I have been very foolish

[Simbathecat]

I have just returned from a week abroad to attend my mums wedding to her partner, I went without my husband as he is working away.

I've had a lovely week with my mum and all of their friends and on my last night I was jokingly saying I'd been in bed by 10pm each night when the barman offered to take me to a club if I wanted. Mums partner has been coming to the island for 15+years and the general consensus was he was a "good guy". However I had had a lot to drink and no one thought it was a good idea for me to go. I was taken back to my room and made to promise to stay in. However very drunk and in the party mood all reason and common sense went out the window and I went anyway. I was not interested in this man whatsoever and naively thought he was my friend (him knowing my mums partner etc).

The inevitable happened and he had sex with me that wasn't consensual. I repeatedly said no, asked him to leave but he would not listen. I eventually left myself and got help from friends staying in the same building.

I have told my husband and he is devastated and very angry with me. He says that regardless of whether the rape happened or not my very act of meeting the man showed disrespect to myself, him and our marriage. He is of course correct.

He isn't home for another week and a half and I don't know how to fix this.

I can't believe I've been so foolish and naive to have put myself so obviously in danger and jeopardised my relationship.

Although there was evidence he had used protection I have taken emergency contraception and I will need to lie to work on Monday to make a humiliating visit to the health clinic.

[Italiangreyhound]

I really feel we women (I am assuming as it is mumsnet that most posters are women, as men often announce they are men/husbands etc) we should be supporting each other and encouraging each other. In fact as thinking feeling humans we should be supporting each other regardless of gender. We meed to promote the human rights of each other.

I apologise if any comments I may have made have been upsetting to anyone. All I want to do is support the OP and also to defend the view that rape is not women's fault. I know lots of other people want to do that here too but it seems to have got quote acrimonious.

[differentnameforthis]

In other words, it totally ignores the lack of consent and treats the rape as consensual cheating.

YY!

And it's not about telling women or married women what to do, or where to go, or trying to police their behaviour. Although there has been an ABUNDANCE of that, on this very thread!! Plenty of poster stated it was inappropriate for her to be out with another man, even in a platonic way!

Nobody in their right mind blames a rape victim for the attack, and nobody here has done that.

When you focus your attentions on the behaviour of the victim, you are making her responsible for her rape & taking away the responsibility from the rapist. THAT is why people are seeing victim blaming in posts where people claim not to be blaming her. Fwiw, I am sure those of you posting that you are not blaming her, are not blaming her...it is just that your posts are concentrating on her behaviour, rather than the rapists, and that is where you get into dangerous territory. By pulling apart what she did that night, you ARE placing some of the blame on her.

The focus of this thread has predominately been what the op did that night & focusing on her rebuilding the trust in her marriage (ffs), not on the rape.

Which is why many of us are angry! In the post where op updated that she spoke again to her dh, she is STILL questioning HER behaviour, so she still feels partly to blame, and much of that is partly thanks to this thread & the rape myths being peddled here.

He blamed his wife for her own rape and made a big song and dance about "working through it", ie as an infidelity. ... I can't see how you can justify that response without ultimately blaming the victim.
Agree!

If you would end your marriage over a comment like that then of course that's your business. I certainly would. Perhaps not straight away, but after a while, when I came to see that comment for what it was (blaming me for 'wanting' sexual contact, blaming me for welcoming it, blaming me for appearing available, for 'tricking' the rapist, blaming me for my rape) his arse would be handed to him.

I don't wear a wedding ring. That doesn't mean I am inviting any unwanted sexual contact from anyone.

Or is that the 'new thing'...if you don't wear your wedding ring how is a man to know not to rape you? So pleased the men I know don't think that lack of wedding ring = opens door for consent.

But I can't accept that this goes without comment in the majority of relationships. It's called trust!

I was 16 when I shared a hotel room with a man (separate beds) that I had never met before, but that my mum's new (about 3/4 months) partner knew (only 2 rooms left, mum HAD to share with her partner & left me with a stranger at 16 - just one more way she fucked up, she of course, should have made them share & been with me) I didn't get raped. Because he wasn't a rapist. He had plenty of opportunity. He was a great guy, also saw how inappropriate it was & after lights out felt uncomfortable enough about it, he went to sleep in his car!

