"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks Roland83 and flippinada. I'm hoping to pick up some tips on here. It feels a bit strange as my parents aren't horrible people but they are certainly controlling and manipulative. The slightest disagreement (about MY life) and they blow up. I just don't understand why they do it and I'm so tired of it.

Busy,

My tips to you - raise your already too low boundaries. Remain unavailable to them and do not see or visit them. Keep them away from your DD; it will do her no favours at all to see you as her mother be so downtrodden by her parents. All phone calls if made must be kept short and no personal information should be given by you to them. Consider now seeing a counsellor or therapist to talk about your controlling parents; you need to find someone who a) fits in with your approach and b) has no bias about keeping families together despite mistreatment.

Your parents do not have your best interests at heart at all (only theirs); if they did they would not be acting as they do. They do this because they can and this is all they know; their own families likely did the self same behaviours to them when they were children. Its in their interests to keep you so tied to them, they want to keep this dynamic going. Their own childhoods were likely to have been emotionally abusive also. Its still no justification however, for how they act now.

Do read the book I wrote of in your other thread. That explains more .

Controlling behaviour as you well know is infact abusive behaviour.

Hi Attila, thanks for taking the time to reply. I will check out the book. I'm not sure I can do as you suggest. They are very close with DD and I worry it would damage her if she didn't see them anymore. Also, if I were to stop speaking to them that would leave a big void in my own life. As a single parent sometimes I feel like I don't have anough people to share my life with. I have friends but there's certain things family are interested in that friends aren't.

Can anyone advise me on this email I got from my mum yesterday. It follows my decision not to go back to my hometown 150 miles away for the day to have lunch with her and my grandma. On Mother's Day I was passively blamed for my sister forgetting Mother Day because I "usually remind her", and as I'm not quite speaking to my sister due to her crap attitute towards me. So when I stood up for myself I got a load of rubbish back from my mum, made to feel like it was all my fault, and then she hung up on me.

I'm not explaining it very well at all.. I haven't spoke to her since that day, there was no apology, nothing. We fell out recently before and I tried to talk to her about the issues I had from my childhood and more recent, but it was dismissed as "I can't do anything about it now can I?".

Can anyone read it and let me know what you think?

*I did text you a message but not sure if you received it as it's on my other phone.

Just wanted to say that we will be at the (pub) lounge area at 12pm tomorrow (sat)

I had hoped that you would have had time to rethink about coming down.

Grandma told me she had been in touch and that she thinks you will not be coming?
We are obviously very disappointed and I/We hope you will come?

I am very confused about this situation and the severity of your decision not to come.
We have in the past spoken of having disagreements and how upsetting we both feel at such times, and that we are lucky to have such a close relationship that this is very unlikely to happen to us.

If you won't talk to me I can't make you. But leaving things like this is very destructive and certainly does not move us forward to were we should be.

I love you very much and this is so upsetting....I'm sure your not happy either.

Please reconsider....*

Bold fail. Hope you can work that out.

The thing is, I just don't want to speak to her or see her at the moment. I feel like I'm at breaking point emotionally and just want to be left alone.

So basically, putting all the blame on you for the "disagreement", then.

"I love you very much" - but not enough to apologise for upsetting you

I would ignore the email, or send a very short and neutral reply to say "I won't be coming and would appreciate if you don't contact me until I'm ready to speak with you."

I think it's ok just to ignore that. What a ridiculous fuss about nothing (by your mum, not you). If you feel you must reply, you could say something like "I did receive your message. I have made my decision and won't discuss it further."

Oh thank you... Every time this happens, which is a lot more often nowdays, I get so torn between what I want and what is expected of me.

I felt the email was cold, with no emotion or feeling..

I was out food shopping last night and it popped up on my phone and I'm so sick of the negativity all the time.

Thank you so much for the replies.

A ridiculous fuss about nothing.. seems to be the story of my life at the moment.

Nothing has really changed here Roland; your mother point still blank refuses to apologise or take any responsibility for her actions. Grandma is also being used by her to guilt you as well. This is typical toxic parent speak; there is nothing of any substance behind it.

I would ignore this e-mail and now block her from all means of communicating with you. Same with your landline and mobile phone. Any further communication from you simply gives her more opportunity to lob more emotional ammo in your direction.

Detach and ignore her game playing.

I would just reply saying that you've already explained you won't be joining them for lunch. I have made other plans now, etc. She does seem to be dragging it out!

in haste - agreed roland. Could phrase it a bit like this:

"I won't be coming. Please respect me enough to not contact me until I am ready".

