"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

She doesn't know boundrys - it's a in joke between hers ds. Only its not funny. I'm a SAHM so she calls in every night after she finished work when it's just me and dd. She just walks in. I'm going to brace myself tomoro and call her out in it. I need to im going insane over this farce. She will explode and Storm out which I'm counting on . Dp will back me up but I have to basically do the hard part. The not admitting blame is very familiar.

Kids are very pliable . I actually have an 19 year old and we moved a lot. Kids just need to know they are loved warm and fed and they will be happy . We going to move as soon as we can as mil lives two streets away also. It is suffocating I know what you mean . I would go tomoro if I could .

I did the logging thing - I shown dp how hard I was working to build a relationship with her so when she blew up last week he fully supported me. I just felt bad on him. He never asked for her to come - he just looked really sad. I could scream
Now as I'm really sad. I was so happy last week as I knew she would fuck up and I could laugh and wave good bye but I caved.

She will prob come tomoro so I need to say I don't want her around. I need to for my own sanity.

Can you keep the door locked? I had my mum at the door last time, knocking on the door, or the window. The "I can't believe you're doing this" through the letter box - then there was her shouting after DS in the street and making him cry and me having to physically pick him up and carry him away from her.

Perhaps it would be best to move. My best excuse not to - it would cost a fortune to move my piano FFS. I nee to give this some more thought and some chats with some good friends over the coming weeks is definitely due!

I feel for you seeing your sad DH - if you're not already, is counselling an option for you either together or separately? It sounds like he needs to move on from it himself but it's jot something that you can force. Poor guy, though it was easier to ditch TM because of her affect on DS as I had an excuse rather than just being dramatic.

These mothers eh, never easy are they?

God yours sounds hideous. It's weird that we allow our selfs much shit but if they start on our kids if different. That's my line I suppose

I've done locking the door - when I was pregnant. She nearly yanked the handle off . I'm ready to confront her thiugh, this needs stopping. I'm a 35 year old woman for God's sake! Jeez!

It's hard to make such a Final decision.

Giving our children boundaries and consequences is so easy. We set the rules and the limits to keep them safe and healthy. With toxic mothers, the rules are to keep ourselves safe and healthy! Though we'd never say to our DC "Do not speak to me like that again or I will cut all contact with you".

I find it hard to move away from TM though especially when I've had friends before that have lied to me, refused to admit their deceit or to apologise and I've just sent them texts saying not to contact me again and I find it so hard to say it to her.

I read upthread about having to grieve the loss of the mother that I never will have. I think that's true and it's something that I'll have to give more thought to as well as thinking about moving house. One thing is for sure: life is never easy.

I'm not sure what to suggest about your MiL - besides calling the police re harassment

feel awful for everyone whose posted since i last did.

seza i am SO sorry that was your christmas. talking about pots and kettles - all they had to do was leave you and your son in peace and get on with their day - it is THEM who were determined to ruin your day AND your ds's with their intrusions and horribleness and their blackmail of holding his presents hostage. familiar to me and repugnant. i'm in similar situation of still living near by and it being just me and ds and having a mini me version of TM in a sister - sorry if i've got your situation wrong.

goodtobetter - wow - well done you. i was writing my letter in my head the other day and wondering if i was finally ready to write it and send it lol. what will you do with the reply do you know? the wise thing would be to burn it but i'm not sure i'd have the strength personally.

allingoodfaith - she sounds like an absolute nightmare! you must be so strong to still be married. all i can think, and it's maybe not constructive is to scare the living daylights out of her one on one the next time she swans into your house when you're alone. spell out for her exactly what you won't put up with anymore, exactly how too far she has gone and exactly what you are willing to do and to tell her son if she continues and kick her out of your house. this is very cynical of me but surely she has lost all credibility having tried to make you believe her son was cheating? will she be believed if he tells her you threatened her with x, y and z? if this woman knows no boundaries and your husband is unable/unwilling to properly deal with it but you want to stay with him maybe it's time to fight the devil yourself? sorry - tail end of flu so if i sound to machiavelian (too tired for spelling revisions) please forgive me.

Hi, thought I would join for a little support.

My parents were very neglectful of me as a child. Physically and emotionally. My mother could also be very emotionally abusive, always shouting and telling me how bad I was.

The incident that sticks out most in my mind is my mum discovering I'd been cutting. She asked why I didn't want to tell her and I said I didn't want her to think I was weird. And she said, 'but...you are weird.' To this day, I can't hear the word 'weird' without feeling sick.

Our relationship has improved. We had a period of NC and after that she realised she couldn't treat me however she chose.

But the thing is that I have BPD. I had a run of being well, but after a relationship ended, I am feeling so bad again. And I am currently abroad, but I have to go back to live in my parents' spare room. I have no other option, really.

I don't know. I didn't want my life to be like this.

allin .... it takes women on average 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship, apparently.

So this was Attempt One.

Your MIL may not be living in the same house, but from what you say she's sure as heck a seriously bad influence in your life.

So you caved once. So now see what unfolds. If she picks up exactly the same again - you know, you can go NC again.

Maybe your husband would understand if you say that you don't want to go NC. That you feel bad about it but that you're driven to it. That's why you gave in last time, because you felt bad for her, but that it's started all over again and at the same level.

