DP does nothing? - how did this come about

[BreakingDad77]

These threads or variations seem fairly common

I'm just curious was it like this at the start of the relationship and you moved in together or was it when you had kids? or just seemed to happen?

for me, the situation wasn't so bad as to be worth making an issue of before kids.

i mean when I had my own salary, pre-kids, I probably did about 65% of the housework. and foolishly perhaps I didn't want to be seen to 'nag'. Ridiculous I know.

then after kids and after I was financially dependant on him he abused his power and did less and less to help and got cross with me if I asked him to do more.

I left him.

I think in many cases a lack of housework isn't such a big deal pre -kids - annoying, yes, but too 'petty' and 'nagging' to bring it up. Once kids come along and the woman is on ML a lot of men then drop the little they were doing and fail to take it back on especially if she becomes a SAHP.

With my first H, I was just too smitten to notice. I was young and in love - I didn't register that he was lazy. In his defence, he'd grown up in a household where his father did nothing and his FT-working mother did everything, so it was learned behaviour rather than deliberately being a git. And by the time I started caring about it, it was very entrenched.

My now DH means well - he just needs the bleeding obvious spelt out to him. After my last hissy fit he does seem to have got the message that he needs to show a bit of initiative and spontaneously cleans the bathroom etc now.

ps, much happier doing everything now, but not carrying any grumpy passengers.

i think the problem is women are too slow to leave a man when they realise he's an entitled lazy man who will use his temper quite strategically to stop you asking for anything.

Reading the threads here it shocks me how many many are so entitled, so lazy, so abusive

With one exDP it was because his exDP had basically done everything for him for years and he'd come to expect it. Fortunately, we never lived together, but he made quite a big deal of wanting things like dinner cooked, ironing done etc if we did move in together and got all dejected and whiny when I said he could iron his own bloody clothes if he wanted them done that much.

same as RessyMedHair pre kids we shared cooking and cleaned the flat together every Saturday.

Once dc1 came along, everything in the house including the baby was my domain, he found family life too much of a challenge. He seemed to think this was a fine arrangement even when I was back at work.

He became King of the Castle and a lazy, miserable, angry one at that. Nothing was ever good enough.

By the time I kicked him out there was literally a dent in the sofa the shape of his arse, where he had pretty much been constantly over the preceding 10 years I got rid of the sofa pretty soon after, too.

Handywoman

you deserved a new sofa!

so breakingdad has the thread enlightened you at all?!

Yes it has indeed - I will continue to proactively clean and vacuum stuff!

I despair at the number of threads where women feel the need to vent about their lazy male partners. It makes me angry with the parents of these men - why did they bring up their sons to be so helpless? My pil are definitely guilty of this and I have had to work hard on dh to see and understand what needs doing in a busy family home.

I had a thread on here recently where I had a moan about mil only asking my dd and not my ds to help her with little domestic jobs when they were staying. It was really surprising the number of Mumsnetters who couldn't see the problem with that!

What gets me is the threads from women who are on ML or who are SAHMs who are very ill, with flu, D&V etc, who are asking for ways to deal with their children while their partners go to work. Now I know in some circumstances if you don't turn up for work you'll be fired, and so it's fair enough if you're in that horrible position you have to go. But it absolutely boggles me that there are men out there who can see their partner really struggling, throwing up or half-dead in the bed, and just blithely go out the door to work when they could take time off work, albeit with some inconvenience involved.
It's as if, once a woman becomes a mother, she ceases to be human, she needs no sleep, no support, no time to be ill, she just has to keep on going no matter what. You can be guaranteed that if a lot of those men came down with just a cold they'd be straight off to bed, expecting to be waited on hand and foot. It's such a well known phenomenon that it was used in a "humorous" way in a Boots ad (with obviously unwell women buying meds for their presumably equally ill partners, who were at home malingering). Why is it humorous that women are ignored when ill?

This relates to what I was discussing on a feminism thread recently - the way in which men seem to see their participation in life as optional - they can dip in and out and choose the things that suit them, while women just have to do things, no matter what.

dh does a fair bit but the balance changed on mat leave. i did a lot more housework and jobs just transferred across to be 'my' jobs. when i started back, not all the jobs became 'ours'

I wrote about this quite extensively before in response to the same question of "oh why did you marry this guy, did you not see that he was useless from the start?"

