Being Stupid? **V.Long**

[newdad1978]

First Post Grab a wine/beer, a dictionary and a thesaurus. It's a long one - sorry!

We have been together since 2010, and had our daughter 6 months ago. Even before she got pregnant, our sex life was on the decline. If I'm honest we didn't/don't communicate as well as we should, even though it's in both our natures to do so. I think it stems from me wanting to please her sexually and 'be the best' right from the start and her, knowing her own mind and body not being as open to trying things I liked and felt good at (and had worked well with lots of previous partners) at all.
She would say "Ow" that hurts then say I was too big, or I would try some interesting and usually orgasmic/multi-orgasmic style manipulation of her 'bits' and she would lock up and say I don't like it (in my mind before she had tried to enjoy it, but then - who am I to say she should carry on something she didn't like the sensation of even if just for a few seconds?).

Basically I have spent my whole sexually active life being an unselfish and I liked to think competent lover, always putting the girls desires and needs above my own, not entirely selflessly I admit - because it felt good to me know I was being one of the best they had had. That sounds so big-headed but seriously I'm trying to summarise quickly. I couldn't be less big-headed if I tried!

Anyway, I wasn't able to try anything new so I lost confidence quickly and realising the things she seemed to like me doing the first few times were actually more of her in pain than pleasure but because it was a new relationship she wouldn't be so rude to say so. I feel she was hard to please, critical even and she would say I was too sensitive and she was just telling me what she liked - fair enough right? I put it down to a bit of both, a slight incompatibility in that moment. I mean, I had lots of success in the past and no, I'm not so naive that I only imagined the previous women liked stuff I did :)

Okay so sex went okay on the whole. Without being experimental we settled into a niche where I went down on her (I love that so much) and she would cum very quickly with me doing that and often I'd do it multiple times for her, being gentle after she'd cum obviously the 1st time. She would do stuff for me or we would have what I call guilt-free sex. She had already cum multiple times and would probably just want me to cum at that point so on occasion we'd have quick missionary sex (she loves doggy but says it hurts too much with me...hmm!). That has been our thing for a long time now and we don't talk very much at all about it, and over the last 2 years it's gone less and less frequent. Even when planning a baby it was only when she was likely to get pregnant and of course it was perfunctory - not for real pleasure or passion.

Then during pregnancy we had sex about 3 times, and aftwerwards, so far...nothing. Now I am FINE with that. Even though I used to be basically a sex addict before I met her and would want sex multiple times a day, but in practice nearly every day at least once. I mean, it's a big thing and I would never put pressure on her to have sex until she's ready again but I'm sure you can spot the problem?
Yes, we have let ourselves get in a horrible rut. Now I feel unloved even from before the pregnancy, I feel she doesn't hold hands, sit near me or make any contact with me (again, before the pregnancy as well as now). She's distant sometimes (as are we all I know at times). I feel unattractive to her and she does nothing to reassure me otherwise. I always seem to get stuff wrong in her eyes. She trusts everyone' opinion over mine and basically years and years ago I was a jealous person but got myself counselling due to it's destructive nature and I overcame it on the whole, but lately I have felt the horrible ache of self-pity, self-loathing and resentment - which quickly turn to jealous and paranoid feelings.

I'm only pointing out the bad bits here, there are good things too, most of all our beautiful daughter who has given us 6 of the hardest months ever but very rewarding. We have been a solid team, sharing responsibility and feeds and me trying to go above the norm to help her out. In the end though again I never seem to get it right in her eyes. If I stay up til 4am covering her wake-ups and cries and then go to sleep I can't get up early so I go to work for 10am, finish at 7pm, get home for 7:30pm and then she moans I haven't seen our daughter and after a while of this she crie and wants me to change stuff. Really hard when you're trying to do stuff to the most helpful in the first place! A lot of dads on her NTC group don't even see the baby as anything to do with them until they're older or they say "I work full-time so thats my job" etc and she acknowledges that but still wants me to do more.
I'm sure she has lots of gripes with me too and that's part and parcel of a relationship. It's fucking hard and you carry all this baggage with you.

Okay so fast forward to the other night where I am feeling particularly low about how she feels about me and I take our daughter upstairs for her to have a nap. I get her to sleep and then on the bed I notice her phone...
...Yes. You guessed it. The evil jealous feelings that had been creeping up on me due to feeling unattractive, unwanted and a little bit sorry for myself just made me want to see if there was anything to see.
I've never done that to her before and only to one other person, and it was very destructive as I found something I needed answers for but could not ask. In the end I couldn't pretend I didn't know and had to confess what I'd done. Turned out she was doing something wrong (this was an ex) but even if she wasn't it would have been over due to me breaching the trust. I know this and yet I succumbed this time too Desperate is how I felt. Desperate for something to justify and explain why she seemed to not even like me a lot of the time and yet in other ways and at other times quite loving towards each other...

