"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

"it sounds like you're moving AWAY from child mode and into adult mode. An adult who demands respectful treatment and who doesn't take any shit. Which is going to go down like a lead balloon with your mum, sadly."

Totally. Very well explained.

agreed with the others, roland. it's not childish to stand up to someone and expect reasonable treatment. Especially if you can do it in a calm and controlled way. If you are able to mentally step back and see them as a stranger or as a business client, that helps. It really does help at the head level, even though a part of you still feels like a child.

Thank you everyone.. it's just so new to me, until about 6 months ago I never really realised what I now know to be true.

My sister has a very thick skin and a 'don't give a shit' attitude, so she very rarely really takes any notice and any manipulation or emotional outburst from my mum is not really taken on board by my sister. I've always wishes I could be more like that, although that is the only quality in my sister I am envious of, mostly she's also rude to me and belittles my feelings.

This all started a few months ago, she moved abroad nearly 2 years ago and has gradually been getting more and more unhappy with her life and husband, and organising lots of visits for a few days at a time. It really doesn't sound a lot, but I feel used.. she is only doing it for her own selfish reasons and doesn't care that I'm currently the busiest I've ever been with my business and I don't want these visits. Myself and my partner are very introvert and we like our routine and hate planning ahead like that, we really stress over it.. rightly or wrongly, that is how we feel.

When I expressed this to mum is the kindest way I could, all hell broke loose, I had crying on the phone, she went and told my Grandma and Sister, so I had them texting me saying mum was heartbroken etc etc..

It's only recently I've realised I'm not responsible for her happiness, it was making me unhappy and me actually telling her was the start of what seems to be the unravelling of a very bitter and unhappy person.

I no longer feel a huge rush of guilt that I did a few months back, I feel angry and resentful of her putting men before me when I was a child, and making out that I was sensitive or emotional.. Well, funnily enough everyone else outside of my family says how strong and funny I am. My best friend and partner praise me for various things like my work or say I'm funny and intelligent. I never hear that from my family..

Thank you so much for the replies, it really does mean to world to me.

Pocket saviour - yes, my mum is the same, she gets a bit angry at first but then immediately into the sobbing routine. It gets a little tiresome when all I was is a conversation about the fact that I'm not actually wrong here.. but no, that would mean she has to emotionally engage with me and she can't bear that.

Emotionally unavailable has been the story of my life, with my mum, dad and sister. It's quite upsetting looking back really, but at least I have supportive people I can turn to now.

Vyvvian, I'm so shocked at the poor woman dying in hospital. Awful.

Hi everyone..I've lurked on these threads for an age (years really) and never got up the courage to post as there are some shocking stories on here and, well, I felt like a bit of a fraud.

After much thought I posted a thread earlier today and someone said this was a good place to talk about things. I'll put up a link to thread rather than go in detail in this post but in a nutshell it's about my abusive stepmum and enabling/abusive dad.

was this abuse?

While I'm here for all of you. Or , or if you prefer it.

Yes, it was abuse. I'm so sorry. It sounds awful.

Hi Ada, I read your other thread. Yes that was a very abusive situation, I feel so sorry for you and your little sis to be dealing with such a vicious woman. Your dad is really pathetic, sorry. I think you should ask yourself what positive things you get out of being in contact with him. Because you certainly owe him NOTHING.

Thank you .

Yes it was awful. when I think back to that period, I can't remember much and I think it's because I must have blocked a lot of it out. I'm a bit scared to go digging around because of what it might drag up - not sure if that makes sense.

I have asked myself that question as well pocketsaviour, why do I see him. I don't know the answer to be honest.

One thing I do recall is how awful special occasions were. One Christmas, me and my sister had a pile of measly pound shop style gifts while my step sibs opened what seemed like a never ending pile of lovely gifts. Of course our step sibs could do no wrong and got preferential treatment while me and my sister were hopeless, stupid, lazy etc.

Another thing I have just remembered is that my Stepmum used to work in a caring profession. Looking after learning disabled children.

When I look back at how my Dad behaved yes, I think he was pathetic and weak. I think he knew what was going on but turned a blind eye because it suited him.

