Handling MIL

[Efferlunt]

Not sure where to start with this, but there has been some good advice on MN on this type of thing. My MIL has many good points. She adores the kids and is great with them for eg but is very controlling and opinionated. We moved quite near them last year (huge mistake for many reasons!) but they are still 20 mins away. She is generally hypercritical of other's lifestyle choices when they are different from hers (I use the wrong type of washing up sponge apparently and I was stupid for babysitting for a neighbour as she wouldn't have offered in the same situation - the list goes on)

Generally FIL DH and SIL have dealt with this over the years by not reacting and going with what she wants. I said if we were moving nearer to them I wasn't prepared to do this for the next 30 years so my approach is to challenge her politely I.e. 'I know you do x this way I prefer to do it this other way and wouldn't it be a dull world if we were all the same' or 'I know you would go to a wedding in this circumstance but I would and im the one who's been invited so I'm going' occasionally I wheel out the tried and tested. 'Did you mean to be so rude?'

Any way I've just got off the phone with FIL who's very upset and wants to work out how we can stop pressing each other's buttons. I suspect he gets a lot is flack about this stuff at home. She was cross for a week because she thinks I laughed at her (she'd said she was going to tea with the village people and everyone around the table laughed but she has interpreted this as me laughing at her) he also said that she feels 'taken advantage' of re childcare. We don't rely on her for childcare - that was one of my stipulations about moving - but she does do the odd day if I have a meeting and she usually offers to pick up our youngest from childcare early once a week. Very nice for them both but not actually helpful in terms of childcare. I always thank her but I do not however show the appropriate level of gratitude for her to want to continue to do this.

Anyway FIL wants to have a 'family talk' about how we improve things. He accepts that MIL will not compromise much but hopes I can. I suppose I could try harder. This situation does not bring out the best in me - but how do I set boundaries?

Nicki is right - the "family meeting" will end up as you being Mrs Nasty...
Tell him no need for a meeting, your sorry she is upset and you will try to be more tactful - [you are sorry she's upset - it makes things difficult, and you are not promising to actually do anything she says, are you?]

My MiL was very similar....eventually we worked out how to get on, so there is hope, especially as you say she loves the DC.

I would: Stop using her for childcare, if she asks you if she can have the DC, fine otherwise, don't go there!
This type of family matriarch likes to be in charge, and is not afraid to cry, wail, bitch and grumble in order to get her own way - does she do the "woe is me, no one appreciates all I do/have done" routine as well?

I found the best way to deal with it was to make non-committal comments, perhaps agree, then do what I want, as in [genuine exchange with my mil 35 years ago] MiL: "Your oven could do with a clean, I always wipe mine over with a solution of bicarb before I cook anything, then it all wipes clean when you wash it off while the oven is still warm..." me: "Really? That's very interesting, I might have to try that..." 35 years later my oven still needs cleaning, we got to the point where we joked about it.
For more important issues, like going to a wedding of someone she disapproved of, either don't tell her or just say things like "well we're all different..." as you have been.
Try not to react to everything she says - stick to your guns over the important things, don't react and loose your temper, its what she wants!

OP just read your update - there was a family meeting about your house move!!!!!!!

A large step back is required if they think that is any of their business.

I think I'd advise against any 'just the two of you' meetings because you won't have any witnesses. Truly, you will be better off with witnesses op because then she won't be able to make up random shit and play up any micro-expressions of yours into full-blown screaming in her face (as it might end up being recounted).

I've read enough transcripts of MIL-DIL conversations that ended badly on here to be VERY wary of that approach....

I agree with averylongtimeago re: phrases like "Really? That's very interesting, I might have to try that...", I use something similar....

Also not picking her up on EVERYTHING, as that would be a little mean. We let things go even in people we like, after all.

Hmm, tricky.

Is the childcare issue because she is genuinely upset/feels used, or is it an emotional blackmail thing i.e. if you don't just give me my way like everyone else there will be consequences.

This is important, because if she is really controlling and prepared to be blackmailing, you just have to back off a bit and make sure she doesn't have many levers of control over you, so I agree with duelling, stop using her for childcare. If she is genuinely upset then a different, gentler tack (but one aimed in the same direction as you just standing up to her) might work.