So here's a transcript of a message I found from one of her younger, female friends at the office (this was from back in September - when daughter was 2 months old):

FRIEND: I've got a meeting with SB on Friday morning at half 8! Who's a lucky thing? (then a smiley face with hearts in the eyes) xxx

MY GIRLFRIEND: WTF??? Well Jealous. Swooooooon. I miss him (and you) xxxx

FRIEND: Hahaaaa - we (heart) SB! I miss you more. xxx

Okay, so I've just read what is basically a text tat a lot of people might send regarding a fit co-worker. THis kind of thing happens and we all never see it but it still shocked and hurt me that my girlfriend was 'Swoooooning' and missing a guy who is fit, whilst she's not even looking at me in any way. I may sound selfish but jesus, I felt hurt (and guilty for reading it).

Anyway, the seconds thing I read pertained to my birthday which was on 10th January and we went to a shopping centre together with our daughter too. We were in John Lewis' and suddenly my girlfriend blushed like mad, and a guy talking in the same Northeast accent as her walked up with his kids and talked in front of me with her (with her blushing the whole time awkwardly). It was only a quick impromptu stop-and-chat of 30 seconds or so, but long enough that I should have been mentioned or adressed in some way I think? She seemed very odd after it. I showed no emotion of course, my jealousy wasn't firing up so much a few weeks ago, although in truth I had clocked all the signs there. Her blushing, him being nonchalant to me like I didn't exist or wasn't important and her nonchalance aftwerwards. I didn't push her to explain the blushing etc as I blush sometimes too, even just for slightly awkward social things like that...so we got on with our day...

Okay so the second thing I read was from THAT DAY. In fact it was JUST AFTER that happened (probably when we were briefly separated in Boots).

MY GIRLFRIEND: I just bumped into SB at the shopping centre! Jealous? Ha x

FRIEND: I was there yesterday & I bumped into (a less attractive man I assume)! 100% Jealous! x

MY GIRLFRIEND: I actually blushed when he talked to me!! X

FRIEND: (two crying-with-laughter smileys) Aww you cutie! X

My GIRLFRIEND: David (Me) is with me! I avoided discussing why I was blushing! X

FRIEND: Oh noo!! I'll keep your dirty secret don't worry (winky smiley) x

Okay so that was on my birthday, out as a family talking about the same guy from the first message. I felt sick. There was nothing in there that said she had acted on anything, just kind of lustful banter between two mates towards a guy. Now, this guy was about 50 and yeah a smart and young-ish 50 but jesus he was no George Clooney or anything and that made me feel WORSE about myself. HE's the COMPETITION?"! She lusts over HIM?! FUCK, things are worse than I thought.
Also, is the 'dirty secret' just that she is blushing cos they fancy him...or is it that there's more to this than I know?.

So, I'd paid the ultimate price for my betrayal of trust, snooping etc. Id spotted something that didn't prove anything but made me feel ten times worse and I could never say anything to her about. My mood went down ten notches and now I can't hide it from her. Felt sick all today, tried to be normal tonight but i came to a head when she wouldn't stop asking me to talk to her. We talked and of course I didn't mention snooping but I did question her about why she blushed to that random guy the other day and why I wasn't introduced etc. I didn't make a big deal about it, as if it was just an example. I watched her closely as I said that years ago, that would have been a red flag for me and I would have obsessed over that encounter and be convinced there was 'something' there, whether it a harmless crush, a bit of history or a full-blown affair. Something. Her face didn't give much away but I bet she was thinking "WTF?, is he psychic?!" Of curse she said it's cos he's a VP, quite senior at her work and doesn't know him very well and she felt awkward and they weren't talking long enough to introduce us... All plausible but with my snooping antics I knew there was MUCH mroe to it than that. Found it so disrespectful when she's out with me on my birthday to be texting her mate over a guy she has the hots for who was in front of me too. I dunno. But then - I snooped so that's disrespectful.

So we agreed we need to get our communication back on track, our sex life needs a major, major boost where we talk and take criticism and all that but our daughter woke up before we could finish talking and it's still unresolved really, and I feel sick to the stomach still over this knowledge I have that she doesn't know I know!
Can I live with knowing it? What about work outings and parties. Am I gonna be able to not worry?! Have I just fucked myself (and us) big-time by having a momentary lapse back to my old destructive jealous ways? I think I have a fight on my hands to tell you the truth.

I love her, I love our child and I think that's bigger than most things.
However, I'm always going to wonder if she's done more than just admire him. How do I stop myself thinking about this and really trying to mend the relationship?

Sorry for the epic, boring, schizophrenic ranting and no doubt awful grammar etc. Kind of venting here and it's hard to describe 4 years + of a relationship so quickly. There are lots of good in between all this shite too!

Any opinions are welcome. Try not to bash me too hard (I'm expecting it), my actions were out of me feeling pathetic and I hope you see that.
I'm kinda interested in opinions on what she has said in the texts and all that really. Am I right to be worried, or does it read quite harmlessly to people who have no emotional entanglement?

