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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Borderline personality disorder-please can someone give perspective on this? Awful situation.

80 replies

TotallyDrained · 15/02/2015 14:09

Long story short, a friend of mine has diagnosed BPD and Asperger's. I didn't know about this until probably a few months ago, when she told me the full extent and that she was on meds etc. prior to knowing all this our friendship had been strained due to her consistently misunderstanding things i had said or done which lead to arguements. I've never argued with friends before this so found it really strange and that I just maybe rubbed her up the wrong way.

I don't know what I want, I guess I just feel like I walk on eggshells all the time and I feel so on edge like anything I say to her will tip her over. For example congratulating her on the birth of her son she told me to stop it and that I was making her feel anxious. There have been countless situations like this. I just feel utterly drained and depressed by it. I've done a lot of research into the disorder to understand it and to be careful in the way I approach her but I'm a bit feisty by nature so I've been told so could have been too blunt with her maybe?? She lives quite a chaotic life regarding different relationships and has fallen out with numerous other friends I know of. I don't know what I'm asking really, maybe for some words of advice or wisdom? Please be gentle

OP posts:
Meerka · 16/02/2015 18:11

It's very difficult.

First off, a friendship does have to be two way. If it's not, you're a carer ... and that is not a position you are in. So you need to get something out of this relationship as well as give something.

The sister is probably partially a carer in practice and when you are very deeply concerned for someone who is desperately needly, sometimes you can start to think that everyone else should help too. But your relationship with her is different and you do not have responsibility for her. It is a friendship.

One of the whole things about borderline personality disorder is that people around need to keep very firm borders. Her sister is highly unlikely to be trained in it and may have been sucked in a bit. She might also feel desperate and be lashing out But again, the lady with BPD is not your responsibility. Someone with BPD may have a lot to give but can be tricky and yes, sometimes people reach the end of their tether.

The snapping probably is part of the illness. Also at a guess, so is the boastfulness. If you have that low self-esteem you can cling desperately to the things you are proud of because it gives you some validity. Something to be proud of that others might respect .. because it's hard for someone with BPD to feel real self respect.

Whether she is being an arse or whether it's the condition, I think myself that if you wish to keep in touch the best thign to do is, when she starts snapping, to quietly make your excuses and leave. BPD is an illness characterised by lack of emotional maturity and in some ways, (kindly) treating them like a slightly immature person, a 10 year old or 15 year old, can help. Boundaries! If you leave whenever she snaps, then eventually she will hopefully manage not to snap. About the , questioning you over something you said, if you can the best way I know to deal with it is to answer once or twice or three times, then to smile and say that you have explained it, that you find it difficult to be asked over and over and could you both please talk about something else.

Also, from what I'm aware of there is a genetic componant to BPD but without doubt what actually triggers it is extreme, appalling and often repeated stress in childhood. Unfortunately, and I know this for a fact, those triggers may actually not be something that they consciously are aware of.

It sounds like this lady is really trying hard to engage in treatment. It does sound like you do like her. It might be nice if you can retain some sort of friendship, even if you have to take a step back - if you able to enjoy her company sometimes.

candyce83 · 16/02/2015 18:52

Haha @ saucy jack. Please. Everyones advice is marred by their own experiences on here. Welcome to the internet. You don't know me or my situation so fuck off please. I have no problem with people with bpd. Never said I did. What I do have a problem with is people being mistreated by others, bpd or not.

candyce83 · 16/02/2015 19:10

Totallydrained...sorry for sidewinding the issues with saucy jack. You sound like a nice person and a good friend for hanging in there when so many would have left. Do whats best for you. I doubt this is less to do with her having a mental illness and more how she is treating you which isn't kindly. Take care of yourself first and foremost everyone else is secondary.

ChaiseLounger · 16/02/2015 19:36

This thread has made me very sad. Send the woman over to me and I'll be her friend. No matter how difficult she is.
All the posters seem to be bereft of empathy. No one said it was going to be easy , but surely someone needs to try?

DontDrinkandFacebook · 16/02/2015 19:43

She sounds like really, really had work. The reasons for that are totally irrelevant. Her diagnosis is totally irrelevant. If someone is too much of a pain in the arse for you to be able to enjoy being around them then you are perfectly entitled to disengage.

candyce83 · 16/02/2015 19:44
Hmm

Why would you want to be friends with someone who mistreats you and makes you feel like you're walking on eggshells?

