That book Not Just Friends

[winkywinkola]

I've read about it on here. I've just ordered it.

I'm almost dreading it arriving.

How does it help people?

You could have just said that, Vic, without slagging another poster off. Bad show.

Nonsense, the first thing I do everytime I hear the book mentioned is groan, having been forcefed it on here everytime I read a thread with interest for what seemed like an eternity I was very pleased to see the back of "The Script" . Of course "The Script" was one common scenario but when every woman who ever posted that her husband was struggling with continuing the relationship was told he was certainly having an affair and that he had to move out we had lost all objectivity. I don't see that so much now, with more open and varied discussions becuase there is no one strong poster pushing a particular view.

Advice does get hackneyed on here. Get an sti test. Get a cut and colour, get your botox done by that tracey woman. Anti pasta and Eton mess. You've got to be open to listening to alternative ideas.

I have never seen a woman who was getting cheated advised to have a cut+colour and get her botox done. You are both making stuff up.

Not on these threads! Not so sure anti pasti is given as a tip

If Id just discovered my husbands infidelity the most humiliating thing I could be forced to do was an STI test. I think generally they can wait.

Hi OP.

I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this situation.

What really strikes me is how little your husband seems to be doing to redeem himself.

1. He says he "wasn't unfaithful" but admits that he kissed this woman. Does that mean if you went and kissed another man he wouldn't consider that as cheating? Or is this some twisted double standard he is conveniently implementing for his own benefit?

2. He won't tell you how the affair started, and didn't let you see how it was ended. To me, those are huge. How can he expect you to trust him if he won't be honest with you? How little does he think of you that he believes it's for him to decide what you do and don't need to know

3. It's all your fault, apparently. Look through some of your posts here. He's sorry BUT you weren't giving him enough sex. He's sorry BUT you were the one not giving him any affection. He's sorry BUT you drove him to it. He's sorry BUT you weren't prepared to work on the relationship (did he even even raise the fact he was unhappy??). He's sorry BUT you put the children before him. An apology attached to blaming you ISN'T an apology. It's weaseling out of responsibility for his actions.

4. I'd be very wary of this supposed list of things to improve your marriage. Does it involve you becoming a stepford wife ready to cater to his every whim at the dtop of a hat? What the fuck do YOU get out of it?

5. He struggles, heroically, to commute to work every day, and oh the stress. Yet miraculously still has time to go mooning off on dates with another woman .

If he had raised this a long time ago, there would be ways forward. Moving so he had less of a commute. You maybe working part time so you guys could get some sort of help in the house to take the burden off you. You guys making an effort to go on dates. But now? He won't take responsibility for what he has done. He won't even accept that he was unfaithful. He can still only see his needs and his wants.

So. This is what I have been told. Please understand I have not made up my mind about this and what I really believe.

They met at a networking event held by his firm on 25th November. Lots of people there. Business cards exchanged etc. She seemed upset at the event. He asked what was wrong. She spoke about her marriage misery. He tried to cheer her up. He is the sort to 'rescue' people to be honest.

She then emailed him a couple of days later and asked if he wanted to go for coffee. He said he talked to her about his marriage issues. They met for coffee/lunch 5 times since then, holding hands, talking about how unhappy they both were. Boosting each other, telling each other they were both good people, attractive, didn't deserve to feel rejected. Lots of emails. A few 'phone calls. One kiss that "didn't feel right." No other physical contact apart from hand holding.

H has said how happy he felt to be with someone who made him feel like he wasn't in the wrong all the time. That he was actually doing okay in the things he does, that he is a good dad and can be appreciated as someone who does try hard. She the same. The emails I saw however, had a line: "I'm feeling horny now" and "Sorry to distract you" in it. He says that was talk that was part of the making each feel good after lots of rejection from their partners.

I think the only thing that held them back from a shag fest was the worry what a full on affair would do to their children. That they felt what they were doing wasn't actually that wrong because they had both tried to talk to their partners and their partners weren't responding.

H says looking back (more time has lapsed since he ended it than the actual length of their affair) how strange it apparently became so much so quickly. But that is obviously wasn't that much because he considers it nothing now.

H has talked to me about how I never hug him, how sex was so infrequent, how we never do stuff as a family, how we are always rushing around and it's not pleasant and can we do some stuff together? I am in charge at home and organise stuff for the dcs that includes weekend activities which means weekends are busy too.

He swears that he will never see/email/phone her again. And if she contacts him, he will ignore her. He says he is desperate for our marriage to work. We have both contributed to a list of what we think we need to do if we are to make it work. He has agreed to go to therapy.

I'm worried about re-investing in this. It would be a real whole new effort.