Thanks,
D

way too long mate

Just for you

I couldn't be less big-headed if I tried!

Yes you could, you really, really could.

OK, so fast forward... dead giveaway, buddy.

I think you are trying too hard. If you really wanted to be the best she's ever had you would go at her pace and let her tell you what she likes and you would actually listen when she tells you.
For women its not all about technique and multiple orgasms. Its about feelings too. If she feels desired and loved and knows that you will do whatever she asks without feeling like she's being compared to all those exes before her you might both enjoy it more.
As for the texts - shame on you for looking at her phone! All the girls in my office have a crush on our CEO and we would send the same texts to each other if one of us bumped into him in town. Lighten up and stop snooping.

You might want to get your thesaurus and look up "unanimous".

Mate, you're gonna get a bit of a flaming on a predominantly female forum- try and ignore the misandry that's already evident.

Personally, I wouldn't be able to not say anything as it's clearly eating you up. You need to know exactly what's going on. I suspect it may be nothing; she may even just been 'playing along' with her mate re. fancying this bloke. I would talk to my partner and explain what you found and why you were looking. It will be a tough conversation, and I suspect she may try and deflect the row on to the snooping element, but as is rolled out time and time again on these forums, the snooping was justified by what you found. Your partner doesn't want you to be unhappy I am sure, so it will all be worth it in the end. Good luck!

Ignoring 95% of your post, because it sounds like it was written by a smug teenage boy humble bragging to his wide eyed mates.

For the ACTUAL questions that you managed to hide in there towards the end:

I don't think there is anything wrong with snooping IF you have a genuine reason to believe something might be going on and IF it is a one off occurrence. Not keeping tabs on someone's communication. You fit that description, so can understand looking at the phone.

The messages on the phone are not exactly the MOST respectful, but at the same time, they are not that disrespectful either. They are talking about a MUTUAL girl crush on a boss. The fact that they openly joke about it with each other shows it's not serious.

Not introducing you was a bit rude.

If anything, it's your reaction which I find kind of pathetic. You get jealous about her joking about "swooning" over a boss? Seriously? Is your self esteem really tied that closely to your dick?

Grow up.

I can't begin to imagine why but it sounds as if you turn her off.

HTH.

And, just for the record CuriouSir, "misandry" is a word that has been made up by men who find it very, very difficult to accept that they have male privilege.

From the Urban Dictionary

As sociologist Allan Johnson notes, "misandry" has no place in a male-identified, male-centered world. Moreover, Johnson states: “And it takes almost no criticism at all in order for men to feel "bashed," like it's "open season on men." In fact, just saying "male privilege" or "patriarchy" can start eyes rolling and evoke that exasperated sense of "Here we go again.” (Allan Johnson, “Privilege, power and difference,” p. 197) "Accusations of male bashing and man hating work to discredit feminism because people often confuse men as individuals with men as a dominant and privileged category of people. Given the reality of women's oppression, male privilege, and some men's enforcement of both, it's hardly surprising that EVERY woman should have moments when she resents or even "hates" men.” (Allan Johnson, "The gender knot," p. 107
“Both movements (white supremacists and male supremacists) attack women and people of color for playing the victim card because they see white men as the real victims. (Michael Kimmel, "Privilege: A reader," p. 325)

The slightest deviation from male and white centeredness is perceived as a profound loss of privilege. This is why with each tiny step that women and minorities take toward equality, the outcry of white and male supremacists about how "oppressed" white men are has been getting louder.

The conservative backlash is in overdrive to protect their illegitimate, unethical, hierarchal system of privilege. Many White heterosexual men feel "oppressed" and rave about the mythic "misandry."

If your manfeelz can't handle being told that you are behaving in a boorish manner, don't blame it on the women telling you the truth, try having a look at yourself instead.

:0) And, just for the record..ALL words have been made up at some point or another. Did you think they just appear from nowhere?

That OP is one of the most pathetic things I have ever read in my entire life and I would think that whoever wrote it. The idea of someone earnestly performing a repertoire of Party Tricks That Sent Those Who Came Before Wild is just laughable and it's nothing to do with gender. I can assure you that if a woman had posted that she'd have had her arse handed to her just as the OP did and deservedly so. I'm sorry one or two little princes on here had their feelings hurt but please do rest assured that both the genders would have been treated with immaculate equality, certainly by me anyway.

I agree with you. You are "being stupid".

Fancy telling a woman she must like the things you thought "worked well" with previous partners.

Re. the "holding hands" thing. You need to talk to her (away from the bedroom) and tell her you don't expect affection to = sex.

I do find your long and tedious description of your technics techniques a bit odd though...

How would you feel if your wife's inner monologue during sex was all "yeah, I'll stick my finger up his arse, because Alan really used to like that, wait what, no way he doesn't like it??? BORING. So, ok, try tickling the balls then, yeah, James used to love his balls tickling, nope, that's no good either, Jesus, what does this guy even like??? Etc etc etc"