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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Have this evening found out that h has been lied to me about an investment property which he has bought

92 replies

whatnow2 · 20/12/2014 00:41

which he didn't tell me about at the time.

I found the documents relating to this property along with those of a property I do know he bought (which he was open about) a few months ago, but when I asked him outright if he had bought this shop, he said that he had been planning to but had pulled out. Stupidly I chose to believe him Hmm.

Fast forward a few months and I gather from his movements that he has recently started using the premises. The penny dropped because of how defensive he was about where he was going today, obviously trying to hide what was in the boot of the car (which he was bringing there), and then an outright lie he told at the dinner table tonight. He also got very defensive when I asked him for some details telling me to "stop it" and "occupy myself with something else".

So the penny finally dropped. Those documents were real and he has started using the premises. He also lied the other day when I think he was there setting up (he was gone for hours), telling me he was somewhere else when I rang. Except that I could hear a loud radio in the background and the place he was talking (lying) about is a very quiet yoga school.

So then it took the easiest detective work imaginable to confirm what I thought. I found a business rates document at the top of his pile of paperwork left out Confused. I also did a search on the land registry and sure enough the property does belong to him Shock.

I have started a thread about this on AIBU but I don't think I worded it right. I really wanted, if possible, someone's opinion this evening as I have just found out and am a bit shell shocked.

There is stuff about me that h does not know either, but somehow I think his is worse Sad. I can go into my stuff too but I really wanted an opinion on the above before I divulge what is going to take ages to write down.

Bottom line we obviously don't trust each other at all, but being lied to directly like that (and several times) is ShockShock.

OP posts:
Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 06:28

Have thought of doing this turkey but think it would be a red rag to a bull. Already buying these 2 latest properties must have meant increasing the mortgage considerably and me effectively putting the kibosh (or thinking I had the right to) on that kind of freedom would enrage h.

OP posts:
Aussiemum78 · 21/12/2014 07:08

So he's enraged that his ex wife wasn't thrown away with no money?

And he expects you to have nothing if you divorce?

Oh, I forgot, he will want you to have nothing and now will probably want your sisters flat too. Maybe he will be generous and share his debts. Because he's the man - entitled and financially abusive.

My friend divorced a guy like this. She literally got nothing except debt, had her car repossessed and has three kids to support (he pays nothing).

Aussiemum78 · 21/12/2014 07:09

Google financial abuse!

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 07:48

He has some equity not only debt. I think he knows what I would be entitled to in a divorce and is worried about that (and may be why he hasn't told me about the shop).

OP posts:
bodumfan · 21/12/2014 08:14

blimey whatnow I think you're absolutely right to not tell him about your half-share in your sister's flat. Of course it's not ideal for you both to be hiding things from each other but your half-share is a protective measure. He set the tone by buying all these properties in his name only, refusing to make a will or take out life insurance. A married woman with 3 young children feels extremely vulnerable in that kind of situation.

You've asked him to ensure you're on the deeds to the family home several times and he has refused (not that I think it matters legally if you were to divorce).

"....did go and see a counsellor about 2 years ago but h stopped coming after about 5 sessions. H can be critical, short tempered and rude. He is also prone to not speaking for ages after an argument" Google emotional abuse.

Kitsmummy · 21/12/2014 08:25

Oh my goodness, you do realise this is not a marriage? Secrets, lies, no-one wants to put their spouse in their will, you sound like you both hate each other, I think you really need to get out of this. With all that property it sounds like you should be ok in a divorce, good luck

Ps I do know how hard it is to actually decide to split a family up, but honestly it sounds like it's for the best in this situation

Kitsmummy · 21/12/2014 08:27

also I would suggest doing lots of digging, lots of photocopying and keep all the docs in a safe place out of the home before (if) you do leave

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 08:41

It's not that I don't want to put him in the will but that between the 3 dc it will be a relatively small amount of money each (it could go towards deposits on their future houses depending on what housing is like when they are adults) and I would like to have some control over that money going directly to them rather than into h's bigger pot (which is what would happen if i didn't make a will) which I can't make head nor tail of. Would also be worried that he might lose the money in a failed business venture. I feel that it's my parents' hard earned cash and would be my and their gift to my children.

I don't know if h has a will or not but he seems to be generally averse to them.

I know it sounds awful kitsmummy. I quite often think h does not like me and it makes me anxious. Not sure how I feel about him. When he's kind I feel happy where I am. When he is rude and uncommunicative, less so. He also never touches me which is a big issue for me.

He set the tone by buying all these properties in his name only, refusing to make a will or take out life insurance. A married woman with 3 young children feels extremely vulnerable in that kind of situation. It's exactly this bodum.

OP posts:
CogitOIOIO · 21/12/2014 08:42

Whatever the rights and wrongs of who is hiding what and why, it's clear that neither of you trust the other. His mistrust also appears to be bundled up with quite a lot of arrogance and contempt which sounds seriously unpleasant and dismissive. That's a really unhealthy relationship

lastnightiwenttomanderley · 21/12/2014 08:49

OP I think we've established that this is not a relationship... I really feel for you.

As a PP has alluded to though, I would speak to a solicitor asap about protecting your share of your sister's flat. Whilst he may have some equity, this may not be as much as you think and there is a risk that he could come after your sisters place should you split up.

Also, another PP pollyindia I think, reminded me of something else. In his speculate to accumulate mission, could he have ever remortgage the house you live in to raise deposits? Whilst it may be in his name, my understanding is that he would need to seek approval of anyone over 18 resident at the property. If he has remortgaged and not told you then he will have either lied and said he is the only over 18 or forged your signature.

