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Original poster

He’ll just have to do without (sex)

123 replies

TeeJay1970 · 23/12/2014 07:31

Went out for a Christmas drink last Friday with a group of 40 something ladies. As the drinks flowed the conversation turned to sex.

One of my friends (48 years old) announced that she was done with and had no plans to have it again. This then begged the question of where this leaves DH (46 years old). Her words where, and I quote, “He’ll just have to do without.” In the following argument amongst the 7 of us two groups emerged. The first agreed with her that if she didn’t want it that was the end for the two of them full stop.

The other group, my group, felt this was just not fair on her DH. Now I fully agree that nobody should have sex if they don’t want to but is it really fair to wake up one day and say to your DH “Darling I’ve been thinking. Last night I decided that you’re never having sex ever again.”?

Can she really expect her marriage to carry on as before (he is a good DH and always has been)? On the other hand can he really expect her to have sex if she doesn’t want to?

One women suggested that she might agree to him having some form of “arrangement” to go elsewhere. Her response was “I’ll cut his balls off!”. Is it OK for her to tell him she wants nothing to do with his balls ever again but demand complete control over them?

I really can’t decide what’s right here.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:

AICM · 24/12/2014 12:57

I think it's possible that your previous experiences may have left you with an outlook that is incompatible with this discussion.

No one is saying women should tolerate being raped, some have suggested that even when a woman's sex drive has left her she could still be able to provided the man who loves her with some element of sexual fulfilment.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 24/12/2014 13:11

Ahh, Bill, unknot your knickers and have a festive with me

JuanDirection · 24/12/2014 13:14

Warysara: JuanDirection: That is a completely stupid comment Noted, thank you. You are describing rape, not consenting to sex even though it perhaps doesn't bring you the pleasure it once did. Well you can call it what you want. The dw wishes not to have sex anymore (for whatever reason). She doesn't enjoy it and doesn't want to do it. The dh will be aware of this. She shouldn't feel she has to open her legs and let him get on with it - it's gross. This isn't some chore that has to be endured - it's supposed to be a mutually enjoyable, loving and happy experience for both parties - there is something wrong in what's happening if that is not the case, whatever you want to call it.

Someone's right to say no is more important than someone else's wish to have sex with them. It's not 50:50, even if you're married, that doesn't change. Nobody has to stay married - you can leave.

AICM I'm not sure that's quite the same is it? If you're 'not totally in the mood', and then, during the course of foreplay you become in the mood and then decide to have sex, that's normal, consenting, enjoyable etc. If, for some reason, you just don't want to ever have sex, and don't like it, but allow yourself to be penetrated until your partner ejaculates into you, even though you hate the experience and are just 'putting up with it' for their sexual gratification - this is a different thing, and it's gross and wrong. I don't think many men would want to do this anyway (I bloody hope)! How could you enjoy it knowing your partner's experience of it is so horrible that they wish they weren't doing it?

AICM · 24/12/2014 13:16

I do agree with the situation you've described.

There are other situations.

JuanDirection · 24/12/2014 13:19

Bognor You're misunderstanding my position on things I think. I have a wonderful and fulfilling sex life, (as does dh) thank you very much! ;) I don't mean to imply that sex for a woman is automatically a violation, not at all!! Your important omission there is about whether the woman wants to have sex or not. If a woman does not want to have sex, but consents anyway (or otherwise it happens) against her wishes, then THAT is what constitutes an internal violation. Obviously this isn't the case if she wants to have sex - but that's not the situation we were talking about.

Lweji · 24/12/2014 13:23

Not totally in the mood, is not the same as not wanting it at all.
Juan was perhaps too strong, but that's basically the gist.
Although someone may not want sex as such, but may enjoy the intimacy and take pleasure in giving pleasure to the other person. But you shouldn't offer yourself for sex if it doesn't make you happy somehow. Not just to keep the other person in the relationship.