The answer is no, it was not very visible. Before we were married, DH and I lived in a small rented house and had no children. DH was then doing a much larger share of housework than he does now. It also potentially appeared larger to me as my own workload was smaller (small house, repairs are done by landlord, no children). They we bought a much larger house and had a child. Workload increased substantially. I, as a woman, jut got on with it, but DH decided to check out of housework (thankfully not out of childcare).

I agree with cailindana that men see housework as optional. Most of them did not grow up with their fathers doing it. So when life is easy, they often can be gracious and put on the "feminist man" persona. When things get tough (sleepless nights, lawn needs mowing, etc.) it is much more tempting and possible for them to check out as housework is just a role for most of them, it's not integral to their being as it is for women. Women, however, often do not know this and really believe that the "feminist man" that they see before marriage is children is the real deal. I believed that.

Women also tend to notice men's lack of involvement in housework a lot more after marriage and children because it is precisely then when housework increases and becomes a real burden.

I would agree that the balance changed when I went on maternity leave.

I was at home all day with a baby (despite not getting any sleep and having had a difficult labour which left me unwell).

I also went part-time to look after DC2, which I think has had a threefold effect:

1. My financial contribution to the household reduced, thereby cementing the idea that DH goes out and earns the money, and I look after the totality of the domestic arena. So it ended up I was responsible 24/7, whereas he worked 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and got down time once he got home - because he had been 'working'. Similarly, if he was sick, he gets to take time off work, yet if I was ill, I still had responsibility for the domestic side of things.

1. Because I am part-time and want to be there for the DC, my career has stagnated. I have deliberately not gone for further promotion because I prefer the flexibility my current role has. When we first met, DH & I were both in professional middle ranking jobs. However in the intervening period DH has climbed the career ladder, thereby further cementing the 'I earn, you do everything else' point of view.

1. Despite having a fairly full-on job, I leave at 3pm to collect the DC from school and to then do their homework. DH translates me working PT (still 32 hrs a week, only 3 hrs less than him in fact) as having spare capacity to not only collect DC and do homework, but also everything else, such as shopping, cooking, laundry and all housework.

We had a cleaner for over 8 years, who was great. It got too much for her though, and left due to health problems. We haven't managed to replace her yet.

When it was just me and DP I knew he was lazy and messy, but it wasn't such a big deal. I had so much more free time, so although I did more housework it didn't impact on me. I did nag him to do his share but I also partly put it down to him being naturally messy and me having higher standards. If he lived alone, he wouldn't empty the bin until it was literally overflowing for example. It's me who insists on it being done before that point so I could kind of accept I ended up doing more.

I suppose I just thought when we had DC he would step up and do more. He has, but only because of my incessant campaign of reminding him, writing down huge lists of jobs and sharing them out, and making very clear to him what it means for my life if I have to pick up his undone jobs - exhaustion, resentment, missing out on my own free time etc.

He literally was not aware of a lot of the work that has to be done, like dealing with letters and forms from school, sorting kids old stuff and taking to charity shop, cleaning out sink overflows - he just doesn't notice or think about all those endless little jobs, unless I spell it out. So I do. I could have taken the option of just doing almost everything and moaning about it, but I'm not going to stand for that – I'm a feminist, I work, we have a boy and a girl and I want them both to see the example of their parents sharing the domestic stuff – and I'm glad to say he does loads and loads now and it's pretty fair. But it's been a long road to get here.

Re maternity leave, I point blank refused to take on housework as part of my "duties" while off work with a baby. I did shopping and cooking, as I could build them into my day and it made sense. But I told DP that childcare was my job, I was doing that (breastfeeding, changing nappies, entertaining baby, going to groups/clinics, etc etc) all day while he was at work, and housework was separate stuff that we still both had to share.

I wish I'd done that too, MadderPink

I remember a more enlightened friend of mine declaring 'I didn't go on mat leave to do the hoovering!'

At the time I was shocked at that statement. But of course, she was right.

