Can someone be abusive in one relationship but not in another?

[43percentburnt]

My ex was an abusive arse. Typical textbook, he started being violent when I was 18, I can't remember if he was emotionally abusive previously. Told me his ex was psychotic, violent etc - me thinks, with hindsight, he wasn't telling the truth. He was quite a bit older, again I think this is typical.

When I involved the police he told me that they said they would arrest me.

When I tried to leave several years later the nice and nasty cycle would occur. He would shout abuse, stalk me at work, send abusive messages, be threatening.

I fortunately got away and am now having a wonderful life. I logged many incidents with the police over the years. I got the police to log it on the records of the county he lives in and two that he visits because I want his girlfriend to be believed if she ever needs to speak to the police.

But my question is, will he be abusive to her? I know she was previously with an abuser. Ironically my ex told me how he has threatened her ex as he wouldn't stop calling her and he had previously been violent. She is a nice person ( have only met her 4 or 5 times in 10 years but she seems genuine).

Can abusers stop being abusive with no outside help?

And note it was the middle ground and ends up with horrific post not the thinking people can change that I commented on.

Some can usually the ones that accept they have an issue and actively seek help to change

Thank you spero

No need to tell me to fuck off at all... thats bloody abusive. So get right off your high horse there. The question was... can people that have been abusive in one relationship not be in another, I said that yes, it can be the case. I also said if the person was a serial abuser then no. It totally depends. I was talking non extreme. We all have personalities that actually sometimes don't gel with another. We all have relationships where the other isnt nice particularly sometimes. Are they abusive by nature... sometimes not, are they abusive now and again... yes.

I'm with sock on this one.
The OP mentions violent abuse, and many incidents logged with police. Is this what you mean by mediocre, Tinks?
I'm not sure how a scale of domestic abuse would work. I don't see emotional abuse, for example, as necessarily more 'mediocre' than physical or sexual. It can often be worse. In fact I can't find it in me to discuss any abuse as 'mediocre'.

Totally apologise here, just re-read the whole of the OP's post ( I was on my phone and read a few down). NO he will not go on to have a health relationship... He's a violent abuser that will not change.

Once again, I totally apologise for misreading the original post.

A domestic abuse 'scale'? No way. Abuse is abuse. There's no reason to try to 'rate' which is 'worse'. It's all terrible when you're experiencing it. I would never minimize someone else's experience. We all deserve to be treated with respect and consideration.

As far as can an abuser change; you may sponge the spots off a leopard, but it remains a leopard just the same. Yes, counseling can help an abuser not abuse, but the basic personality is still there, it's just being controlled. I think that anyone who gets involved with a known 'former' abuser is taking a chance. I count myself in that number as my DH was formerly EA but has gone through counseling (we both did) about his anger issues. Do I think he's 'changed'? His behaviour has, certainly, and it's going on 15 years.

And no one really knows what goes on behind closed doors. These exes who have formed new non-abusive relationships may no longer be abusing. Or they just may be more careful or be with women who have drastically changed their behaviour to avoid the abuse (and didn't most of us do that at one time or another?). Or perhaps they have 'met their match'. Who really knows?

Oh for fuck sake... I was saying that people can change. Its got nothing to do with meeting a match. You tell me a scenario where leaving a relationship wouldnt be labelled abusive on both parts? Normal people act abusively sometimes. Surely, we all understand real abuse? to scream that at every opportunity belittles the real message.

It would go...

Sorry darling i really dont love you anymore

Oh its ok sweetheart I dont either

They part....

I don't think so. My experience is my Dad.

Mum met him when she was 14, married at 20, had me at 24 and divorced dad at 27. She said he had never been violent until after they married, it got worse and she threw him out when my brother was a baby. He met a woman after the divorce, didn't last long as he was verbally abusive to her. Next partner he married and had a child with. He went on to be emotionally and physically abusive, she threw him out after he had an affair. After divorce number 2 happened, he met another woman and had a baby with her (by now, I'm 15). This is where he met his match - she would beat him as much as he beat her. This relationship was definitely the worst in terms of abuse as they were both at it. Whilst I know he is an absolute twat, I tolerate him. I could not fucking stand that woman though. She is a bitch through and through. When I was pregnant with DS, she said to 'Oh, you must be glad it is a boy, they're better than girls. If I was ever pregnant with a girl, I'd have an abortion'. I didn't have much to do with either of them when the were together and this was actually his longest relationship. They split but that was because of mutual agreement.

He is now in a new relationship and has recently moved in with her. There are no signs yet that I can see but I anticipate it won't be long before he shows his true colours. He has also always tried to paint his exes as 'crazy bitches'. Except my mum because, to his credit, he's never bad mouthed my mum to me.

So no, I don't think he will ever stop abusing women.

I'm glad there are cases where it is taken into consideration, in my personal circumstances it wasn't and I have since met others where they were also told that the abuse was not directly on the child so would not be counted. As with a lot of things in family law it does seem to depend on many factors. My own court cases were over 5 years ago, so hopefully things have indeed moved forward.

Im not sure this thread was about how it's become. The one thing i dislike about mumsnet is that it always ends up with horrific, where a person may just be asking about something mediocre. Maybe Mumsnet would benefit by have some sort of "scale" going on

There seem to be no "middle" ground ever on here. Its a shame

Tinks these are the posts I have taken exception to. Nothing to do with your views on people changing or not. They were really inappropriate posts to make on a thread of this nature and would be on any post about domestic abuse.

I notice that you have apologised for misreading the op and that has changed your opinion about the op's ex changing perhaps it would be adventitious to reconsider the posts I did take issue with and think about the thought process behind them it may help you understand why they prompted a strong reaction

I'm back. Interesting point very early on about the fact abused people are spun the line 'it's only you' ' you make me do it' and here we are talking about it emphasising the point.