Another memory which has just popped into my head is that my Stepmum never lost an opportunity to have a go at my mum. She and my Dad used to do that together.

I'm posting here for the first time - nc as I'm too identifiable under my usual name. I knew there were some odd dynamics in my family but it's recently got worse and this thread has been an eye opener. A lot resonates.

I'm the odd one out in my family. Lots of friends, popular at work but my own family don't seem to have a good word to say about me. I'm selfish, secretive, greedy and put them last. They say this regularly, discuss me behind my back but never have anything specific to back up what they say. They run through the same list of criticisms about me and my home whenever I see them. I'm apparently different to them and always have been. I set the dynamic myself as a child, according to them. I was too independent despite being a straight a student who never got in any trouble.

I've been through some tough life situations in the past few years and have come out stronger. I'm positive, hard working, try to be kind, feel bad when I'm grumpy but I just don't know how to change this awful dynamic with my family. I hold them at arms length for self preservation but it's very upsetting as it's not the relationship I'd ever want and I really don't like the person I am around them. I'm not myself. I don't have a single ally as my sibling is golden child and the family unit is small.

Would really appreciate any advice on how to deal with them. I'm at the end of my tether with it. My friends don't recognise the person they're describing and neither do I. Fortunately the relationship I have with my own dcs is very different.

I'm the odd one out in my family. Lots of friends, popular at work but my own family don't seem to have a good word to say about me

^Indigorachel this is me too, although it's only become apparent to me recently, but it's bringing up a lot of childhood hurt that I guess I buried until realising what my family seems to think of me.

My best friend and my boyfriend of 6 years think I'm amazing, I've had loads of friends in the past and been very popular with friends and work collegues.. but my family make out that I'm a hopeless loner, unsociable and wasting my life by working too much. The truth is I'm self employed, working a lot of hours to save for my first house and loving life in general and am very successful in my work and got a 1st Class degree 2 years ago. None of what they say makes sense at all.

Anyhow, sorry to say I have no words of wisdom. I've been standing up for myself a lot recently and this has gone down very badly. I've cancelled a visit to see my mum this weekend as I'm putting myself first for once after she was rude to me on the phone the other day. I stood up to my sister too and got a half arsed apology which still ended up blaming me, unbelievable, so I've not really spoke to her either.

I've been labelled as sensitive, emotional, full of hurt and anger... it's getting so stupid.

Hopefully we can all find a way to cope.

Roland, I really sympathise. I'm labelled touchy and over sensitive too. Once I was told I was an emotional blackmailer as a particularly vicious verbal attack at a really low point in my life made me cry. I'm really not! I can take all sorts of feedback as long as it's fair. I can laugh at myself and frequently do.

It's as if the family "truth" of the inconsiderate, ungrateful me is so ingrained, it's somehow become fact. It's just not a truth anyone outside the family recognises and it makes me doubt my own self awareness. Basically my family are saying they know the real me but nobody else sees that.

Tiny incidents of me being thoughtless or negligent (a b day card getting lost in the post) are blown up and distorted so that they define me rather than the thousands of other positive situations. I'm really guarded and careful what I say all the time. I feel I'm not able to make any mistakes, even tiny ones, without them being held against me for future evidence.

flippinada I don't know if it was abuse or not. But it was mean, it was horrible and it's absolutely no surprise that you have low self esteem and struggle at times.

My background family(s) is/are complicated but my father and stepmother in my mid-late teens were much the same. She was one hell of a bitch although more subtle than your stepmother and my father never ... once ... stood up for me. His weakness in particular, and the vested interest he has in thinking badly of me (to stay on her right side) really fucking hurts, even now.

You can know it's spinelessness but it doesn't help when the person who should be standing up for you and helping you and protecting you just crumbles and does ... nothing. Or goes along with it.

It's shit.

--

indigo you ask how to deal with your family. Sadly I don't think that it's going to be possible. From the sound of it, they have a fixed idea of what you are like and they will not change. They may not actually want to think of you better than they do. In unhealthy families quite often all the 'bad' traits are put onto one person so that everyone else can feel they are 'good'. Small traits are magnified into massive ones, or plain imagined in the first place on the basis of small incidents.

The thing is, the scapegoat comes to believe everything that is said of them... and sometimes actually starts to act that way. Though it's clear you havent.