Expectation is an incredibly powerful force - I'm amazed by how much people do when it is expected of them, for better or worse. Hold strong. You are right to plant your feet in your own place and to stand strong there for as long as you need.

Welcome busy

Thank you Meerka

Thank you for the support, it's a welcome relief to be heard and not to be dismissed as being silly or emotional.

She is staying with Grandma this week whilst she is visiting and I've had the longest texts from Grandma, obviously either not from her, or like someone has told her what to say.

Grandma is stuck in the middle, I've always messaged her back and said don't worry and that I Love her, but I've not gone into detail as I don't want to involve her. Plus, it very difficult to pin point the facts to anyone who doesn't understand this dynamic.

Yes, she does refuse to take responsibility for her actions, past and present.

Hello all, did you enjoy the eclipse yesterday?

Well I'm feeling pretty shitty, I have to say, and I'm going to ramble on so forgive me.

MY beautiful son has recently been diagnosed with PTSD and a general anxiety disorder. He is 18. The GP (and I) feel that this is from my abusive ex husband who we escaped from 8/9 years ago. He was an animal, verbally and emotionally abused my children, drummed into them that they were useless, disgusting etc. He physically, emotionally and sexually abused me - he was the devil in disguise. Whereas my daughter was able, even at a young age, to stand up to him even though it landed her in more crap, my son internalised it and now, sadly, it is coming out. He has been self harming; his GP is wonderful and has him on meds and is referring him for counselling and CBT. I am beside myself with worry and guilt - worry that he will go so far down into that black hole that he can't get out, and guilt because I married such an evil man.

We escaped. We hid. We stayed under the radar. We were homeless. We went into a women's refuge. And we got back on our feet again and rebuilt our lives.

But where is my mother??? Wallowing in her own cesspit of pity and self entitlement. I've not heard from her for 2 weeks now, but my oldest daughter text her yesterday to tell her that my grandson's birthday party details have changed - she also told her that we (my son and I) have been going through a very rough time. What did she reply? That she wanted an up to date photo of my grandson! My daughter sent her one and asked that she didn't show it to anyone else (meaning my nasty toxic brother who I am NC with) and she replied that she'll show it to anyone she wants to!! My daughter is furious and will never send her another photo. I hate her. I can only say this here, to you, because you will all understand. I feel no love for her, certainly no respect or admiration. And since the hospital incident where she watched the woman die I cannot feel anything but a hardening of my heart.

She has consistently ignored anything to do with me lately. My own health problems - ignored. My son's mental health problems - ignored. Financial worries - ignore. Incidentally she doesn't 'believe' in mental health problems, despite her being the most fucked up woman I have ever known.

I know it is all going to come to a head. I can feel years of resentment building up and, like my son, it has to come out sooner or later. She brings nothing to my life, no support, no warmth, no humour, no friendship...I have nothing to lose because it was never there in the first place.

Sorry for the rant.

x

Roland hello and welcome to the nicest board you will ever be on! You will never be dismissed as silly or emotional on here. It is so validating being able to 'tell it like it is'. You will be amazed at the similarities between the parents who are discussed on here - you're not alone, believe me!

Also welcome busy x

Thanks Vivvyen,

I'm so sorry you and your children are going through such an awful time. Your mum sounds absolutely horrible, and she doesn't seem to care who knows it.

I hope you son gets the help he needs, he sounds similar to me, in that he buried the hurt and anger and now it's coming out.

x

Hi Vivvyen nice to 'meet' you :). I did enjoy the eclipse yesterday - I found it oddly moving and wonder if others feel the same?

I am so sorry to read you are having such a terrible time. Do you have any RL support?

From what I've read of your Mum she sounds absolutely monstrous (I saw your earlier post about the hospital incident) - please don't apologise for ranting. Neither am I surprised to read that it's all about her...it seems to be a common theme with these types. Obviously I'm not a qualified MHP (so feel free to take this with a massive pinch of salt) but she sounds sociopathic. How horrible for you.

I can very much relate to what you say about your son turning inwards on himself, having been on the receiving end of similar abuse. I do hope he, and you can find some peace. Glad his GP is on the case and he is getting therapy and meds.

Finally, I know what you mean about how nice it is to have somewhere that you can tell it like is and you will be believed.

Have some . I'm enjoying handing them out to people, it feels nice :).