LastTangoInBognor · 24/12/2014 14:23

Juan that's fine, I apologise for misunderstanding! Though I do think that there is a lot of middle ground between 'not really wanting to' and 'violating against your wishes'. It's probably worth mentioning that I'm currently posting on a thread where women whose partners aren't putting out are talking about how we deal with that - so I am definitely bringing my own experiences to this conversation!

I do feel that some of your language is a little... dehumanising, maybe, of the male sexual experience? 'until your partner ejaculates into you' etc. I also think that a partner can be uninterested in sex without finding it 'so horrible'. Of course, there are people who DO find it horrible and I would never think they should just 'put up with it' - that would be traumatic and awful. But I don't think that's always automatically the case, and it has seemed a little like that's the angle that you want to focus on. Which, because of my aforementioned issue, I find a little difficult!

Original poster

TeeJay1970 · 24/12/2014 14:32

Last could you post a link to the other thread?

OP posts:

LastTangoInBognor · 24/12/2014 14:50

Sorry, I'm crap with links on my phone but it should be on the front page of relationships and called something about 'sexual compromise'

TheHoneyBadger · 24/12/2014 20:44

plarail - if it's worth divorcing over (not cheap surely) then its worth seeking at least a private consultation over maybe.

i'm totally recovered thankfully it was psychological rather than physical that held me back for a while and in fairness in all that bodging and repairing i think they may have actually managed to accidentally put things back in a better place somehow

i hope you can find a way to access treatment.

warysara · 24/12/2014 22:18

Juan: As you have somewhat jaundiced view of sex itself: How about masturbating him? That isn't violating, but could alleviate the frustration that may build up without sex ..

BertieBotts · 24/12/2014 22:37

How demeaning. Fine if the woman wants to, but IME it kills desire just as much - there's nothing sexy or intimate about a hand job when you're not into it or getting something in return even if the return is not immediate ie you don't feel like sex right know but you know he'll return the favour some other time.

Men aren't some rabid sex machines that need sex otherwise they explode.

I do agree with this though: "I also think that a partner can be uninterested in sex without finding it 'so horrible'. Of course, there are people who DO find it horrible and I would never think they should just 'put up with it' - that would be traumatic and awful. But I don't think that's always automatically the case."

I don't think it's automatically the case but I do think that women are less expected to enjoy sex, more expected to put out whatever and hence the situation where she finds it "horrible" is probably more common than her not. It's not automatic but I think it would be the more likely position, especially if she's put up with that kind of attitude for a long time.

JuanDirection · 24/12/2014 22:56

Yuck. 'How about masturbating him' seriously? How about he does it himfuckingself?! It's not her job to get him off. He can take responsibility for his own sexual self-satisfaction, she doesn't have to be involved in any sex act which she doesn't enjoy. If she wants to do whatever (handjob/ oral/ penetrative sex), fine - they'll do that. However, if she doesn't want to, then NO. It's a whole sentence, no. He can masturbate himself, he doesn't need (or want, hopefully) her to act as what would basically be an unwilling masturbatory aid.

And I think it is violating to take part in a sex act you don't want to be part of. Your local bus stop tramp would probably like you to give him a handjob - are you going to do it? It won't be violating, in your opinion. But surely it would be gross, because you don't want to - it's the same for this woman. She doesn't want to, she doesn't like it, so she's saying NO - that's her right, and she is absolutely entitled to not do whatever she doesn't want to do.

yellowxo · 24/12/2014 23:03

Men generally have higher sex drives than women shes still pretty young, my guess meno pause combined with she doesn't fancy her dh much any more. If George Clooney asked to jump her bones she would!! Women get bored too my oh was a bit boring sometimes I do it just for him but I got him to buy me a hitatchi massager and wow Im not even bothered done in 60 seconds, get your friend to get one it will change her life

Suzannewithaplan · 24/12/2014 23:21

It's possible that she (the friend of the OP) previously found sex less than satisfying.

Add in the slightly less urgent libido which can accompany hormone changes in the late 40's and it just doesnt seem worth getting your kit off for?