I wonder if you would all pull apart my behaviour if I confessed to having been raped by him that night.

Will you answer my question now and name the posters who blame the op for being raped I have posted down thread (Sun 11-Jan-15 14:22:18), a few sentences taken from various posters who place the blame for the rape at op's door, by way of 'I told you so' type comments.

As I have said before, AS SOON as you start focusing on the victims behaviour, you are placing the responsibility on the victim, and taking it way from the rapist, this is victim blaming. Sure, no one has said 'op, you caused yourself to be raped' but they have placed the blame on her by analysing her actions of that night.

But no one forced me to go to his house alone and drink so much I passed out. A decent guy wouldn't have done what he did but I was stupid to put myself in that situation in the first place. No no no & a thousand times NO!!!

Blame is when you say 'it was your fault' still right? No. Blame is when you analyse the victims behaviour. Ask her to justify her behaviour, ask her if she was wearing a wedding ring, tell her she sent out the 'wrong massages', tell her she shouldn't have gone for a drink with a man while married,

Because by doing all that (which has been done many times on this thread) puts the responsibility for the rape on the victim, you are saying "if only you hadn't done x (drank), y (gone to a club with him) & z (taken off your wedding ring), you wouldn't have been raped" puts the blame on the victim & takes it away the responsibility from the rapist.

Ergo, you are blaming the victim.

[differentnameforthis]

Read Joysmum Sun 11-Jan-15 20:27:12 for all of those who don't' know what victim blaming looks like.

Op how did you tell your DH you were raped? Did you say "I got really drunk and the inevitable happened?" Or did you tell him you were raped. What has that got to do with anything?

STOP ANALYSING HER BEHAVIOUR!!!

To all those who have experienced rape ir sexual assault, I am so very sorry for what you endured.

[AnyFucker]

Joy, I have seen you post about your own experience of rape on MN before, so my judgement of your posts on this thread was informed

I think you have been completely out of order and your admission of "maybe I am projecting" does not make it ok

if you cannot support the op without judgement, you should stay away from the thread

[MorrisZapp]

Different, I'll ignore your second last post as yet again you're putting words in people's mouths (or rather, leaving them out, as you take the quotes about the OPs actions as a married person and apply them to her attack) and suggesting they are blaming OP for her attack when they categorically didn't. I can't stop you from doing this, and no matter what I say you will keep doing it so whats the point.

However, I have to take issue with your last post. If you seriously think that a persons reaction should be the same if their spouse phones them and says a) I got drunk last night with a barman and the inevitable happened
And b) I was raped
Then this conversation has gone beyond the bounds of any reality and you are not open to any form of reason. I understand that you think this is supportive of the OP but it comes across to me as something very different.

[OnlyLovers]

If the man she went out with hadn't been a rapist then this couple would be going through some major issues due to the OP breaking the boundaries.

For the love of God leave the OP's behaviour out of it.

[differentnameforthis]

Morris, I really need to stop talking with you. I have explained how victim blaming ISN'T just saying, "it was your fault" and how, by analysing what the victim did, what the victim said, wore etc is a form of placing the responcibility on her and taking it away from the rapist.

I now see that you dont think anything other than direct blame placing is victim blaming, so I have dine all I can to try to mske you see thst, imo, you are wrong. there really is no point anymore.

[MorrisZapp]

The discussion of her actions, words etc were about how they affected her marriage. Not about the attack she suffered. I'm fully aware of what victim blaming is, I call it out on other threads.

If you keep misquoting me I'll keep responding. It's in no way helping the op, and probably annoying for others on the thread but I cannot accept your accusations and will continue to defend myself.

[Vivacia]

victim blaming ISN'T just saying, "it was your fault" and how, by analysing what the victim did, what the victim said, wore etc is a form of placing the responcibility on her and taking it away from the rapist.