I think my ex stopped seeing me as a person though, he continues to show me zero empathy from his Disney Dad ivory tower, as I do 99.9% of the task of bringing up the children we made.

I, on the other hand, was expected to be sympathetic the other morning, when he failed to raise himself and the kids on time to drop them to their grandparent (my dad) so they could be taken to school the other morning, leaving me to scoop up dd1's school friend who was waiting for dd1 by the corner shop at 0850h.

He has to do this x2 or x3 per month while I'm on call for work.

What an Arse he is!

We get divorced this year (excited!!)

I knew from the early days that mine was a dirty messy slob - I really thought he would grow up....as others have said - when young in small rented flat it was just a moan and not a red card.....but as life became more complicated and demanding it was a real issue. Worst were the "studied incompetence" - if he did something he would do it like a stroppy child banging about and v badly - wiping the work top was a favourite ... find a greasy dirty cloth and slop cold water leaving pools of muck everywhere ... dirty pants on the bathroom floor every morning - don't think he has cleaned the bathroom once in 30 years....then I look outside at the dripping gutters, messy garden falling about house and see it as a reflection of our marriage - I have raised my x4dc alone - he was the 5th disruptive useless child -- I kicked him out 5 weeks ago. .. all is now calm - order is restored and my 4dc all help out

I can't nag, that has a negative effect, however the other day he had a day off in the week, I asked could he do one job, the ironing... I usually do it, I choose to do a lot of the jobs as I am picky but those he does he does well

He had an entire day, he ironed 5 tshirts, 2 cardies and some vests... I ask you, how does a man go so slowly? ...Xbox, that's how

I had a hissyfit, he's been better since and realised it was hardly fair

Some men are lazy arses, most men just don't think like we do, I think you have to come to some compromise on realisations and expectations

No not at the beginning after about twelve months I realised it was a prikk!

Somethingtodo I hope you are keeping ok. That must be a big change after 30 years, but you sound relieved.

Most men do think like we do, they do it at work. Yes, at work most men can somehow keep on top of their responsibilities and remember what needs doing. Because they have to and there isn't some wifey trailing along behind them picking up their pants. Men aren't helpless or stupid, in general they are no more helpless or stupid than we are.

I think a lot of men getr away with this "just didn't think about it" "can't do it properly" "I'll do it tomorrow" because women go along with this bollocks that they are helpless and clueless.

You know what, there was a time I didn't know how to put a wash on, cook tea, call a plumber or deal with school. Guess what, I learned. Anyone can learn to do this stuff if they have to, it's just that many men don't have to because they know someone else will pick up the slack.

I think if you ask a man if he is your intellectual inferior, lass able than you and can't learn things, he'll be quick to disagree. If he can do it at work, he can do it at home.

What gets me is the threads from women who are on ML or who are SAHMs who are very ill, with flu, D&V etc, who are asking for ways to deal with their children while their partners go to work. Now I know in some circumstances if you don't turn up for work you'll be fired, and so it's fair enough if you're in that horrible position you have to go. But it absolutely boggles me that there are men out there who can see their partner really struggling, throwing up or half-dead in the bed, and just blithely go out the door to work when they could take time off work, albeit with some inconvenience involved.

This relates to what I was discussing on a feminism thread recently - the way in which men seem to see their participation in life as optional - they can dip in and out and choose the things that suit them, while women just have to do things, no matter what.

That's bollocks. You're just choosing the realm of life that you want to see as optional (turning up to work every day and earning the family's keep) and which one you want to see as obligatory (getting up in the night and feeding children etc.)

What you see as accepting responsibility without the option of refusal is exactly how plenty of men experience having to go to work and earn their salary, and how that becomes even LESS optional once there is a family involved.

Honestly the way some people go on here. you'd think that constantly bending to the demands of a demanding full time job is just some kind of indulgence that entitled men do for the laffs. The job market is cruel and unforgiving, and most people submitting to its will every day could think of a million things they'd rather be doing.

I think it's cause the women do it anyway. So why would they do it when they know it'll get done. My husband thinks he is far better than he is thinks like cleaning the bathroom just don't come into his head but I m not .washing my face in a dirty sink so it gets cleaned every day by me!

I agree with Madder.

Also considering such work 'help' or 'babysitting'.