Meerka · 16/02/2015 19:55

oh dear chaise ... Im sorry if I came over as lacking in empathy. People with BPD have a very difficult time of it sometimes, depending on how badly it affects them. They also suffer a lot.

Someone with BPD can be very good company and a good friend. Hard work sometimes, comes with the condition, but often very rewarding and often they have a different outlook on life which is challenging and stimulating.

At the same time most people with BPD do have times when they are difficult, depending how severe it is and their own make-up and how well they are able to control the condition.

The OP is struggling at the moment, that's clear, I think most people here were trying to help her.

limegoldfinewine · 16/02/2015 20:11

The OP doesn't want to stay friends with someone because she doesn't enjoy spending time with her, she was to walk on eggshells around her and she's being guilted into spending time with her by family. If this were her partner, she would be told to LTB, no question. Even if he identified as BPD. Instead she's being attacked as disablist, called a bad friend and told that she's lacking in empathy. Ridiculous.

Saucy Jack - what has the OP done such that she isn't the "Friend of the Year"? That is an unnecessary jab at an OP who hasn't done anything wrong.

Honestly, the responses on this thread from people who identify as BFD would make me more wary of befriending someone with BPD, not less.

SaucyJack · 16/02/2015 20:16

"Saucy Jack - what has the OP done such that she isn't the "Friend of the Year"? That is an unnecessary jab at an OP who hasn't done anything wrong."

Because she doesn't actually to like

DixieNormas · 16/02/2015 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SaucyJack · 16/02/2015 20:23

"Saucy Jack - what has the OP done such that she isn't the "Friend of the Year"? That is an unnecessary jab at an OP who hasn't done anything wrong."

Because she doesn't actually appear to like this woman very much or (quite understandably) enjoy her company. Where I come from- BPD or not- you do actually need to like people to call them a friend Smile

It doesn't do anybody any good to try and force a friendship because you feel sorry for them.

And it wasn't the OP who I called disablist. I would personally call her PC gorn mad.

Latara · 16/02/2015 20:44

I have traits of BPD but my Psychiatrist calls it 'Emotionally Unstable' PD which is the British name for it and is much more accurate as a name as far as I'm concerned.

I take meds for depression & psychosis which have also taken the edge off some of the BPD symptoms - for example I used to get very angry very quickly so that has stopped.
But I think that some of the traits still bother me. I have trouble getting very stressed at work over small things that don't bother normal people.

I still have issues with relationships but I am very aware of making sure I'm nice to everyone.. to the point I can get walked on. I get very worried that people don't like me over small things like not getting a text.
I find it's easier not to get into relationships with men but I want a baby so I'm going to have to try it.

I think your friend is struggling & needs more self awareness but she needs professional help to get that really. DBT is supposed to be good.

If you really don't like her though, then back off from her - a friendship where you secretly dislike someone will do neither of you any good.

Latara · 16/02/2015 20:48

Can I also say I admit to (some) people that I've had depression & psychosis (people at work know anyway because my last psychotic episode was at work).

But I never ever admit to the BPD traits. I think certain people guess that 'something' isn't quite right but it doesn't seem to bother them as I've got some good close friends (only one of them is aware of it) and lots of casual friends, and I'm really close to all my family. So I must be likeable.

springydaffs · 16/02/2015 21:57

Well, if you are a 'feisty/blunt' type then go for it. Tbh, what have you got to lose?

I think slowly freezing her out will be torture for her tbh. You may as well be yourself and say it like it is.

I don't say this lightly btw. She may kick off initially but you can spell it out that in order for you to be friends there has to be space for you AND your personality, too, not just her and her personality/disorders/whatever. You have a much better chance of being consistent if you can be yourself more or less. Her sister is probably feeling protective, though she certainly isn't helping her sister by laying it on thick like that with her sister's friends.

TotallyDrained · 16/02/2015 22:23

Thanks for all replies. Meerka your post was really insightful to me, I appreciate that a lot.