People who are complaining about being misinterpreted really need to have a think about why so many have been saying the same thing about their words. You claim you don't intend to victim-blame, so consider how your words are misleading.

[AnyFucker]

indeed, if enough people are interpreting your phraseology as victim blaming, it takes a certain kind of arrogance to dismiss that thought completely

why not reconsider how you come across if you really don't want to attract that sort of judgement ?

just a thought

[MorrisZapp]

How dare you accuse me of arrogance AF? I haven't victim blamed on this thread and if you think I have, could you please say exactly where, without removing other parts of my sentences?

No I bloody will not just think about it. Others do agree with me but they have given up. I'm not here for a bunfight, but I won't accept false accusations of victim blaming.

Perpetuating rape myths contravenes talk guidelines so please also report my victim blaming posts.

[lemisscared]

Well, this is a really useful and supportive thread

[lemisscared]

To me, Morris, what your posts are saying is this

The OP was raped, this is not ok and she deserves support

Oh, but she behaved like a slut and didnt respect her dh

Two separate things.

[RalphGnu]

Well, this is just about the most depressing thread I've read on Mumsnet.

[MorrisZapp]

You must have read somebody else's posts? Slut? How dare you accuse me of using, implying or even thinking this horrible misogynist word? Where did I imply it? Or hint at it? This is becoming surreal.

[BathtimeFunkster]

No, Morris, it has sounded all along that you are saying that the OP behaved like a slut.

You have been victim blaming over and over and getting on your high horse when anyone points it out.

It's quite embarrassing to read.

You must have serious trust issues in your relationship if what the OP did would cause significant strife.

[lemisscared]

I am not quoting you.

I just don't think it is OK to be questioning her behaviour on a thread where actually, it isn't relevant, at all.

[Topseyt]

As far as I can see only lem has used the word slut and has therefore lost any moral high ground she thought she had. Nobody else said it at all.

That was uncalled for. The OP is most definitely not a slut.

This thread is really getting totally ridiculous now. It should be locked. I agree with all of MorrisZapp's posts.

[HootyMcTooty]

Ok this is really a very unpleasant thread now. Yes there has been some victim-blaming but there has also been a fair amount of twisting people's words.

Most posters who have addressed the fact that OP feels guilty over going out in the first place, have clearly separated that from the fact that she was raped. Most have acknowledged that any concerns regarding perceived crossing relationship boundaries need to be put to one side as they are neither relevant to, nor anywhere near important as the rape itself.

It's not victim blaming to acknowledge that OP might have done something which her DH would have been uncomfortable with had the rape not actually happened. The posters who addressed this seemed to do so because the OP and her DH seemed to be struggling to separate the two issues, not because they were trying to apportion blame to the OP for the rape.

Accusing people of implying that the OP is a slut, when they've said no such thing is really offensive.

[paperlace]

MorrisZapp you have my support.

You have not victim blamed.

The posters picking apart your words, fabricating your words and attributing values and attitudes to you that you clearly don't hold are actually derailing this 'support' thread more than you are.

And I too would be FURIOUS to be told I was calling another woman a 'slut' when no such thing was uttered and when it is a word most of us would never, ever use.

[MorrisZapp]

I'd be happy for this thread to be locked now. I agree its absolutely horrible. I'm getting really upset and angry now at having my words twisted and misquoted, but the thread isn't about my feelings it's about the OP who will not be back now anyway.

I will alert MNHQ.

[MorrisZapp]

Anybody who knows me from relationships will know I'm forever boring on about sexist language and society asking women to account for men's sexual behaviour. I'm actually quite tedious on the subject.

I loathe and detest words and judgements such as slut, because they have no equivalent for men, and place the weight of judgement on women when it's usually male behaviour that is at least equally in the frame. See my endless posts defending OW from charges of slut, home wrecker, skank, bitch etc.

On that board, I'm considered way too laid back about infidelity, because I think there are shades of grey. But on this thread I'm an embarrassment because I agree with the OP that I wouldn't want my DP to go clubbing alone with a woman he'd just met.

Go figure. And with that I really must be out.