Please take care OP and look after yourself.

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 08:49

And he has never allowed me to communicate that anxiety or seemed to understand it.

Re. financial abuse aussiesmum, on a day to day basis h is fine with money. As regards the bigger picture I think there are issues which are probably defensive on his part. He is also really fed up with how hard he has to work. I think there is no place for this kind of defensiveness in a marriage. I know it isn't really a marriage. Really h is something of a lone ranger.

OP posts:
lastnightiwenttomanderley · 21/12/2014 08:50

Equity in his properties, that is!

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 08:52

Missed your posts lastnight and cogito. Will answer them in a while from the pc as have been doing all this with one thumb on the mobile.

OP posts:
CogitOIOIO · 21/12/2014 08:53

'something of a lone ranger'

Let's call a spade a spade.... he's 'selfish'.

Inertia · 21/12/2014 08:54

Might be worth looking into whether you can take out a life insurance policy on his life, so the children are provided for in the event of his death.

You could also make a will putting your assets into trust for the children in the event of your death.

I think you need advice from a specialist lawyer, to be honest.

Kitsmummy · 21/12/2014 09:17

Whatnow - where you write about him not liking you but you could be happy when he's nice and, weirdly, the bit about him not touching you, I could have written that myself. I was in a marriage exactly like that, exactly. Seven long years and I am now recently divorced, settled in my new house with the kids and life is good Smile.

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 11:25

I asked h about the shop this morning. He says he didn't say / said he was trying to pull out at the time because he was in fact trying to pull out. He wasn't able to however so it is his at the moment but he is going to sell it as he does not want to run a shop there (which is what he was considering). He apparently did not go and make mattresses the other day and has not done any work there. Based on other things I am not sure if this is true.

He was not terribly conciliatory and is clearly floundering because he had been considering running a shop there but says he does not have the energy. He was sarcastic or slighly mocking during part of the conversation which I think is not a great indicator, but for now I feel happier that I have brought it up.

When I first said I thought the shop was his he said "really" sarcastically as if he was going to deny it. There was then a long long silence (we were lying in bed half asleep) and he then explained about the wanting to run a shop
shop but now thinking that it is a bad idea scenario... He was mocking when I said that I did think he had done some work there (oh yes and I've also done... he said - playing on my insecurity I suppose). I asked about the basement and he said "I'm sure you know" - sarcastically. I said I had driven past it yesterday to have a look. He also said he was sure I knew about the cafe next door to it being for rent, as if I am some kind of sleuth.

I asked if the dc and I could come and see it and he said why and no. I said to give him ideas etc... and he said all the ideas would involve him working himself to the bone. He does work very hard.

He is paying rates and a mortgage on the property so I think the whole thing sounds like it wasn't a good idea.

I asked how he was going to sell it - at auction or what and he asked me why I was interrogating him. I think he sees his business as impacting only him but doesn't realise that there are other people involved. I was thinking that I should offer to work with him in any shop that he opens but don't think we would work well together because he gets abrasive about how he thinks things should be.

We are downstairs now and he is very distant and communicating mainly with the kids - as usual.

lastnight I think he must have re-mortgaged our family home. Years ago I signed a document giving him the right to do things like this or the bank the right - some such thing - which doesn't affect my marital right to half of it.

Yes cogito there is contempt there. I don't know what to do about it. I think that if I become super independent of him and less needy he will be more willing to open up, but I am finding the becoming less needy part hard.

He knows that I do things like write here and talk to friends and this has made him wary.

It's strange the "selfish" part because in one way it's true. On the other hand, however, he works very hard to provide for us.

Anyway, for now I am glad that I have spoken about it as well as my half of my sister's flat. I can concentrate on christmas and after that on finding work which means I have other things to think about other than my difficult relationship with h.

I am glad you are happy kitsmummy. Was divorcing very difficult to go through? I really don't think I have the strength to do it, as well as thinking that my last chance to make things work is to work hard on myself taking my focus off h.

OP posts:
Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 11:28

Am a little bothered about his saying he did not make mattresses in the shop because I really think he did but maybe I am wrong Sad.

OP posts:
Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 11:29

I think he sees me on the same level as he sees the dc. A dependent whom he doesn't have to share (information wise) everything with.

OP posts:
LittleDonkeyLeftie · 21/12/2014 11:30

LTB

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 11:33

And I think that it is a little weird that he is now the one not talking to me (only answering if I ask him stuff very directly).

OP posts:
CogitOIOIO · 21/12/2014 11:33

If he works hard it doesn't mean he's enetiled to mock you, treat you with contempt, hide things or tell lies. Marriage is meant to be an equal partnership but he's running it like it's a one man band with a wife and kids as inconvenient hangers on. His whole attitude stinks.

I'm seriously alarmed that you signed something about your house and don't seem to know what it entitles him to do. When dealing with a snake, leave nothing to chance or you'll end up in serious trouble.

DoesntLeftoverTurkeySoupDragOn · 21/12/2014 11:34

Yesterday morning you said Have told h most of what was my lie by omission Have you told him the rest or are you still keeping secrets too?

Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 11:39

Well I haven't told him about the impending will but that is a seriously difficult thing to do. I cannot explain to what an extent we have difficulty talking about things without getting upset, misinterpreting and getting angry (in his case).

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Original poster
whatnow2 · 21/12/2014 11:40

Besides which at this point I have no idea what other things I may not know about him iyswim.

OP posts: