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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Anyone else unable to forgive OH historic alcoholism?

82 replies

Somethingtodo · 05/02/2015 14:05

We have been together 30 years. He had a big drink problem for over 20 years - gave up totally for 5 years - and is now drinking again (last 5 years) - but not so heavily. But I keep having flashbacks to the alcohol incidents - and wondering why I endured them at the time....does that mean I forgave that behaviour then ? but why am I looking back with anger. now...?

These are the flashbacks:

Me cowering and trying to cover for you whilst feeling deep shame, watching our friends wince with embarrassment when you were the only one really steaming drunk when we were out or when we entertained - slurring, dribbling, red-faced, eyes-rolling, head lolling, falling asleep at the dining table by 9.30, boring the arse of people, not being able to keep up with the conversation, falling over, dancing like a dick head.

Every, fucking, time. Me getting distressed and moody on every social occasion when you behaved like this - so never enjoying anything and creating an atmosphere with F&F.

Then next day your long lie ins and hours in the bath, reading the news papers detached emotionally and physically unavailable to us all (x4dcs) as you dealt with the hang-over so could not participate in normal family life - the fun stuff and the not so fun stuff (childcare/chores/decisions etc) - so I did this all alone with seething bitterness and contempt.

Your refusal to acknowledge that you had a drink problem (even though both of your parents are/were alcoholics) - because as you were able to (i.e. forced to) totally cut out drinking Sun-Th as you couldn't function at work with hangovers and you had already lost one job -- but from your pov it was fine to get hammered on Fri & Sat and to not function as a father or husband all weekend and on holidays. So you minimised and defined yourself as a "binge drinker" not an alcoholic. N.B. AA definition is that you have a problem when your drinking impacts/upsets those around you......it did, you knew that, and did not care.

The constant lying about how much you had drunk. Every single time. 'just had one bottle of red" - so who does the empty 2 litre bottle of cider below to?

The visual image of you behaving like this on our wedding night - you stayed up in friends bedroom until 6am and then zig-zagged along the hotel corridor then slumped to the floor at our door.

The time (or the only time I was aware of it at least) that you shat yourself due to being so pissed - we were alone in a foreign capital city and the rest of NYE was spent trying to find somewhere to clean you up and dump your pants.

The time when I had just given birth, asked you not to drink whilst looking after our PFB and went up to bed...came down at 4am to find baby stuck at end of sofa and you slumped drunk.

When I had gone away for 2 nights to a family wedding leaving you in sole charge of just turned 2yo, 3yo and 5 yo - and you triumphantly declared on my return that you were now teetotal - because, your words, "I thought - Great!! she is going away, no nag, nag, nag about drinking - I can get brilliantly plastered - so I did - but the next day i couldn't cope with the kids and though I would die" - I took this as a positive - and congratulated your efforts - i did not consider the risk you exposed our v young children to and I did not appreciate that I should never have left you with them. I am deeply ashamed of this.

For the 5 years you were dry - I strangely found it deeply irritating, i suppose it was admitting that you could not do moderation i.e. normal and that the problem and the label was 100% real. All or nothing Then you started drinking again, slowly at first and now heavyish - and lies are creeping back in again.

Loads of other hideous (non drink related) dreadful behaviour after the drinking subsided then crept in (or became more apparent) and I decided to divorce - but took you back as I knew that you would keep sliding and end up the lonely dirty alchi in a filthy little flat - and you would blame me (or I would take some responsibility) for this demise - and this was not the father I wanted for my x4 dc.

But it was just not working, i could not live lie - I despise and hate him for the historic alcoholism and have separated now for good.

Maybe the Q am asking is why can't I forgive myself for enduring/enabling for so long - and even though there is not an apparent drink problem now - I am unable to get over the past - both what he did and what I didn't do (i.e. walk)

OP posts:
Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 09:53

An update (back to my OP name now - I was also 'Mylifepart2' on some of the earlier posts here). We decided to try again with our marriage and have been back together since March. He had been deeply involved with a new partner that he didnt tell any of us about whilst we were apart for the 6 weeks - so the last few months have been trying to understand if that relationship has any significance to our future - he has done the typical minimising withholding distorting lying about the details of that relationship over the past 3 months since he has been back - but he now says that all the lies/facts around the relationship are out there.

But that is not what I have come back to update on - it is just the background context - not sure if it is relevant or not.

Our drinking patterns since he has been back were quite intense (for me) to begin with - as we shared a bottle of wine every night - I rarely drank at all when we were separated. "We" have since cut out the M-F drinking so only share a bottle on Fri and Sat nights. Last Sat night I had gone to bed earlier that him (very usual) but woke at about 2am - went down to find him slumped asleep pissed on the sofa with an empty wine glass. I was confused as there was no other wine in the house after we had finished the single bottle earlier that evening - he claimed that he was not pissed (clearly was) and that the empty wine glass contained water. I tasted the last drop with my finger that was left and it was clearly wine -- he continued to deny it was wine and that he was pissed and as there was no other bottle about I could see I was confused and went back to bed.

