HOw can I get him to move out? This is such a horrible life - can anyone advise?

[HenriettaBarnet]

H and my relationship is terrible and has been for a while, but I keep taking him back thinking it will improve. It won't and hasn't.

He has moved out a few times and come back (most recently because he lost his job and I felt sorry for him), promising to change, that he loves me, that it will all be different. It never is.

We're horrible to each other. its like fucking War of the Roses. I am very ashamed of myself as I am not v nice to him. But mostly during rows I end up in the corner sobbing while he is horrible to me. he accuses me of fake crying.

It's horrible for the children. I feel v guilty for what I'm doing to them. He has said previously that he won't leave because of the children. I think he is only with me because of the children.

I have decided that enough is enough. I've emailed a solicitor for an appointment. but he won't leave. he's on the sofa and is so horrible to me that I spend all of my time out of the house or in my bedroom. its a horrible horrible environment and I really can't see how he justify staying.

We probably can't afford to run 2 places and will have to sell up anyway. i've contacted estate agents, but he's said he'll be difficult and won't consent to a sale. I can't see where to go from here. He won't move out, he won't divorce, he won't sell. Its so awful I've contemplated leaving on my own.

Don't leave on your own

Go and see a solicitor and get some advice

If you need to go to court to get an order to sell the house as part of the divorce proceedings- so be it.

Is it worth going to counselling or do you feel that you are past that?

You can divorce him. You don't need his consent.

Be careful about leaving the home especially if you leave the children, even for a short period.

Get some legal advice and it will give you some clarity about what to do.

Don't I need to prove unreasonable behaviour to do it without his consent? Otherwise wait 2 years?

I can't wait 2 years.

I can't think straight actually because I no longer know what's true and what isn't. He says I am unreasonable, unhinged, selfish etc. and maybe I am. I believe that he is sometimes abusive, But then I think maybe he's not - I'm so horrible to him, maybe I'm abusive?

I dont think that counselling will help. he sits there very calmly while I get upset and start looking mad. We did it years ago (when our relationship was in a much better place actually!) and he just wanted to get confirmation from the counsellor that I was the one to blame. The counsellor focused on my fucked up parents and concluded that I was.

We don't really have any money for a solicitor as he hasn't got a job. Honestly, I'm a professional educated woman and I'm dealing with this so badly.

without a just cause - such as adultery or unreasonable behaviour, you have to wait 2 years anyway, even if he consents.

Do some research so that you know what is possible - here is a good start www.terry.co.uk/unreasonable_behaviour.html

If it comes to it let HIM divorce you on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour - I did and it was the fastest way to get free. He felt 'vindicated' and I didn't even read the grounds he'd cited until a few years later. You need to be able to detach from the emotions though and just treat it as something that has to be done to get your freedom.

ok so I am calmer today.
I've got an appointment with a rottweiler solicitor next week.

I think that we can afford to keep the house and should as it's in the best interests of the children. Can I force this?

He is saying that he will force a sale but only accept an unachievably high price. He knows that this will mean we have to move out of the area and get a much smaller place.

I know I can force a sale through a court order but can I get an order for the alternative too? (i.e. keeping the house?).

I've got 2 estate agents coming over too so will get a realistic view of the price.

I just need to work on keeping calm at home now.

I should say, he said he will only sell for a certain amount. He knows and I do that we won't get that amount. So he's not being very cooperative. He's a litigation solicitor and this is his life. I need some tactics I think.

Perhaps not a very good one if he lost his job? Is he working now?
You need to get as much info as possible together before seeing the solicitor. Details of finances in your/his/joint names. Do as much research as you can. there is loads of help online. Check out your rights (Section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act)
Don't go into too much personal stuff with the solicitor - time/money wasting. Stick to the facts.

These are two separate issues - the divorce/house sale and him moving out.

You may be able to get a court order forcing him to move out anyway - on grounds of harassment etc, especially if his behaviour puts you or your children in fear of violence.

Discuss it with your solicitor but make clear that your preference would be to force him to move out short term whatever happens with the house.

