Maintenance

[FuckitAndStartAgain]

I think I know the answer to this but worth a try!

Is there anyway that my stbx can be coerced into paying some support for over 18 not in education children? Mine can not afford to house themselves, even the one in a good job and the other is unemployed. STBX also wants to stop my maintenance asap although I am going to fight that so I can support the children.

I asked him how they were supposed to live without parental support, having reminded him he lived with his parents until 25. He said he could not be forced to contribute and neither could I. Therefore, it is my choice to live with them and he should not have to contribute towards that.

We are about to start mediation having obtained decree nisi a year ago (he moved out nearly two years ago) and he has not come up with anything constructive at all in response to my Lawyers' letters. He now has a baby on the way and says he wants this sorted but seems reluctant to put any effort in...

There are no liquid assets, smallish pension, about 20K of equity in house, he earns well, until this quarter when his earnings have dropped significantly hmm, about five times my salary. So everything will hinge on spousal for the moment, my scary does not cover rent around here by quite some margin. I have a third child still doing GSCEs and work locally so moving is not an option at present.

Any suggestions? I have a feeling I am well and truly fucked. As form this month instead of paying what was agreed per month he has dropped it by £1400. I can't manage on this. This is calculated on his new 'fair' way of working it out he has decreed. He is pushing me into panicking I think, and doing a good job.

It is so unfair that I can not live with my boys as long as they want to live with me simply because he had sex without contraception with a woman who told me SIX years ago that she wanted his babies...

I posted in legal but no response - hoping the increased traffic here will help.I am feeling a bit desperate.

Can the unemployed one get into some form of education so that two kids have to be covered.
Your working son needs to contribute and the unemployed one should be handing over every penny

I don't suppose that your stbxh has the purest of motives in not wanting to support his sons but he sort of has a point - they are adults (you don't say how old they are, just more than 18) and it is reasonable for them to try to make their own way in the world. If he isn't earning as much as he did and now has a young family to support, then I think it would be wise for you to start working out ways to increase your own salary - I'm not convinced that he will keep contributing if he doesn't have to.

Unless someone knows any different I would say that he cannot be forced into paying anything for the over 18s if they are no longer in education. A mediator might suggest that morally he should still provide a roof over their heads. Presumably he is paying maintenance for the 16 yr old and a case could be made for continuing to do so if he goes on to university.

I don't know how old you are but if you have been married 30 years and he earns well I would have thought that he would have built up quite a decent pension. I guess he has a job where his pay goes up and down every month - self-employed? When you start mediation he will have to produce bank statements for the past year so the sooner you get things moving the better.

CAB might be able to help re bill paying etc? In the short term I would urge the unemployed over 18 to get a job - bar work, anything. The DC doing GCSEs could always get a part time job after exams too - paper round etc. Both my DC got part time jobs at 16/17 in a pub - serving food, and then bar work when they turned 18 and most of their friends have part time jobs.

So sorry but I don't think there is a quick fix. As I said, hopefully someone else will have some better advice???

He is right. They are adults and not in education so they need to pay their way and be responsible for themselves. He can't be expected to pay for them indefinitely.

So what about the OP's own needs in the mean-time and ability to pay the bills anyone?

I'm not a lawyer but just from experience of my own divorce I don't think he can be forced to pay.

In my case the fact that the DC's lived with me and that as a result I had to support them was discussed and was stated as a factor affecting the offer we made but no specific provision was made for the dcs. My barrister's view at the time was that judges had a lot of power to do as they see fit and that really much depended upon the judge's own opinions.

Honestly, I don't think anyone here can offer advice on what spousal maintenance you will be entitled to, because it varies so much case by case. You can be guided by a solicitor who has all the facts but even then my belief is that a judge has a wide margin of discretion.

If it's a long marriage and there are few assets, and he earns a lot and you don't, I doubt he'll be able to evade paying you maintenance. And obviously you need to house, feed and clothe the youngest. But I can't see that he has a responsibility to pay for your adult sons tbh, no. I imagine he's been horrible in saying so, but it's also the case that they should start to make their own way in the world, even if contributing at home towards their keep is how.

By "anyone here" I meant even on Legal I don't think MN is qualified to advise you, just because nobody here has the facts. Obviously we can't on Relationships.

I'm so sorry he has put you in this position, though, and is being so snide about it. He sounds an arse.

It may seem unfair but I agree the unemployed one should be pulling out all the stops to find a job.
When mine leave full time education I am going to be buggered. I get no maintenance. I will probably have to get a second job to keep a roof over my head. I've been a lone parent for a long time so I am preparing my 'exit strategy' for when all the CTC stops.
I appreciate that this situation is not of your choosing (heck mine wasnt either) and the ages of your children make it a lot harder for you. Morally yes I believe your ex should be supporting the family. Sadly he doesn't have to. I hope things get better for you. And that your ex husbands new set up falls on its arse (which is probably not a nice thing for me to say)

Ouch, no not nice but spot on!