Becuase you say your own family and your friends and colleagues don't recognise your birth family's description of you, it's almost certainly their distorted perceptions of you that's the real problem. not you. (course, you're left with actually handling the results of that problem :s )

I ~may~ be reading my own situation into yours, but equally possibly not. The birthday card lost in the post sounds so familiar. or email not working. These are things you can't bloody help, but somehow it's a really good excuse to lay the blame on you isnt it? well it's not your fault.

If two or three trusted friends/your partner who know you really well say that you're not like your birth-family thinks, then it's not you. it's them.

Meerka thank you. I agree, it's really painful. I think, in truth, my Dad regarded us an inconvenience.

He had a low opinion of women generally and boy did he let us know it.

He would frequently comment on my appearance in a derogatory way as well once I began developing. Looking back it was really inappropriate and nasty. For example, one occasion I remember clearly I was excited about something (can't remember what) and jumped up and down - would have been about 12/13?

He said in front of my sis and step siblings 'look at that, like two puppies fighting ha ha ha' . I was so ashamed and mortified but looking back I am furious. What a horrible thing to say to your own daughter.

ewwww ... creepy as hell too. Like you say, what an awful thing to say to your daughter :(

I was an inconvenience too in my teen years. A big one and boy did they ever let me know. It still haunts me, the feeling of being actively unwanted, and really gets in the way of friendships. Sigh.

Yes it is. You'll not be surprised to hear there were other, equally bad comments.

I'm really sorry you went through that too. It's horrible isn't it. The calculated, dismissive cruelty of it. Having my DS has bought home to me just how bad it was.

yes ... I find it hard to trust my husband too. If anything should happen to me I'm so afraid that any future wife would do the same and he'll not stand up for the kids. It's probably very unfair to him but I can't have much faith. Once it's happened to you, you loose trust.

I totally understand that. I'm not sure if it's the done thing on here but what the heck, have some .

I know logically there are nice men out there but deep down is a different matter..I feel a lot of damage has been done. All the relationships I've had have been disastrous and frankly I think I'm better off on my own.

DS has a stepmum now. He seems to be very fond of her but I'm on 'red alert' for any signs...I haven't noticed anything yet.

Thank you meerka. Having a low day today (unusual for me) where I'm really doubting myself. I'm wondering if maybe I have some personality condition and haven't realised! Maybe it's me.

Anyway, seeing some very old friends later which should help me get a grip.

I'm so sorry for all of you who've carried these things into later life. It seems an especially cruel twist that childhood issues can affect things in adulthood. To you all.

Indigio, I think PP are right. If everyone else (partner/friends/colleagues) is saying positive things about you and your family isn't then they are right and your family is wrong. I admire your strength of character.

I agree that in a dysfunctional family situation we get put into roles. I was labelled awkward and difficult throughout my teenage years. I wasn't, but I was very unhappy. Looking back with the perspective of adulthood it's not really surprising, given what was happening.

I understand the doubting yourself. I think when you have been brought up always to put someone else first then you really struggle with confidence and so on because of that over arching sense of being responsible for everything. You put the other person first so you become responsible for them and so that permeates into feeling responsible for everything. So you get that it must be me feeling.
Was chatting to a friend on whatsapp the other day, wishing her luck for a promotion and she said to me "It's truly great to have a friend like you and I don't say it often enough". It was lovely and made me think how differently other people in my life see me.
It can be so hard to see past what the narc says about you. But you can pretty much guarantee that it's them, not you.

Hi, this is the first time I've posted on here. Not sure if I really belong here but thought I'd say hi anyway. I have quite controlling parents and struggling to deal with them. They mean well, I think.

Here's my original post
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2336376-Need-to-establish-a-more-adult-adult-relationship-with-my-parents?msgid=53267192#53267192

Thanks for reading :)

Hey Busy, welcome!

I hope you get some useful advice on here and some support to help you manage your parents.

Welcome Busy. I have just poked my toe in recently after lurking for ages and am so pleased I did. I've only just started talking about things which I've kept buried for years.

From reading your thread I'd say your parents sound controlling and manipulative...I hope you find this thread helpful and supportive :).