Half way thru the next day he came to me with a confession - he tells me he has been secret binge drinking for years - he stays up after I go to bed and keeps a supply of wine in the boot of his car - says he drinks another 1/2 bottle alone - I have no idea if this quantity is correct - or if the quantity is even relevant.

just wanted to say that all the things you have said before are spot on - it is a progressive disease - and there is nothing "historic" about his alcoholism.

My "historic" feelings of humiliation, disgust, no trust etc are back - and this discovery/revelation sheds a new light on why our marriage fell apart.

I did not know why he would not work at it - I did not know why he was distant, moody unreasonable - I did not know that he was pissed and hungover over the past 5/6 years - I did not understand why I was so unhappy with our relationship.

He has since said he is now dry again - he asked me yesterday if i was proud and pleased for him that he had gone teetotal. I did not know how to answer as I dont feel that.

Feel cheated disrespected lied to - I have no idea what the reality of my life has been or is now.

What do I do.

OP posts:
Allovernothing · 20/07/2015 11:32

I've NC for this for obvious reasons!
I didn't quite understand the timescale. Was he drinking and drunk this Saturday? If so claiming he is dry, isn't possible until it's totally out of his system. I had a drink problem for 20 years and not till I reached the absolute rock bottom (putting my own and others lives at huge risks) did I actually get the help I needed to stop. I had been half heartedly stopping or cutting down for years.
Your husband needs to want to stop, and unfortunately this is quite commonly only achieved when he hits the absolute bottom.
You can't do it for him, he needs your support, but needs to get help for himself.

ImperialBlether · 20/07/2015 11:43

I started this thread from the beginning and was so glad you'd ended the relationship and were going to get a divorce.

I'm sorry but what the hell did you expect? You knew he was an alcoholic. You knew he wasn't going to stop. You had people on here with personal experience telling you this, too. Why on earth did you expect him to just stick to a couple of glasses a night?

It seems as though you are addicted to him, just as he is addicted to alcohol. Maybe you need to cut him out as ruthlessly as he needs to cut out alcohol.

ImperialBlether · 20/07/2015 11:44

Allovernothing, they are both drinking - he's not claiming he's dry, though he claims he's not drinking mid week.

ImperialBlether · 20/07/2015 11:45

I meant, I started reading this thread, not that I started the thread!

Allovernothing · 20/07/2015 11:58

He has since said he is now dry again - he asked me yesterday if i was proud and pleased for him that he had gone teetotal
This is what I didn't get, he is claiming he is dry, is he only talking about mid week?

Duckdeamon · 20/07/2015 12:04

even before his recent affair this relationship is seriously bad news for you and would be best ended.

Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 12:05

It was two Saturdays ago (11th July) that I found him pissed on the sofa, when he claimed he had drunk no more than the 1/2 bottle earlier that evening.

He then came to me and told me the next day that that he had been secret binge drinking wine hidden in the boot of his car when I was in bed for years.

I am assuming this refers to the last 5/6 years (which followed his 5 year dry spell) when from the outside I had seen it start again v v slowly ie in the beginning a larger a day on hot holidays twice a year - and then up to the nightly 1/2 bottle - of which I expressed concern on this thread earlier this year.

The additional secret binge drinking is a revelation to me and I am stunned and shocked.

He is claiming he is dry now and has not drunk at all since 11th.

OP posts:
Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 12:07

No he is claiming he is 100% teetotal. He says that he is obsessed by drink and his mind is preoccupied with when he can next drink.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 20/07/2015 12:11

Does he understand he's very unlikely to stay sober without professional help? Do you understand that, too?

Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 12:11

Duck It technically was nt an affair as we had separated the day before (I know, I know...) but he went to great lengths to keep his new relationship hidden from his children, friends and family and me (for those weeks technically I was his x wife..) - so the lies and deception was there and the impact when he was rumbled had the impact of an affair on the family.

OP posts:
Allovernothing · 20/07/2015 12:13

You will obviously be able to tell if he is drinking. He doesn't seem to have a great history in telling the truth. You must know the signs, it all seems that he has given up very easily.....in fact a bit too easily, for someone with a problem.

Duckdeamon · 20/07/2015 12:17

That's an affair in my book!

If he is finally ready to admit his alcohol problem and seek help (himself) then good for him, but especially given all that's happened (for 20+ years and the last 5 and this year) it's not your job to facilitate this or cheer him on and in the process suppress your own anger and other feelings. He could pursue sobriety while living separately, giving you the space to focus on yourself.

Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 12:20

Imperial yes I know that and he knows that - but only now.

I learnt from this thread earlier this year that alcoholism is progressive - and I thought that I had watched him slip steadily and slowly over the years - but I thought it was not horrific like the years before - what I know now, as of the 12th, is that it was even more horrific as it was secret and I only saw the tip of the ice-burg.