The eldest is twenty, has a good job but no where near being able to house himself around here. The middle lad is job hunting but I can't see him being anywhere near independent for a long while.

The reality is that most young adults need a home to live in while they save for deposits learn about the world of work etc etc. I really do not know when they will go and of course I would not want them homeless. If stbx had stayed none of this would have been an issue at all.

I think the amount of maintenance I can claim is key. Ifyourehappy, nice to hear it was a factor even if not a specific need. I work full time, in a professional but poorly paid career, college lecturer, I have chronic health issues and am not sure I will be able to keep this up very long. I can't think of anything else I could do that would earn more and I have spent hours looking at job sites.

The problem is the total lack of liquid assets, and living in an expensive part of the world. My salary would not even cover rent on anything more than a two bed flat (not much good when you have family pets too!) and that would leave nothing for bills food etc at all.

As the indomitable WWK would say, I just have to keep going.

Are you in the uk?

Yes am in the UK. So all English law applies. He is not self employed but a large part of his income is a bonus. It is usually at the very least doubles his income but I think his head (so to speak) has been elsewhere recently.

Save for deposits? All he needs is one mont's rent and a bond (usually another mont's rent). Not a lot if he gets a room in a shared house. Take him 2-3 months to save that. No better way to learn about 'the world of work' than having to pay bills like an adult without Mum and Dad.

The 18-year-old needs to claim JSA and pay for some of his keep.

These two need to grow up. You cannot keep babying them as there is no more money to do this.

I think it is the fact that the boys are expected to be independent when they are clearly not that I am most upset by. I expect even the one with a good job who contributes very generously to the household since his father left will be saving to move out until he is at least 23.

The unemployed lad is very young for his age and he is in a bit of a mess frankly. He will be ok I am sure but it could take a while. He has ADHD as a diagnosis but is currently a teenage boy going off track... Not helped by his father giving him pocket money in addition to buying him a car! I did ask that he shouldn't but hey I can be ignored. I am just the one whose name is given to the Police when required and who half stays awake to see if he is safely home in the not so early hours.

Would you guys seriously expect an 18 year old to be independent?

Um, yes. Lots of people are living out of the home, away from home, going to Uni or as apprentices, living in shared flat and having to make sure they get to lectures, work, cook all without Mummy in sight.

Again, at 20, lots of folks are living in a flat share away from home, working and doing for themselves.

We live rurally, ours will have to leave at 18 or sooner to go to college or Uni, and the younger one has ASD and ADHD.

I think it is hard sometimes to see how thing are now and know that it wasn't how you expected life to be for your family. You know though that in the long term both your sons will be better adults for the change in their life and you need to say goodbye to how you though things would be and grieve in some way.

It sounds as if your eldest D's is a good lad helping out and you can take pride in that, it will not harm him to pay his own way.

Fuckit...yes my dd1 was and had moved out of home at 18 and had a job.

Surely it won't take long for your 20 year old to save for a room in a house share? Your 18 year old needs to claim job seekers and give you most of it.

This is a tough situation for you and probably very stressful. However if you can't get any more money from your ex (try anyway) then your kids will have no choice but to become independent. Prepare them for this now, involve them in your financial situation so they can see what is happening.

One day they will look back on this and see it as the moment they grew up and became responsible adults and gained a new found respect for their mother.

How they will feel about their father for pulling the rug under them so suddenly is another matter.

Sorry you are going through this. It is very similar to my position to be honest. Yes the dcs are adults or becoming adults but we live in an expensive part of the country and financial independence is in no way possible for them currently. It is in my nature to try to provide for them as I always have. One is about to go (late) to uni and the other finished uni last summer.

Realistically I have concluded that I just need to do what I can to support them and that in parallel I need to push them to be as self sufficient as they can as quickly as possible. Which is a good thing for them anyway. Not straightforward when actually I will be supporting the one going to uni.

In my case I have never received any money from xh and therefore have got used to it. Far from ideal though.

As pps above have already pointed out, and as I think you know, the eldest are too old for "child maintenance" as they are considered adults but the youngest will definitely still qualify. So it comes down to spousal maintenance for which you may have a claim if there is a large difference in incomes. However given that you have a full-time job and the children are "adults" then it may be more difficult. A solicitor should be able to help you with this.

In my case, I am legally obliged to pay both child and spousal until the children leave secondary education. At this point, all maintenance payments stop. I will of course continue to support my kids for as along as I can however it is through my choice and not as part of any divorce settlement.

Is your middle DS looking at apprenticeships?
It's a great in to good companies sometimes. You learn and you earn.
He can pick a career then as well.

Yes apprenticeships are always the first site we look at. Trouble at the moment is persuading him to apply for anything.

Yep, I think spousal is the only way forward. How horrible.

Nerr, eldest would be able to save much faster if he was not contributing so much to household here. House shares few and far between, and he would rather at present put his money into our home. He wants to do that and save towards a deposit to buy if at all possible. Hence it will take a while.