"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thinking of everyone with toxic families and wishing you a Christmas that holds pleasure as well as sadness

Hi everyone I've been lurking for some time on this thread i still don't feel ready to post as after 40years of feeling worthless the penny has just drooped that I have narc mother.
I will post more after Christmas as i try it make it a great day for my dh and ds. Can I just ask if your father stands by and watches his kids being treated like me and my Db were doea that make him just as bad?

Some people will say it makes them just as bad. I don't think it makes them as bad but the point comes that if bad things are going on and someone who is also there doesn't try to stop them, then they become at fault. Deeply at fault sometimes.

If they've tried to stop them and can't and also become a victim then it's very very sad. If they don't even try then they are pathetically weak.

I think my dad would of tried to stop it , my mum treats him really terribly as well I haven't went nc because of him . But he even seams to be getting drawn into her manipulation if my mum has phoned me and I don't tell her every detail that I've done I get a text from my dad saying I've hurt her feelings. I really don't expect this from him this is a recent thing he's started doing this year , I really thought he knew how awful she treats me

gingy I'm new to this thread but my father won't do anything when my mother criticises. She has fallen out with a lot of his family too. He says 'she's sick' 'it's not that bad surely' and one time 'we would die for you, is tis how you thank us' so he won't acknowledge it. Slowly I am letting him know exactly what my mother is doing.

I think that in the end people get so beaten down that they crumble and go along with the dominant person's world view. Usually over some years. It's why you have to get out early.

I hope you all have a happy and peaceful Christmas and get through the day happily

I had a mini breakdown last night. DP fell for her lovely little old lady shite so I'm hoping a bath and a chill now before the onslaught happens! I can do this!

Thankfully we get to pretty much ignore Christmas, and DS has gone to play at my MiL's for a few hours so we are having a very restful day. Thinking of everyone else who's trying to navigate family stress and just get through the day!

We moved abroad in July, no present from my parents for son's birthday and now no call or present for him for Christmas. It's the end of the day here so that's that. I'm not surprised, just heartbroken. It's not financial just dysfunctional, they will be all over my sister and her kids at her house later today but put their phone off the hook and didn't respond to Facetime earlier. I have spent years trying to be a good daughter etc. I feel like just giving up and going NC for good. Sad times. Anyway hope you all have a good Christmas.

Hi all and merry Christmas. Stay strong, these horrible parents' failings are not your fault and not correlated to your self-worth and loveliness. Honestly.

I'm a bit further down the NC road and it was the best thing I ever did for my mental health. I found out this year that my mother died a few years ago (my father didn't bother to tell me ) - I honestly felt nothing but relief, mostly. I was more upset when my cat ran away recently

My narc-enabling, cold, racist, unable to communicate like a human being father is somewhere in the world this Christmas, presumably on his own. His loss - a consequence of treating his daughter and her DH like crap. His loss.

I am having a great Christmas with my wonderful DH and DC, and our real family (DH's side). No drama (except the cat is still missing). Brilliant.

Those are suffering - please remember you are not beholden to these abusers. You CAN break free.

I would like to wish all the Stately Homes people on this thread a very Happy Christmas and New Year.

gingysmummy

I would describe your dad as her hatchet man who has failed utterly to protect you from his wife's mad excesses of behaviour. This makes him equally culpable. He is basically telling you by his words and actions that you have to suck it up, she is more important to him than you ever would be here. narcissistic women always but always need a willing enabler to help him and that is what he is here too.

ditto

Need your advice please!

My PIL were physically and emotionally abusive to my DH until he reached 19 and threatened to hit back.

The first time I met them FIL raised his hand to hit me. We left immediately.

My lovely DH had a breakdown last year and after counselling felt strong enough to confront them over the phone. Their response was that it was in the past.

Since then, we've had minimal contact maybe 3 times a year. They're very polite to us both now, but I spend my time thinking about what they've done and the effect it has had and still has on my lovely DH.