It is up to him though, to seek help and engage with this directly - I have nothing left to give him. I dont know how to support this.

OP posts:
Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 12:30

Allover - I did not see it this time. I dont know if I will see the signs.

I had seen it, in all its hideous glory, in the past (ie the 20 years prior to the 5 year dry spell) - hence my original "historic alcoholism" thread title.

Duck - yes I and he agree with the 'affair' definition - I am just being generous pointing out the technicality.

Thank you for giving me the permission not to feel obliged to be his support crew and cheer him on - I feel guilty about this.

OP posts:
ImperialBlether · 20/07/2015 12:31

You can't actually do anything about it - that's one of the hardest things to face. It doesn't matter what you do.

However in your position I'd be protecting myself and my children and I'd be living separately from him. He hasn't hit rock bottom. If you leave or make him leave then he'll get to rock bottom quicker than if you stay and protect him.

Duckdeamon · 20/07/2015 12:35

The DC are important here: I doubt it is in their interests to live with him.

Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 12:52

Imperial when I asked him to leave at the beginning of this year as our marriage was by then well and truely over - which at the time I thought was for other reasons - only now I see and know, that alcohol was behind everything - he just launched from one inappropriate activity to another.

When he left he was terrified he would become the lonely alchi in the dirty flat - as I had predicted but which I also did not want to precipitate, by calling time on the marriage - so avoided that decision for many years.

So he decided to get out of the house by hooking up with someone highly inappropriate to distract him from his drink demon. That relationship was a car crash that he threw himself into and he tells me he drank sensibly during those few weeks as he was on his best behaviour.

If I asked him to leave again I dont know what he would do. My kids were devastated when he left - and delighted when he returned - I just cant put them thru that again right now unless it is over.

I think though that I need some space living under the same roof somehow.

OP posts:
StickEm · 20/07/2015 12:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ImperialBlether · 20/07/2015 12:57

The children are like you, aren't they, ever hopeful that everything will change?

Children don't like uncertainty. When he left they must have realised he was in freefall. You must have been in a state. No wonder they hated all that.

How old are they?

Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 13:04

I really dont think that the children are aware that he has a problem with alcohol - as they dont see him drunk - neither did I as he was binge drinking thru the night when we were all asleep.

They are very concious that he is a moody miserable grumpy git - as this is the bit (ie hangovers) that they see and experience. They have not connected these moods to alcohol yet. They are 9-17.

OP posts:
LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 20/07/2015 13:15

He says that he is obsessed by drink and his mind is preoccupied with when he can next drink.

This is TRUE. His truth. Why aren't you believing him? There is nothing in his life apart from drink - that's his true 'affair'. His every waking moment is consumed by the next drink he can have in his hand.

You have to leave this man, for your sake, for your children's sakes.

He didn't 'drink sensibly' when he was away, by the way. He continued to top up from his car. He has no concept of sensible drinking because that's the way he's wired.

pocketsaviour · 20/07/2015 13:20

I am sorry to say this OP but your older child will certainly know about the drinking and may well start to drink inappropriately themselves soon.

So the current situation is that he is living with you but claims not to have drunk alcohol since the 11th. Do you believe this, now that you know he has been lying to you for over 5 years of your marriage?

He has not sought any treatment for his drinking from GP, AA, Drinkaware or similar.

He threw himself into a relationship the day after you ended your marriage because, basically, he needed a soft place to land in on. He continued drinking during this time, he claims "in moderation", more probably he was drinking heavily.

OP you don't sound ready to call time on your marriage, although I think you should. It sounds like you feel you are responsible for fixing him. Does this ring true to you?

Would you consider attending a meeting of Al-Anon to get some support for yourself?

Somethingtodo · 20/07/2015 13:44

LonnyVonny - yes I do believe him when he says he is obsessed and preoccupied by drink.

pocket - I also believe that he has not drunk since 11th - the reason is that he confessed to this and proactively chose to tell me about the last 5 years of deceit - I had no idea - he did not have to tell me that.

I am assuming he is getting some insight into his issues as we have been doing CC for the last 3 months and lots has come out about the need for "truth".

But whether I believe him or not is irrelevant - he has to believe himself and make it happen - I feel shocked at this revelation - but it all fits.

I need to go to Al anon myself whether he chooses to do so or not - I also want him to front it out with the children and I would like the older teens to come to al anon with me.

I will give him one opportunity to tell them himself - otherwise I will tell them directly. They need to know what is going on under their nose and why their Dad is a moody miserable grumpy git and why out marriage is such hard work.

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 20/07/2015 14:02

I think that's a good idea for your older one to attend Al-Anon and he must tell the DC the truth.

Has he agreed to seek any treatment for himself? White-knuckling his way to sobriety without any help is unlikely to work well.