HelenaDove · 24/12/2014 23:32

yellow that is a load of sexist crap.

a. stick around a bit longer on this board and you will find many cases where its the other way around where the man has a low or no sex drive and the womans is higher.
b. George Clooney .....ah yes because all women get turned on by who the media tells us to get turned on by and who the media tells us is good looking. Like we cant think for ourselves.

Personally i like my men to look a bit more lived in. There is an actor called Chris Larkin who i quite like In fact he looks a bit like an ex of mine. There is a whole lot more to who someone feels attraction to than who the media tells us to like.

yellowxo · 24/12/2014 23:57

Not really sexist though I said generally not all scientific evidence indicates on average men have higher sex drives than women but that varies.

warysara · 25/12/2014 00:53

Juan: What an angry person you are. People obviously should do what they are comfortable with. But you immediately jump to the 'sexual contact is horrible' stance. I'm sorry you are so bitter.

In a give and take relationship, sexual contact is something that is also a compromise quite a lot of the time. It should feel good to make the other person happy and if you do not want to be 'violated' or 'ejaculated in' (again such angry words) then touching / closeness could be fine.

JuanDirection · 25/12/2014 09:44

WarySara I'm not angry at all, I'm a very happy person - but I am disgusted that in this day and age, some people think that sex is a right for some people and a duty for others - it's neither, it should be a mutually enjoyable thing or don't do it!

I'm not jumping to the 'sex is horrible stance' at all - I like sex and I have a lot of it, but only when I want to and when my sexual partner (if I'm with one) wants to as well. But sex IS horrible if you don't want it, and that is the subject of this thread; this woman feels that sex is horrible (and therefore, as a matter of fact, it IS horrible to her - not everybody likes it - and it's her right to say no. Surely the right to not have sex is recognised these days, and should not be interpreted by any reasonable person as something 'angry', or as anti-sex altogether! It should be normal that if you don't want sex (whatever the reason or the situation) then you have the right to refuse! On the other hand, if you do not choose to accept a sex-free relationship (or any other aspect of any relationship) you are free to leave a partner who has incompatible views on this. What you are not entitled to is sex with someone who doesn't want it.

Lweji · 25/12/2014 10:22

I think it's quite reasonable to get angry at the thought that someone should have sex when they don't want just to keep the other person in the relationship.
Not that it matters anyway, as lots of people cheat in or leave relationships where there is sex.

TheHoneyBadger · 25/12/2014 15:57

is anyone really saying someone should have sex on an occasion where they don't want to?

i think there's a difference between not having sex 'when' you don't want to and deciding one day that you're never going to have sex again but you want to stay married, that you're not going to explore any avenues as to why you feel that way, whether your feelings could change, whether your libido could be improved, whether there are ways to find happy intimacy with your partner etc just nope, i'm done with it and they'll just have to lump it.

finding that a staggeringly selfish stance that seems to show an utter contempt for the relationship and the other in it is entirely different to saying 'she should lie back and think of england it's her duty' - pretending it is the same is straw man nonsense.

happy christmas btw i've snuck away for five minutes and really shouldn't be on here!

Gfplux · 25/12/2014 16:17

I am not joining sides with the recent angry posts but want to go back to the original post.
If this lady wants to change one of the important supports of a marriage that is her choice. However it is niave of her to think there will not be consequences. She may not tell her partner she has withdrawn from this part of their marriage but in time he will notice consciously or sub-consciously. This will then effect his behaviour.
I am often amazed that people don't understan cause and effect.
As an earlier poster said, perhaps the lady in question will be posting here in due course about her "delinquent" husband.

Lweji · 25/12/2014 23:05

Regardless of whether she discussed it with her husband or not, the fact is that she has decided she doesn't want more sex. This is not something you discuss, although you could tell the other person.
We don't know her situation or circumstances, so most posts about how unreasonable she is are mostly speculating. For all we know, he may not want to have sex either.
And it's possible she has gone off him but secretly prefers that he leaves her.
If anything, she may be unreasonable to expect her partner to simply go without, IF he does want sex. We don't know that he does.
But a few earlier pps just went on about how unreasonable she is for deciding not to have sex as a unilateral decision. Of course it has to be unilateral.

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