Believe me, you don't need to wait two years. The courts have no interest in forcing people to stay married. It does not take much to prove unreasonable behaviour - it can even be things like "he takes no interest in me anymore" or "he criticises me all the time".

Whereabouts are you? You need a good solicitor so you can find out how to proceed with minimum cost and emotional expense to you all, primarily the children.

He's working freelance with his clients. He told me before that he's earning at least as much as he did when he was in a firm. But he won't now tell me how much he is earning (as "I cannot be trusted with money") so I have no idea.

I presume that he can be required to tell us this.

I'll look at that section thanks.

It's difficult not to get too emotional with the solicitor, but I'm starting to feel that the main thing is to make him suffer as much as I can. (I know the main thing is to put the interests of the children first by the way, so I'm trying to be the bigger person here, but it's bloody hard). I no longer feel sympathetic to him at all - he's really not going to go without a fight.

I want to get him out short term so that we're not rushed into selling.

He doesn't want to move at all.

I am actually in fear of him. He's abusive - I'm sure of that. However, I wil have huge difficulty proving this as he is very very calm and I'm the one that keeps losing it. I'm the one who left last weekend as he was so horrible to me. I'm the one that hides in my bedroom as he's just too unpleasant. He's just so horrible to me that I have to avoid him as it's too upsetting. he says I'm faking when I cry. Its bloody awful.

but I'm the one that looks deranged.

If he has no job I don't think you can expect him just to move out of his home if he's got no job and nowhere to go. Are you both sharing finances and contributing towards household expenses. The only thing to do is consult a solicitor and see what the options are.

I would turn the bedroom into a living room and once the children are in bed, I'd go there and stay there.

I'd also be recording every single thing he says because if, as you say, he shows his real nature to you but hides it from others, you need a way of showing other people what he's really like.

How old are your children?

On a practical basis, what happens re food/washing etc?

Who pays for the food? Does he appear to be broke? I assume you have separate bank accounts. Who pays for the mortgage etc?

Start recording him. Get a hidden nanny cam or something. Just so that you have proof if he tries to make out that he is perfect and you start all the arguments.

If he is working freelance unfortunately it will probably be difficult to get a true idea of his income. However make a list of anything you both have - pensions etc. He cannot be forced to give all his finance details unless you go to court.
I know you want to make him suffer and it's all terribly emotional atm but you will eventually have to get past all that - especially as far as solicitors are concerned. Otherwise you will run up literally thousands of £s and get nowhere.
Re abusive - all you have to do is say how you feel - the fact that he is calm and he is emotional says it all

OK. He does have a job. He is a freelance solicitor. That is an extremely well paid job.

You don't have money for a solicitor? Well that's weird if he's a freelance solicitor. I assume what you mean is that he withholds and hides money so you can't afford a solicitor (or to move out).

You aren't doing his washing and cooking his food as well as taking care of his house and children are you?

Henrietta - you don't want a "rottweiler solicitor"; you want an experienced, realistic, firm person who will support you through this whilst minimising your costs. I speak from experience - my divorce costs so far are running at £30k+ and we're nowhere near the end. And I don't consider that my solicitor is a "rottweiler" although he IS really standing his (my) ground. I am divorcing a man who sounds similar in many many ways and warn you that the road ahead could be difficult. Mine took the stance very early on that I was the abusive one and as soon as we separated started phoning the police every time we had an argument claiming that I was being verbally abusive to him. In my case, we were arguing because of very real problems such as the fact that I was a SAHM and he cut off my access to any money the day after separation, leaving me unable to feed our children...! I came very close to being thrown out of my own home due to the unfounded allegations my H made against me; thankfully I got a non-molestation order in the end to stop him doing it and he moved out after 5 months.

Divorcing someone who has a tendency to be abusive/controlling/can't handle things not going their way can be very very hard. I have a court order after having to go to a final hearing regarding contact with the children and he STILL doesn't do what it says because he can't believe that he didn't get the outcome he wanted.

Don't let any of that put you off though; it is so worth it to be free. Please do PM me if you want to chat; also happy to recommend my solicitor if you are in or near London.