I'd love to go no contact but DH isn't ready, especially as the only contact we have with his niece and nephews is at their house.

We're due over there the day after tomorrow and I am dreading it. My resistance is low at the moment as I'm hurting a lot physically and I have to bite my tongue at the best of times with them. Does anyone have any coping strategies that I can try?

I should say that DH says that I don't have to come, but I know they won't be as polite if I'm not there and I do feel that I should support him as I know how difficult he finds it.

Actually I think you should tell them that none of them are going. Really. Hard as it is.

I can see why you want to support him though.

Failing that, .... if your resistance is low, it really is hard. Maybe it would help to put your professional face on and treat them as if they were unpleasant clients or customers. Maybe play the Unpleasant PIL Bingo that someone mentions on another thread. If they have stock phrases, assign each one a number in your head. when they come out iwth it, there you go Bingo, another one. The aim is a full card, then you earn a glass of wine =)

Can you have contact with your nephew and niece outside their house?

Worst case, and this is pretty wicked, provoke FIL so he does hit you and then that gives you a really great excuse to go NC. It's pretty extreme but if you get cold icy rage and believe that they are still truly toxic - it's not the worst option. The worst is just taking the nastiness.

neither of you should go there but it may well be that your DH on some level still thinks his abuisve parents will change and actually be sorry. However you know as well as I do this will not happen.

coping strategies need to be about boundaries, raise these and stick to it to the letter. Any bad behaviour means that you leave immediately.

Would your DH be willing to see a counsellor about going no contact with his parents, he really needed to speak to someone who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite mistreatment. he still seems very much in FOG with regards to his parents. Why do the nieces and nephews visit them at their house, is there no way they could visit you instead in your home?. What is the situation re the parents of these young people?

CatLady I think you'll have to postpone the visit as your flare up has made it impossible for you to go, and DH needs to take care of you.

;)

then you can re-group in the new year and the pressure is off...

Thank you so much for your replies, it is very much appreciated.

My BIL - father of the niece and nephews - was the golden child. He and my DH do not get along.

DH has tried to have contact with the children outside of the PIL house, but even though he is a special educational needs teacher, he's not allowed to take them without one of the PILs being there. It's okay to leave them with child abusers though.

BIL lives about 5 hours drive away. PIL will often look after the children for a week during half term / summer holidays etc. Part of the reason that DH goes over then is to make sure that PIL are behaving themselves and not getting angry with the children.

BIL has minimized the abuse and is happy to use the PIL for childcare, but it makes DH very worried.

Meerka - I have actually said to DH that I hope FIL hits me, so that I can prosecute him. DH said that if that happened, he'd support me not FIL. It's tempting as at least DH would get some justice.

PIL are strong Christians and the only time DH has really got a response was when he threatened to tell the church congregation about the abuse. They're well respected in their local community and worry a lot about their reputation. If only people knew!

It is really no point at all in trying to maintain a relationship with BILs children particularly as their dad as the golden child and your H unsurprisingly do not get along. Also these children are themselves being manipulated by their parents and may well turn against your DH given future opportunity.

Your DH is still very much being seen as the scapegoat for all his family of origins inherent ills. That was and remains his assigned role. Yor own self preservation matters above all else here. Sod his family of origin,it's all very dysfunctional and narcissistic in nature.

Would your DH be willing at all to talk to the Police about this historic abuse?. I would be sooner talking to them rather than these church elders because they could also cover it all up as well. So called pillars of the community are often anything but.

So called pillars of the community are often anything but. Isn't that the sad truth.

If you feel you can, I'd second suggesting your DH talks to the police too. If he feels he is able to.

BIL is a paediatrician, specialising in autism, and SIL is a family solicitor. They use PIL for about 3 times a year for a few days to a week at a time.

DH's counsellor said to him that he could go to the police about it, I think that's what made DH realise how serious it was. The counsellor was really good and helped him a lot but has moved to join a commune in France now!