Bizarrely I was quite spirited at 18 I did fight back, I called the police the second time it happened. If the law was how it is now I think I gave them enough to arrest without me wanting to press charges, but it was different then.

I do agree that the abuser is actually dependent on their victim. I graduated despite the abuse and got a professional job. I think he has remained bitter towards me as he sees me as being successful, he never tried to have a career but I think he feels he is hard done by.

I rarely speak to him anymore, the last two times he was abusive to me in front of his new girlfriend. Sad really after 10 years. I reported to police on both occasions. Thinking of this makes me think he probably is an arse to her, or maybe she is conditioned from her ex and has dumped a number 10 only to get a number 7 who seems kind in comparison.

At 17 you feel grown up, but you are not. I guess that's why you are so vulnerable.

Ok.. got it.. stop with the making me realise... this man is a hard core abuser.

What are you asking OP, whether you should have a word with her?

43percentburnt

If your ex is being abusive to you in front of his new girlfriend then there is no way he's not being abusive to her too. For a start, displaying that behaviour to you in front of her shows her that he as abusive, She would be shocked if she didn't know he could be like that, but she already knew I'll bet.

Tinks, yes I get your point about people not gelling and therefore being better off apart. But he wouldn't let me leave.

I think a shouty/argue type of relationship probably does mean both can be better complimented by another person.

For anyone reading this that feels life would be harder if they left, I promise you it's better. Very hard to make the move and not go back when you are harrassed and still subject to verbal/mental abuse because you dared to leave. But I have had a great 10 years. I love hearing the key turn in the lock - means my lovely dh is home!

No tinks I was just wondering after watching that panorama programme the other week. I thought how awful it would be to still be with someone abusive as a pensioner. Very sad. Too many people stay for too long, sunken fallacy I guess.

It was verbal abuse in front of her, on the phone, I heard her in the background explaining to someone why he was screaming and swearing down the phone at me!

In your case you know then. you are asking whether to tell the other woman what he's like.... she obviously is sampling it for herself, would she want you to tell her? I personally would. Lots say not to.

I think my ex was abusive to me, in his first marriage, but not to wives 2 or 3. To the extent that when he did eventually get violent with wife 3 and their teenage children, they had him checked out medically and found that he has a brain tumour.

Apparently having such tumour/s could lead to someone becoming violent. His parents told my daughter he might have had it all his life, inferring that's why he tried to kill me.

I think he's a violent man who just happens to have brain tumours now. It wasn't a tumour with its hands round my throat.

I personally think that there are obviously abusive men out there... There are also people that we dont actually get on with, hence the relationship becomes rather abusive on both parts. I also think that there are women that "hope" the man becomes abusive to another partner, hence why wouldnt they been with them...

Ive had a situation lately where the bloke i was with for 3 months was getting quite weird. hes with someone else and become engaged and still trying to message me on anything he can, i blocked on various things. I have now told his fiance what he's like... whether she chooses to acknowledge that or not, its up to her

Tink "There are also people that we dont actually get on with, hence the relationship becomes rather abusive on both parts."

If I'm understanding you correctly, I must disagree. Just because you 'don't get on' with someone doesn't mean the relationship becomes abusive. A spat, fight, tiff, 'not getting on', whatever isn't abusive per se. The majority of those situations are still about two people in equal positions in the relationship just not seeing eye to eye. I'm not saying it's good or that a person should stay in any relationship if they aren't happy or are fighting a lot, just that it's not necessarily abuse per se.

Abuse is about power. Abuse is one partner using words or physical means to make the other feel small, threatened, and worthless. In all abusive situations the abuser puts him-/herself in the position of power and uses the abuse to control the abused person.

A relationship between two people have degrees of this all the time. You do not love anyone "unconditionally" no matter how long you have been together. There are always conditions. The only people you love like that are your children.

The condition of being with another person is whether they are kind to you, respect you and know your differences.

I believe that women have been conditioned to dumb it down and make excuse after excuse for it.

Ok, I will tell you where i get this from... Not wanting to be boring and keeping it simple.

I was with someone for 4 years, always knew somehow it was a rebound for him. He was distant and we argued. He was "dutiful" but not nice to me ever.

I told him to get a divorce.

He got a divorce.

He moved on and is now getting married to someone else after a year of meeting her.

He is absolutely lovely to her.

I think there are times people can have a relationship with an abusive person in which there is no abuse (but probably is still dysfunctional) but I'd see it as an aberration, a diversion from the abusive person's usual pattern.

I have an ex who was an overbearing arse. Many years later his daughter told me I was the only girlfriend she knew of that he didn't hit.

I'm not kidding myself I was so much more marvelous that all his other partners-not at all. It wasn't cleverness or emotional intelligence or being tough that saved me from him. It was simply that for his own reasons he did not proceed to make me his victim. I was in a job that gave me a kind of protection (criminal justice type thing), I've got a close-knit family nearby, I was a different social class, more educated and he was wary of that and I was just, well, lucky. There were more red flags than a Bhutanese festival but I was young and naive and sort of sailed through the whole thing not really realising.

What my ex did do was dump me quickly and abruptly. Clearly, a relationship with me was not going to provide the kind of dominance he was looking for. We stayed friends for a while, until I wised up and I heard stuff about how he treated subsequent partners that I just could not ignore. I could so easily have had the traumas they had.

I wonder this too. My x is with somebody new. Is it possible he might be less focused on getting all of his own needs met at somebody else's expense? is that possible?

It's a fascinating idea.