Hello all...returning to the thread after quite a while...a brief update...LC has been going well...some minor skirmishes but on the whole. I ve had far better boundaries and control of the contact. However....have just had a flying monkey episode that sees me reaching for this thread again!
I've given one clear response to it...and will not be responding further or engaging further...I'm now also considering NC now as a result...but.....I just want your collective take on this one point 'they' are collectively beating me with just now...they refuse to let me go...they refuse to acknowledge there is anything wrong with our dynamic...they are in conscious and deliberate denial about some stuff and subconscious denial about other stuff...
They and their most recent flying monkey have shone a light on a chink in my armour...because they continue to refuse to acknowledge my desire to be let go of, refuse to hear or acknowledge me or my feelings, maintain I am wrong and should just toe the line because we are 'family'...because their denial is so total and so persistently applied, it is hard not to question myself - they tell me so vehemently that I am wrong...a nagging voice says maybe I am...??
I know I'm not...I know I have the right as an adult to choose who I have imy life...that family don't have an incontrovertible right to you as a person if that's not what you choose...but why do they persist so heavily that they are right and I am wrong and I must stay chained to them forever??
They need the control of me to maintain their own denial of dysfunction...am I right??

busy I posted on your thread. sorry for delay, v busy atm.

vivvyen I am so sorry for your son and for the intense unpleasantness you've survived in the past. I really hope you can access some good care and help for him. Be gentle on yourself too; this must be so so hard.

About your mother, if it needs saying - Im pretty sure everyone on the Stately HOmes completely understands that you have nothing left to give your mother. She is incredibly self centred and uncaring. You can't healthily keep giving to someone like that. You are more than justified in stepping back a long, long way.

They have returned to their age-old technique of exerting so much pressure on me (when they know full well I am under tremendous pressure as it is), but this time, because I really am under massive strain elsewhere in life, I think I might actually crack.
They want that though, don't they? For reasons known only to them, they want to break me.
Why do people do this to people they profess to love?
This is not my idea of love. Fortunately I've managed to get away from this dysfunction sufficiently to finally experience real genuinely healthy love with healthy people and non-toxic boundaries (DH and DCs) so I know that this twisted version is not love.
I don't love them anymore. I did, because I was a child and young adult conditioned to love even abusive people.
Not any more.
I do not love them.
I do not want them in my life.
I'm allowed to feel like that, aren't I? They are telling me that I am still wrong...wrong to pull away, wrong about what happened, wrong wrong wrong.
Sorry, just posting to get my thoughts out and stop the manipulative tossers continuing to ruin my now healthy life without them.

Yes you really are allowed to feel like that.

Some people use the word 'love' in a way that actually means 'control'. Not genuine, wanting-the-best-for-the-other-person, wanting them to grow healthily.

"love" means different things to different people. Unpleasantly controlling and manipulative people use it as a tool for their own control. Not real love at it's best, which is there to (in order) nurture, teach, encourage, support and set free another person.

If you're going to crack, make that the sort of cracking that lets you drop people who have a destructive effect into a nice big ravine and then walk away.

Haven't been on here for a long time, as since Dh went non contact things have been so much better, even Christmas went well for the 1st time in 8 years.

But things seem to be going backwards again, and by that i mean Dh behaviour, especially towards my oldest child from a previous relationship.

He has stopped taking care of his personal hygiene again, for example only shaving once or twice a week and bathing only once a week if i am lucky. Then he feels this massive need to ask if he is loved (by me) and then precedes to say i don't come on to him enough. Who wants to partake in making love, when someone is unclean ?

Then the separate problems are constantly flying of the handle at something i have said which really is here nor there. Not hitting or anything but shouting and storming off.
He is pretty much the same with my oldest dc, he keeps making points at her or telling her off for watching something on youtube and disecting everything she does.
This is becoming very tiresome and if i choose to stick up for her, again he storms of after swearing and shouting at me.

My kids come first and i feel that he is slowly becoming like his toxic father, thing is i am not like his mother, i will not watch my children suffer this much longer and i am fed up with treading on eggshells around my home.

I am wondering whether he is in contact behind my back again as his behaviour is very simipar to what was experienced when we were all still in contact.

Can any of you help in finding a way to discuss this and get to the bottom of this, before our relationship is over for good?
How can i make him see he is turning into the very person he is scared of, therefore giving his children the very fate he endured?

Thank you meerka...takes deep breath and heads towards the ravine to drop the toxicity....