OP posts:
TotallyDrained · 16/02/2015 22:29

It's funny I do enjoy her company sometimes but generally it feels like a minefield. I'm not sure where I'm 'PC gone mad' as saucyjack said I am, rather I'm trying to do the decent thing and try to sort this out as well as understand the condition better. Coping with it in a friendship is nothing compared to living with it at the end of the day. I've stuck around because other friends outwardly dislike her and aren't afraid to say it/stay away from her, which has been tough on her I think. I didn't want to just piss off and leave her to it because i wouldn't want to be in that situation myself. Anyway, I consistently offend her and she has random outbursts at me so from the look of things there's no benefit to this relationship really is there? I could even be making her worse.

OP posts:
RandomNPC · 16/02/2015 22:34

Honestly, the responses on this thread from people who identify as BFD would make me more wary of befriending someone with BPD, not less.

Fine, wouldn't want you as a friend anyway.
If you substituted Autism for BPD and said some of the stuff that's been on this thread, MN would rip you to bits.

RandomNPC · 16/02/2015 22:35

I'm not having a go at the OP either, she's got a difficult decision to make

candyce83 · 16/02/2015 22:48

OP why walk on eggshells with your friend when you can do that here!

Mixtape · 16/02/2015 22:48

I agree that if this was a different disorder no-one would be so harsh about the friend in question and I am shocked that it seems to be ok to dismiss someone with diagnosed mental health condition as being difficult etc and not worth the hassle, hard work, nightmare etc.

My sister has BPD and was told that there was no medication for it, although she could be given medication for associated depression, etc, and that the only approach was talking therapy of some sort - but she won't commit to that. She is nearly 30 and in some ways has improved, which is quite typical apparently. My mum was told that people with BPD learn / condition themselves to behave differently and are less chaotic (or they get worse, thanks Hmm)

OP I could make some suggestions, but if you do not like your friend, and don't want to be friends with her, it is a bit pointless. It feels a little bit like you want permission to withdraw from the friendship, and I understand you feel bad about how you feel, but some of the responses really are....I don't know. Mental illness is not an excuse to treat people badly, but people with BPD don't actually enjoy living chaotic lives, having their emotions go up and down constantly, struggling with basic things that make their lives harder and feeling like they are failing.

Mixtape · 16/02/2015 22:49

None of that is your responsibility, it just feels like some people are implying it is an excuse for bad behaviour and people "play on it"

SaucyJack · 16/02/2015 23:50

I wasn't trying to insult you with the PC gone mad thing- you're being too tolerant if anything. I just feel you're focussing too much on her diagnoses, and too little on whether you actually have a mutually beneficial and genuine friendship. It's fine to treat her as you would any other NT acquaintance- you're not a paid carer.

You don't really need to understand what makes her tick- you can't make her better and you may actually help her more by raising your expectations of the friendship and her behaviour. Certainly this situation you're in where she behaves badly towards you, and you just suck it up because she has a MH diagnosis isn't benefitting either of you. Meerka (I think it was) said some good things about setting boundaries if you do want to pursue a friendship.

Good luck with whatever you decide anyway x

limegoldfinewine · 16/02/2015 23:56

If you substituted Autism for BPD and said some of the stuff that's been on this thread, MN would rip you to bits.

And if you changed the gender of the friend, you'd be ripped to bits for trying to guilt someone into a relationship they feel bad about.

Many people seem to post because they want permission to extricate themselves from relationships that hurt them. The correct response is not to start guilting them and implying they are not trying hard enough. Ugh.

SaucyJack · 17/02/2015 00:00

Are you reading the same thread as everybody else limegold

Only one single solitary poster has said that the OP should try and maintain the friendship as it is.

Meerka · 17/02/2015 06:45

I think this thread is a good example of the controversy around BPD and the difficult feelings people with BPD can sometimes evoke in other people because of hte illness :/ It's a horrible illness, not helped by the myths around it.

I've seen people improve massively and I've seen a couple go badly downhill. It's one of the more hopeful PDs in that the general prognosis is good, as mixtape said.

It really is up to you, if you've had enough you've had enough. Just as a thought if you wnat to give it one last go, is it worth saying to her (on a good day!) that you like her but that you find it hard when she snaps at you? That sort of feedback might be quite helpful to her. Then when she does have a bad day and snaps, you could say that you've discussed this and it's perhaps better that you go for now.

If it's any help (maybe it's not!) but you won't be making her any worse.

But if the friendship has reached the end of the road, then there's no point prolonging it. Pity-friendship is no friendship at all, really.