Surviving an affair....long overdue update

[LetsGoToTheHills]

Dear Mumsnetters,
Two years ago I posted on here after discovering my husband's affair. I asked you whether we could survive. I had many fantastic suggestions and comments as well as some difficult but insightful questions put to me. We had about 10 counselling sessions immediately, and it's been really hard work but I would say we are, finally, pretty much back to 'normal'. It was a horrible, horrible time, and just thinking about it makes me feel sick, but you all got me on the right path. So thank you to everyone who bothered to post, it did make a difference!

Jan45, What difference does being married make? I don't think my partners betrayal would have felt any different if we had been married.

I also don't understand why being married makes any difference. Surely it's the length / depth of the relationship that matters.

Do only married people cheat then?

I think a lot if advice on here looks like LTB advice, but is really a lot more about dispelling myths, pointing out reasonable boundaries and validating appropriate feelings. It looks like LTB because that's such a logical conclusion (once you get passed society's general man-pleasing response to an affair).

I'm with you btw Jan. I think the advice on the saving marriages support thread is often damaging.

Why is it damaging? no-one claims: stay in the partnership AT ANY PRICE. All we say is that a long term and deep relationship and a family life are PRICELESS. For us it is worth working to keep them together. Of course if one of the partners is a complete bastard who at NO stage (so what if we give them time to grasp the 'enormity ' of their bad deed?) understand their value then LTB is the best advice. Of course if you find them overrated then by all means the hell with the 'basket' and go somewhere else. But who are you to judge us? About the kids: we who try to keep the family together (regardless of whether we are married or not) understand perfectly that if we are not happy in the relationship then this will negatively impact our kids. As LetUsGo said the kids are just the initial driving force when the first stages are very difficult and the betrayer is behaving as a bastard.
Jan45, from what I have seen more often than not the women who tend to give a second chance to a cheater are well educated and emotionally well grounded (please do not incorrectly read me: I do not mean that the one who LTB are not or are wrong). In the old days women had indeed no choice: society did not see with a good eye divorce and they were financially dependent on their husbands. Things have changed. And the relationships that do survive cheating are usually the relationships where BOTH partners work hard at keeping them. Again as LetUsGo showed us in their journey that does not mean that both work all the time and simultaneously hard at keeping it, but after the initial stages each of them and both do work at it hard most of the time.
I do not understand why we cannot allow to people to make mistakes and atone for it by their behavior.

I'm with a partner who had an affair, and many of the negative comments on here just make me shrug my shoulders. I'd probably have said all of them before I lived through the experience. I go by my own situation and I can safely say I like my DH much more now than I did before. He was previously a very selfish self absorbed man obsessed with his career and success. What he did has made him realise he's no better than any one else, and has the ability to be a real bastard to the people who care about him. That humbled him. He's nice now. Different. Completely selfless and a huge support to both me and our dcs. If I met him now, yes I'd marry him. That's my criteria. If you look at your partner as they are now, would you still marry them? There are plenty of marriages unsullied by an affair where one or other of the couple wouldn't say that.

However, I could depress myself by focussing on every negative emotion expressed above and walk away from what is currently a happy marriage. Sensible? I don't think so. I read something which put it like this. If you have survived cancer, should you rejoice in your new lease of life and make the most of every day given to you, or should you deny yourself any pleasure in life on the basis the cancer might one day return?

Some can be very narrow minded and short sighted....I don't advocate for stay or go, I just think that it is important that someone who has asked for support gets it, that they feel they can share all the conflicts they have got going on in their heads without being judged for it. People need to get there in their own time and the only people who really know what goes on in a relationship are the people who are in it

I am glad you are happy Lets as it sounds as if you have really been through it

Exactly Mama and Worse. If he gets to the point (and it can take time) when he says 'what the hell was I thinking? I will make amends for this' and you can actually maybe even create something better, then it's worth a shot. We rarely argue any more. Having looked over the edge, we don't take each other for granted and we are usually just plain nice to each other.

What I have learnt is like Mama said I think, there is no black and white any more. This understanding has felt like growing up!

I had a friend whose husband got into massive debt behind her back. Symptoms very similar. I wonder whether this betrayal would cause some people to cry LTB? They have also worked things out, as both partners were willing.

Worse, I like your story. It is a survivor's story!

I just think that it is important that someone who has asked for support gets it,

I think that this is important, as wherever we lie on the spectrum we can all agree to this.

LetsGoToTheHills:

I think most people reading this actually wish you well, but struggle with their own (ingrained?) ideas of what should happen in your situation.

I wish you well in your decision and hope that you are genuinely aware of what your 'wants' are and that they are being fulfilled.

Do,you,think being nice to each other is enough without romance/passion that connection of being into each other!

Ive never suggested to anyone here at MN to LTB because I don't believe an affair has to be the end of the world. And try I certainly did with mine, for a few years, before finally deciding that my marriage was over and separating had to come next.

Ive been trying to word a reply to Letsgo but nothing has come across the way I intended it to and its easier to agree with Noddy when she said, Do,you,think being nice to each other is enough without romance/passion that connection of being into each other!

And I also agree with Lacoba when she said I think most people reading this actually wish you well and I wish you well in your decision and hope that you are genuinely aware of what your 'wants' are and that they are being fulfilled.

I havent changed my mind about how Letsgo marriage come across to me because her last few posts have only confirmed my original thoughts, but I genuinely do wish her the very best.