DH still feels so responsible for his niece and nephews and really wants to keep a relationship with them. He'd be devastated if PIL did anything to scare or hurt them and would blame himself.

He calls PIL once a week. He says this is to stop them from calling us, I've said to him that he doesn't need to pick up the phone if it rings. Or we could change our number, but he won't have it.

FIL's health isn't great, has pacemaker etc, and they use this to their advantage of course. Once they called DH to say that FIL needed to go to hospital urgently, that the pacemaker was failing. DH called me at work in hysterics so I came straight home so we could go to the hospital. I suggested DH call to find out which hospital (2 in local area) before we left home, and he was told 'oh, we're just about to go to the supermarket'. Turned out that the pacemaker battery needed changing in the next few months, but they'd deliberately phrased it to panic DH to get him to react.

Merry Christmas ladies & gents (if there are any currently on here) :) I hope you had a good one today, or at least as good as it could be considering your many different situations.

How are all of you coping with today's events? Were they good, OK or just plain bad? I'm here to listen to you if any of you need to bash my ear. Sometimes just letting it out can help and sometimes having constructive advice helps too. It's easy to give advice when looking in on a particular situation, such as the abusive ones many of you are experiencing, but when you're in the thick of it, it can be hard to see appropriate ways to deal with them and see a way out.

It's understandable that you don't really want to cut your relatives out, but at the same time it becomes hard because you can't live with their abuse. Unfortunately cutting them out may be the only way to save your sanity before it collapses (best word I could think of ATM).

Anyway, I'd love to hear about you day today and what you got up to. I'm not here to judge, just to listen and hope that it helps

Can I join?

Haven't spoken to MIL in over 15 months since she ruined our wedding day (tip of the iceberg, was the final straw though)

PIL haven't acknowledged DH since April when our son was born - one phone call, and then nothing since. No birthday card/present for him, and now nothing for Christmas. Meanwhile, PILS have sent cards declaring love for our two kids (one of whom they haven't even met!) ...so clearly happy to cut off their own son, but still think they can have some kind of control over our kids!

DH is upset today. and it's ruined our day tbh. I'm totally ok with not being in contact with them (MIL in particular is a nasty piece of work) but DH is missing his Dad ( I quite like him but he is totally spineless and won't acknowledge his wife is a cow)

How do I get DH to be at peace with just being happy in his own family?

Bloody toxic parents!

Pengy your DH seems to have a toxic parent and her enabler. The enablers may know what the toxic person is like, but refuse to see the bad in them, preferring to excuse their behaviour by thinking/believing they are ill/stressed etc. A toxic person can and will manipulate people to suit them and any threat by another person may be perceived or real, will be dealt with usually in a verbally abusive manner or by cutting people off.

They seem to thrive in a divide and conquer way, by selecting a Golden Child and a scapegoat. Many Golden Children (GC), even as adults will be treated with respect, but unfortunately they don't believe that others are treated any differently respect-wise. Another scenario I've found out about in my time is that the toxic person prefers to have the scapegoat on their own without the GC being around. It serves them well to keep the GC and Scapegoat apart as much as possible, so the GC doesn't see the abuse the toxic person is dishing out to the victim, therefore the GC doesn't tend to believe the toxic person is actually like that at all. OR they seem to blame the victim for the toxic person's abuse in a "You drove them to it" kind of way. One case of victim blaming.

Judging by the numerous posts on here and previous threads subsequent to this one, it seems there is a huge amount of relief when the posters have gone NC. Not having a toxic person in your life is not obligatory regardless of whether they are a relative or not. Just because your DH is a very close blood relation to your MIL, doesn't mean he is obliged to love her and he isn't obliged to have any sort of relationship with her at all.

That should be "previous threads to this one". Forget the word 'subsequent'. Why I put that in I don't know and I've not even been drinking. Just goes to show how daft I am at times