a critical junction here. Think very carefully about what you want and even more carefully about what you don't want.

Get that depression treated and if you need any advice on leaving academia just ask . I'm very happy to let you know how I did it

Skiptonlass - I fully agree with every word of your post. I left academia too as did DW. It absolutely is a cult and a Ponzi scheme and yes I do earn a lot more now even after having had a ten year SAHD break.

Apart from a chosen few of very well connected people (who make Professor regardless of ability) there is no future in academia - they can always hire a desperate immigrant PhD student from E. Europe, China, S. America, or wherever to do your lecturing job for you and they don't care about your research now that REF is over with.

Thanks for the further contributions.

I have started antidepressants. I have had several short discussions about priorities with DH, and I am planning to discuss it all further this evening. I have already said I think we need marriage counselling and that his priorities need to change if we have a future.

Re: inconsistency over work patterns and my apparent excuse-finding:
I do freelance work with very short deadlines, so while it isn't much of a job (in terms of it being very exploitatively paid and a zero-hours contract), there are some hours in the week where I simply cannot just stop everything and sort out a long discussion with DH. This week has been a good week for being given jobs, but I can't turn jobs down or I don't get any in subsequent weeks for that month. Tonight will be the first night this week where I haven't an 8pm deadline followed by a 12pm deadline the next day. I am up now to start the job due at 12, given that I was awake anyway, feeling sick because of the antidepressants.

Just re: leaving academia - I have left. At the moment I am burnt out, depressed, can't handle pressure, and find dealing with people is too difficult. My people skills are crap and always have been - I am introverted, people who don't know me see me as "cold and humourless", and I get ground down too easily by observing and being distracted by twattish behaviour. My freelance job is ok on the people front because I only deal with my employers electronically and the deadlines are so short I don't get time to be overwhelmed with dread and procrastination.

So in terms of transferrable skills - I have writing and editing skills, some programming, some lab skills. The programming isn't really at a standard that would let me perform independently in an IT or analytical job, but if I went back to university I could probably get up to that standard fairly easily. This would also have the advantage that i could possibly continue to do (better) freelance work or remote work, I wouldn't necessarily have to cope with a workplace or colleagues, and I wouldn't have to find the people skills that would be required for almost any job other than IT.

Also - having looked back at my OP I said there I am unemployed.
A better description would have been underemployed.

At the time I wrote the OP I hadn't had any jobs for a while; and I am looking at job boards and - as I haven't yet been paid in this job - am effectively acting financially as though I don't have a job. Thus the use of "unemployed".

Time-wise, though, the hours I work in a week vary from zero to something like 40 and I either keep life free to accept jobs, or I don't and potentially end up with a clash, turn down a job, and get no more jobs that month. Thus we do nothing that requires planning in advance, and weekend runs aren't longer than 4 hours. We wouldn't be doing loads of stuff anyway - for all the reasns posted above - but written down, this description is of a pretty crap job. It's another thing that needs fixing somehow, probably by quitting and going back to university.

Did you have a honeymoon? Did you not have any sex then? I think avoidance is the big issue. I work in a bug FTSE and the very senior guys seem to have bigger families, often 3+ kids. They typically work 80 hour weeks. I think you need to cut down on the running too to make sure there's some energy left for sex.

I think you need to look at this more honestly.
You have never had a good sexual relationship with this man. If it was a case of it going off the boil due to work etc that would be one thing and there's be some hope. But that's not so-is it? Your old thread shows just how bad the whole thing has been for all the time you have been together.

It's easy to make work the scapegoat rather than the fact that you just don't click sexually. As a person who is intelligent you are seeking a rational, logical explanation and remediation for a problem which is basically about chemistry.

I feel very sorry for you because I think you are showing a fatal mix of being stubborn, blind, and insecure. Your depression is coming from your inability to face up to what is in front of your nose and to accept it- plus your already low self worth.

You don't need drugs, love. You need to end this marriage and start again.

If you don't like pressure, don't freelance- it's a killer and if you are working at midnight, unless you desperately need the money or get some kick out of having some work- any work- then why the hell are you putting yourself through that?

You are never going to have great sex- or maybe any sex- with this man. Why do you keep ignoring your history and hoping it is going to change?
It's not going to. Counselling won't make him horny for you - he never was- and you said yourself you felt awkward or whatever with him.

You are young enough to have kids if you leave now. You are young enough to train all over again- do another degree, do something vocational, go on a gap year, do anything except waste more of your life.

You need confidence to change your life- not ADs.

But first you've got to stop kidding yourself that sex is going to work- cos it aint.

I think posters in here are being incredibly generous giving so much advice. Are you going to 'do' anything to change your miserable existance and marriage? I suppose it's ok too to just come on for a rant and moan.