In the past, I would always have said LTB,
But when it happened to me that wasn't the first thought, because in all the time the A went on, we still were "us" in our marriage, and although I was more angry & hurt & broken than I ever knew was possible, the worst bit was that I still loved him, he had never been mean to my face, hurt me to my face etc etc, up to the point I found out, I still loved him, and wanted to believe tat he hadn't done those things,
There isn't an off switch to just turn that love off, and after the initial rage / anger / disbelief settles, you are left feeling so confused as the person u love most in the world & that would normally comfort you in times like this is the one who hurt u, and they are there crying & hurting with you as reality suddenly hits them & they realise the depth of their actions
It really is hard to explain ...

I was looking at the additions to another thread and realised Ive answered posts by Letsgo without realising I was replying to the same lady on two threads.

Both times my replies were the same on each thread even though the posts were different.

As I said before I absolutely do not believe an affair has to be a death knell on a marriage but one would expect that 4 years down the line a person would have stopped crying during intimacy that very rarely happens and the situation would have a lot more going for it than has been portrayed.

Its a very sad situation and I wish better things for Lost sooner rather than later.

Im so sorry, and embarrassed, it was Lostmummy I replied to on another thread.

My apologies, but hopefully people will realise by now that I do not belong to the LTB club.

Weebirdie, I think what you're saying actually echoes my original points about how mumsnet was so useful to me. People put things to you that they wouldn't necessarily in RL (i.e. they're harsher!), and make you question yourself thoroughly. So I can have a think, say yes I accept I come across as unhappy, here are the reasons (I was talking about an unhappy time), but now I am certain my future does look happy.

Noddy, I believe that more passion and romance will come, though not like in the first 3-4 years of a relationship! I still maintain that in a marriage being kind and appreciative, trusting and understanding each other and feeling you've got through a difficult experience together make for a stable long-term partnership, and 'passion and romance' are not always realistic desires. I think that most couples with young children have a similar marriage in this regard (affairs or not).

My other thought is that the LTBers or those who may come across that way are often sending the message 'stand up for yourself! Don't let this man walk all over you! You deserve better than this!'. This is a good thing. There are so may people on here who put up with dreadful behaviour time and time again.

What some of us are saying is that there can be another way away from the image of a downtrodden, ashamed partner who just accepts her lot. We say I can survive this as a strong, independent woman with my self-respect intact (or indeed improved). I refuse to be a victim here, and I will set my own terms and together we will make something better.

Letsgo, thank you for accepting my apology so graciously. Ive been ill for about 5 weeks now with a virus thats taken its toll on my health and Im very easily confused mentally

I agree that mutual respect and friendship are vital but for me it's thr passion etc that differentiates my relationship from other friends I have. But maybe that is just me. My ds is at university and tbh I think the spotlight is really on the relationship ovine your children are more independent as there needs to be something to keep you interested I applaud those who make it work because I know I would be far more selfish and would want to walk away

I don't think any woman should stay after an affair for the sake of Her children!!!! Goodness me why oh why would you? If a husband/ father didn't have enough love, respect and willingness to keep on giving even through the hard times? Yet makes a conscious choice to risk it all by having sex with another woman or even worse developing feelings for this woman! I don't honestly believe no matter how much talking, trying or having councelling can ever let you trust 100% again. All that belonging giving yourself to one another. Promising to love shattered. I take my hat of to you because your willing to try and move forward. I know I could never forgive and it would always worry me. Best of luck to you though

LetsGot
you just expressed what I was thinking today (whilst painting spring redecorating a room) about the MNLTB-lookalike.
We need you ladies as believers need the devil advocates. Seriously. No cynicism and Irony. You are reminding us that we need to stand for ourselves and you are obliging us to look at other alternatives and to seriously question whether rebuilding our relationships is what we really want. Moreover when we are just crushed after DD you give us your shoulders to cry on. And for this I/we am/are grateful to you forever. All we ask you is:
once we have looked at all aspects and at all alternatives (including LTB)
and,
once we have given the betrayer a chance to understand his/her destructive behavior and
once he/she proves us- by his/her behavior- his/her sincere remorse and commitment to make the relationship better
then either ignore us or if you listen to what you have to say then do not castigate us or patronize us- you might try to point to us what you think is wrong/lacking in what we do. No problem. Stay open-minded. And allow some of us to be grown up: kids are important; shall we separate them from one of their parent because- it happened that he/she jumped to another bed for a little while? Did it cross your mind that we might have a strong ego , do not define ourselves by the kind of H/P we have, do not need a passionate relationship to feel alive? Did it cross your mind that we like the challenges of relationships and of helping our P become the best he/she can- provided, of course, that we see that we are up to these challenges and that our P is also striving to become the best he can and is helping us and our kids as well to be the best we can? Because there is something you must know: I noticed that when a parent has cheated and is trying to redeem his/her mistake, then the most common positive change in his behavior is that he becomes a better parent. The joy that this is brings to us, the betrayed partners who initially stay for the sake of kids , is immensurable. Believe we do not stay if he/she does not work on being a better partner.

great update and well done you.
I wish you and your family renewed love and happiness

Yay Mama, go us! The parent thing is true here, he suddenly realised he almost lost them, and he was frightened by that. He is a much better father now which makes me really happy. And he's a better husband too.

Thanks to everyone who posted nice comments, and good luck to anyone trying to recover their marriage (just found marriage in recovery thread!).

I don't need passion to feel alive but don't think life outside a relationship is so bad that I would contemplate living with someone who did need passion and sought it elsewhere.