I'm also worried he's having some crisis. This will out me I'm sure but He came home the other night with my name tattooed on his bicep. You can laugh. It's an ambigram of my name. I don't like tattoos but he said he's always wanted to do it. Tried to do it on his stag do ten years ago but his friends stopped him. I was like, "WTAF? Is this supposed to be some grand gesture of commitment? I'd rather you just didn't have in depth personal conversations with other women, thanks." He just laughed and said he wanted to show me in some other way how much he is committed to me and our marriage and how much he wanted it to work.

So, I still don't know what to think. Should I just accept I stopped the blossoming relationship just in time? Trust him that he will not ever see her again or do anything like this again and just leave first next time? I'm confused and feel very fragile. He is wanting to keep us going and make big improvements.

Firstly, the way he describes how the affair began is very common - you will see that when reading NJF - have you got it yet? if not, try going to Shirley Glass website to have a look at her articles and quizzes.

Like most affairs, this one is all about ego boosts - they are mirroring each other and it quickly becomes intense and addictive.

He might be having a crisis and that there are problems in the marriage but having an affair is not going to help.

Re his list of complaints, I wonder if he did ever hug you?
Apart from moaning, what did he do to help your sex life such as date nights, taking over chores so that you are not as tired etc?
Has he organised family day outs and events? What did he do to ensure you get the time to do things as a family?

I get the impression that he left a lot of the running to you and this is something that needs to change if he is to be more involved in family life. Instead of moaning, he needs to take a more active role.

Always tried to hug me and initiate sex as well.

Started doing his own laundry and ironing to take some off me.

Suggested walks and games with dcs at weekends.

I feel I have failed too. I just carried on in the same way.

I rebuffed hugs and sex a lot. Too busy.

I have ordered book but not yet arrived.

I think you need to think about why you were too busy for hugs and sex. Can you honestly say that you both have equal amounts of child free leisure time? What does he do at weekends and evenings while you are busy?

Well, you're right. We need to do that

But I just don't know whether to believe he has told me everything. Does it sound plausible? Really?

I think I am willing to try again if I feel I have the truth. Do these things happen like this,? Complaining about your spouses and marriage can generate a real bond?

link for website

I cannot answer your question as to whether he has told you everything - and you probably won't know for some time. It is very common for cheaters to minimise and deny e.g they will only admit to what is proven. He need to prove his innocence and so far he hasn't really - deleting his last email was very dodgy.

Tell him that now is his chance to come clean - if you find out later that he lied, there is no going back at all.

Take your time, windy

don't feel rushed into making any kind of decision

he has to be totally transparent now, no more telling you what he thinks you need to know

I am seeing some positives here. I am seeing that you both have equal responsibility for your marriage if it goes forward but I would expect more acknowledgement that he is 100 % responsible for looking outside of it

the tattoo thing is laughable really....I would lose a bit more respect for such an ultimately empty gesture and your response was perfect

winky

Well he always deletes all emails. So that's not unusual. But I should have seen it. You're right. What can I do about that? What am I supposed to do to make that improvement? Make him send another when in theory they've have no contact since December 15th?

Is there a deleted folder you can access? If no, there is nothing you can do except to remember that its actions not words that you need to be watching. So easy to say all the right things but much harder to show these in one's actions - that way you really know if he is sorry/remorseful and committed to helping you recover.

He has said it was wrong what he did. He should have just left me a long time ago without meeting up with this woman. He has apologised several times but said he doesn't consider it an affair per se. Emotional bandage he calls. Emotional fuckwittage I called it. Call it what you want, it should not have happened.

But but but I still wonder if I was THAT bad. I mean I thinking in terms of h feeling like he has licence to do something like that again should he feel like it.

A female trainee asked him if they could go to lunch next week so she could get some career advice. This is not unusual but he checked with me first if it was okay and said they would go to work cafeteria.

The tattoo is teenage and it's like he's branded himself like a cow. That is what also worried me that he's having some sort of crisis.

He chose to have this affair (even if its just emotional) because it suited him more than investing in his own family life and marriage. He needs to look at how and why he gave himself permission to cheat.

He needs to work on addressing his boundaries - is he in the habit of meeting female colleagues to counsel them? does he share personal things with them? Does he do the same with male friends?

No. He's usually quite closed about personal stuff.

Yes he counsels both female and male trainees as to which area they want to work in.

And he starts counselling on Tues next week.

I wonder if we should go to one together. But we've talked and talked and talked already. Thrashing out what we both want and need and hope for and finding a common ground.

It still hurts and niggles and I still want to beat him round the head with a two by four.

And her. Who spills their guts at a networking event? But she herself is not relevant. I know that. Only her role to our marriage.

How important is it that they didn't have sex?

He did say he felt incredibly positive and happy after the few occasions they met.

You need time.

When the book arrives, make sure he reads it as well.

I ordered him the CD. He is happy to listen to it he says.