He is earning quite a lot of money. More than me. (not alot for London probably, but still not a small amount).

he won't tell me what that amount is though. We aren't very wealthy, we have debts and a large mortgage and I don't earn very much money. He's not earning City Solicitor rates. He hasn't paid any of his money into the account yet so I don't actually know whether he will pay it in and how much I'm expecting. He is controlling what is coming in - I have no idea what that amount is going to be and he's not telling me.

he has a separate bank account which he's set up, but I don't - I just have 2 joint accounts. I haven't yet asked him to leave them - although he's lost both of his cards so can't actually access the accounts! He does have access to internet banking though on our accounts and last month did withdraw money without telling me. I would say he's very controlling, but again, it's difficult to prove (and he says I'm the controlling one).

I'm not washing or cooking for him. Unfortunately because he's now freelance, he's working at home, so he's the one doing all the children's cooking. he's on the sofa and we don't do anything jointly. We are co-existing in the same house.

teapot my H sounds very similar to yours actually. mine also says I'm the abusive one. i think he is abusive - he's certainly extremely nasty, but it would be difficult to prove it as he is very charming to everyone. I would have to tape him covertly if I wanted to catch him at it.

I don't want a long protracted procedure, I just want him out of my house so that i can move on. I don't even want to damage him in the long term. really I just want the house and some maintenance each month. His earning potential is very high so he has potential to be very well off.

you need to get your hard financial facts ready how much equity in house, how much mortgage could you borrow on your salary, how much could he borrow, what houses could you both buy in the area etc. how much is rental (eg for a year while you sort out the house)

get your own sole account and have your salary paid into it so you have money you an access in case joint accounts get frozen.

if he not playing ball now it will be long and protracted, consider all options including moving with the dc yourself. if he does childcare now what would happen>? assuming you split care fifty/fifty - would you employ a nanny on your days?

why should he be the one to move out? you need a good argument. its both of yours house.

Hi Henrietta sorry for your trouble. You are living with a Water Torturer and will find him in Lundy Bancroft's Book "Why does he do that?"

All useful links and advice are on This Thread

He has induced Spaghetti Head so you can't think straight and believe you are the abusive one. When this happened to me I became quite deranged and ultimately moved out of the FMH which damaged my relationship with my DC for some time. All water under the bridge now I'm glad to say but there are better ways to deal with it all.

Keep posting and don't despair. Every day take a small step towards freedom. Open a personal bank account, sort out childcare, work out benefits. Little by little you can make it happen!

One of the problems in divorce (and there are many!) is that it's highly likely that both sets of solicitors will advise their clients not to move out. So you often end up in this horrible deadlock - and of course the children suffer.

c'est la vie - he says that, why should he move out?

ultimately we can't both stay in the house - it's very damaging for everyone, but especially the children.

he's weird, he's now texting me as though everything's all right. he does flip really strangely and it does mess with my head massively so I start thinking that I'm mad. Also, I do lose it with him in arguments (while he sits there calmly provoking me) and then I look like the deranged, abusive one. Like you KouignAmann I feel that I have no choice but to move out. I spend a night in a hotel last weekend as it was just so desperate. I'm not doing that again though my children really are the most important thing to me.

I will read through that thread - a while ago I bought the Lundy Bancroft book so I'll re-read it.

we have a live-in au pair in the house currently - if he forces me to sell we won't be able to have one and childcare costs will increase massively. renting in the area costs as much as our mortgage (more probably) for a smaller place where an au pair can't live in. There is absolutely no practical reason for us to sell. he knows that I will have to move far out of the area and this will mean a long journey to school for all, or school changes. This is not in the children's interests, but he will not agree to anything else.

he doesn't do any childcare although he has been doing school runs. He is back for tea time at the moment as we've reduced the AP's hours. In a normal existence (where we're both working full-time out of the house), I'm normally home for 6 and he's not. I normally take them to school/nursery in the morning. He's made that impossible for me at the moment as he's always bloody there.

I think him doing school runs and coming home early to cook dinner etc may well be the first steps in him saying he is the main carer for the dc.