My MIL is hypercritical. However, she does direct it towards herself as much as anyone, so it is really easy to see that she was brought up by hypercritical parents and isn't really aware of it, even though it makes her unhappy too.

When DH and I first bought a house together she really outdid herself in more than one way. So much so that DH did have word with her about it. But it was very much in the "How do you think that made her feel, remember when similar happened to you, how did you feel?". And that really worked.

Also, I am was already the only person of the extended family who engaged with her as her rather than her role. So I took an interest in her hobbies/interests/opinions and spoke her about those, rather than just treating her as a mum/granma/wife with no mind or thoughts of her own.

But she is a genuinely nice person, who was brought up with a lot of criticism herself, and who had some insight into the unhappiness it can cause.

It's not perfect now, but it does work ok and there is genuine fondness between us (have to be careful with that one though, so as not to invoke the wrath of jealous SIL...but that's another story).

So, I would say that if you do go ahead with the family talk, take it as an opportunity to be honest, but be as gentle as you can with it. That the criticism grinds you down, so whilst you don't want to be confrontational, at times you do feel that you have no choice but to defend yourself. Ask if she found criticism from her parents difficult to handle and if you can find a new way of interacting together that makes you both happier.

She doesn't have to compromise as much as you, but she does have to compromise/change a little bit, otherwise you are making a rod for your own back.

From later posts it sounds much more like an emotional blackmail thing. Especially re the meeting re your house move. (so she is much more like my SIL than my MIL)

Good thing DH is supportive!

So I would avoid a family discussion, no more child care, avoid as much as you can, use a combination of gently challenging and non-committal remarks when she is hyper critical.

If she is a hyper controlling matriarch who will win at any costs, the only thing you can do is keep your distance and ensure she has nothing to hold over you!

And move away again as soon as you can.

I would agree that it would be a good idea with Fil and just never be available. I'm afraid treating mil and Fil and talking to them differently will not work. Fil is being manipulative, it's his shit to deal with and frankly nothing to do with you.

I had this exact dynamic with my mum and dad and played the dutiful daughter for far too long, mum finally behaved when I started to ignore all the bad behaviour and not engage with any discussion.

Don't go to any meeting there is literally no point.

Thanks everyone this is helpful. I do tend to pick her up on more than I probably - should let some stuff go , but it's gets me annoyed I need to keep remembering about the moral high ground.

The house meeting happened when I was very ill with PTSD and depression after a near fatal incident. (Probably why the house move was such a terrible idea at that point in time) I was all over the place but stronger now. I guess I have some residual anger about her taking advantage if my being in that state tostick her oar in with DH who has been conditioned to do as he's told.

Effer that makes it even worse really.

Moral high ground is very important. You behaviour needs to be unimpeachable. That in no way means you have to give in to her demands or poor behaviour but it does mean you need to stay calm and pleasant while you do it.

I have had a experience in this area (without the weird family meetings!) let's just say the power balance has now shifted, without any arguments.

Let the small stuff go, as long as it is small stuff.

Bear in mind always that this is your DH's Mum and he loves her.

OP, I'm assuming your dh works and you look after the dc mainly.

So another way of looking at it is not that she looks after the children when you have a meeting, but that she does so when her son is working and you have a meeting. It's not for you, personally - it's to support the family pattern you have both chosen.

Why should it be just you thanking her for picking up the dc? They are her son's dc too.

I'm glad you can do without her childcare-with-strings.

And any meeting based on the understanding that one party won't compromise but the other party is being asked to, is not worth having.

But yes, you could end up being damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you do go, you have to be absolutely calm and polite throughout. And you and your dh really should talk about it between yourselves first, both of you decide what you want from this and what you are going to say, and both say it - there needs to be not a cigarette paper between you.

And wot Plumping said.

How about getting back in touch with FIL and say, as childcare is a problem for her, you wont ask her any more. Clearly it's not going to solve his problem, but it is showing your teeth in a way that might make her realise she doesn't have quite as many cards as she thinks.

Sorry op but is it just me who finds it funny shes going to tea with teh village people.I have visions of her sitting beside the indian or the cowboy.
Sorry not helpful at all.

I haven't read TFT but (and I know I'll be going against the majority here) but sometimes in life, especially with the in laws, it's best not to resist who they are. Don't take them to literally etc

This is because: it's emotionally draining, it causes maritial strife, lots of stress and it's your husbands parents who raised him.

See it this way: your circus, your monkeys (dh) And keep away from it all as much as possible.

If you invest too much it will just eat away at your emotional energy!

Good luck

"re childcare she offers we don't ask"

So decline the offer. particularly the looking after for meetings, that clearly is not working for her.

She must know to offer, though. That you have a meeting must be mentioned somehow?

This meeting will not go at all well and you should not attend. It will not go at all well. You will likely feel much frustration at them because no matter how nicely you put your points across, it will be seen by MIL and for that matter them (because she has trained them well) as a personal attack. These people also like nothing more than a) a fight and b) the last word.

His mother has always been like this. Do not engage any longer with any of his parents nor SIL. Her H and SIL are really what are known as winged monkeys; they are being used by MIL to do her dirty work for her. Rewarding her bad behaviour as they have done (and FIL is also the bystander in all this too; he has acted out of self preservation and want of a quiet life) has further only reinforced her own bad behaviours.

Controlling, opinionated people like MIL do not make for being good grandparent figures to your children and yes they do see you being undermined indirectly. Their actions send them mixed messages; they "love" them but they also disrespect you as parents and want you to tow their party line. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different. If they cannot or will not behave, they do not get to see you.

Your DH is also being used by his mother similarly; after all he has had a lifetime of such conditioning which is hard to undo and may actually never be fully undone. I think he would far rather upset you than his mother and is also likely to have a lot of fear, obligation and guilt re his parents too.

Jesus, do not go to that "family meeting"

You are being summoned so that you can be put back into line.

And what line? It's your house, your children, your house move, etc... You have a controlling MIL who wants it to be All About Her, even when it's not, and she has an ally in her husband, who just wants everyone to placate her for a quieter life for him.

Stop using her for childcare.
See her as little as possible.
And do keep picking her up on her shitty behaviour: you shouldn't have to put up with it.

I am really aghast at your story about the first "family meeting". Your own timing of your own house move, and she manages to make some kind of martyr act out of that... . Just avoid this woman as much as possible: she's beyond reason.

Do not go to this meeting!

If you are pleasant and polite, that will be forever remembered as belittling and patronising.

If you lose your rag, however justifiably, that will be remembered as you bullying and threatening mil.

If childcare continues, even at her request, that will be you taking advantage and being ungrateful.

If you politely decline offers of childcare, that will be you refusing access and a relationship with your children.

People like this operate in an Alice in Wonderland world and it does not matter how reasonable or assertive you are as history will always be re-written. The situation continues because of the people around them that allow it, so you were right to hint that fil's approach has been part of the problem imo.

Actually I think this is a MIL and FIL problem. They are singing from the same hymn sheet, even if their motives are slightly different.

Brucie. I think all your points are right I can't win.

I used to ask her to look after the children for the odd day when I had meetings etc but havnt done recently. She offered this but it's clear she thinks we need to spend more time with them socially as well to 'repay' this favor. We do see them every few weeks but we both work 12 hours days with our massive commutes and are not up for much at the weekend. We want some family time too.

At her request she picks up DS2 early once a week but this is her doing us a massive favor (he could be in the childcare I pay for during this time).

SIL is has sensibly moved to the other side of the country. She visits for two weeks in the summer and over Christmas. She doesn't communicate much with the rest of the family in the meantime which I have to say seems very sensible of her.

Durrstar - everyone round the table had a mental image of her with the cowboy and the Indian etc. we all laughed but not at her specifically. She thinks this constitutes me poking fun at her.

People like this are more than happy to rewrite history IME. It always amazes me that many of those surrounding them take on their version of the truth, even when they have witnessed the truth!

That's why I think it would be better for the op if she has witnesses to the conversation, humphrey; at least then she can't be accused of all sorts post-event.

op, if you do end up going to this (and I agree that you can't win, you can just not lose too badly) then please do follow the 'calm and composed' line outlined upthread.

Don't go, mate. She just wants you hauled to the head's office for failing to toe the line. She can do one.