Hallo whitecandles ... in haste, welcome to the thread, will try to post more later. Feel for you.

Hope everyone is surviving honey, seza goodto, kali, crazycat, mcSandta. Hope attilla is enjoying her time away, odd to not have her posting!

Good morning Meerka, and everyone else. How are you all? Hope you're all surviving the Christmas and New Year period so far.

I understand it can be a nightmare at this time of the year. My mum is always nice to me, but for the rest of the year she tends to get her wee sly digs in when she can. I had to move 100 mile away for university, and it's great not having my mum living 5mins walk away.

TBH one of the best things I did was to adopt 2 staffies. Mum, being a Daily Mail reader thinks they're vicious aggressive dogs (mine are 2 big sucks and would cuddle you to death).

Apologies for posting and running, I've a bad infection in my toe and have to see the Dr about getting some antibiotic/AB cream for it. Will be back soon though. Take care ladies

I meant to say that my mum refused to come round to my previous house because of the dogs, but dad (also being a DM reader, began to really take to them). Makes me quite glad that I got them. I know it's childish, but it works for us ATM.

Will see you good ladies soon.

Morning ladies thanks for the replies this thread is such a good support line.

Had a cry chat with dp this morning. I ended up getting in to the spare bed last night as didn't want to be around him. He came and found me this morning and asked what's wrong

He knows what his mum is like, he is the first to admit she is someone he wouldn't even like if she wasn't his mother. Any way he was quite taken back when I said I'd considered leaving. He said he is going to tell her today to stay away from the house. He has since sent a text from work confirming that and said he will support me what ever.

Sounds good but he kind of said that last week and he did but he mentioned a few things that made me feel bad for him so I caved. I don't think k he was trying to manipulate me either. So we will have to see what happens although Xmas was a massive factor for the cave in

She will think I'm a wimp for not saying this to her face.

chiggers hope your toe gets better, I've had staffies and they were by far the to train and the most loving x

Waves to meerka

i have a dog of the hardest to train variety it seems, actually she is just complicated, i've come 'this close' to giving up on her so many times but i'm never quite sure whose fault it is lol - we have a complex relationship i have also had a lab who was a saint and so easy to train.

dogs (of the 4 legged kind) aside, i'm glad to hear your dp wants to support you allingoodfaith. i think you have to share responsibility for this cave in, i mean that kindly honest, yes he said things that made you feel bad but ideally you would have told him that made you feel bad and he'd have had a chance to say that wasn't his intention and you could have talked etc. if, as i hope, he is a good one and really does want to support you then the two of you are going to need to stay communicating and being a strong open unit so there is nothing to be manipulated directly or remotely by her toxins iyswim. so glad you have talked x

HI chiggers sorry I forgot you! (blush) Hope your toe is better. Staffies as an anti-grotty-parent shield ... could catch on. Train them to grown extra hard when the unwanted parent pops round, and stare at them unrelentingly.

allin what does it matter to you what she thinks? truly?

It sounds as if your husband is quite understanding actually, perhaps more than you realise ... it really is hard to go NC, though you always have the right to ensure life is tolerable and if that means LC or NC, so be it!

Just a quick note to say hello, I can see some of us have had Chinese curse interesting Christmas'.

SendingPositiveVibesToAllTiggaxx

goodto ... I doubt you will get any joy of the reply. She is probably completely incapable of understanding anything you say :(

Can your husband read it for you? Would not suggest your brother, he is too close and it's a sort of enmeshment.

whitecandles I'm so sorry for your childhood and your mother. BPD develops when the developing psyche is put under intolerable strain for a long time. It must have been many years of pain. Have you been able to access therapy for it? Dialectic Behaviour Therapy is supposed to be very good for it.

is there absolutely nowhere else you can stay? no friends or come back and declare yourself homeless? it really really is not a good idea to go back to your parents'. Old patterns of how you interact will surface and simply being back in a place where you were told so often you were bad is a disaster. Even a hostel might be better. At the least, can you contact the mental health or housing charities to find out what the score is?

Just popping in to say hello, sorry that there have been some of the inevitable bad behaviours displayed by the toxics over Christmas. Special occasions seem to bring them out of the woodwork again! I hope despite these issues everyone has enjoyed Christmas with their families and friends.

Lovely peaceful Christmas at home with dh and DC this year, went over to my Dad's on Boxing Day and saw my db and dsil and dnephews, which was lovely

M sent cards for all of us again this year but I burnt all of them without opening or reading, and didn't even feel bad or conflicted about it, so progress there!

M also sent 'gifts' via db on Boxing Day, which I asked dh to put in the car straight away and they are still there at the moment. Last year I opened them and gave them all to the charity shop, but not sure what to do with them this year.

I really would like M to stop sending cards/gifts at all, we don't want or need them but by just getting rid of them last year she doesn't seem to have got the message. Dh thinks we should sell them on fb and use the money to buy something for DC but I don't want them or anything from her! ATM I am tempted to drop them off on her doorstep with a note saying delivery refused... But I don't want to stir things up again, apart from an attempt to friend me on fb, one email and dc birthdays/Christmas time we haven't heard from her in over a year...

So, would appreciate ideas of what to do with them please?

again, Charity Shop. It seems the best option if you don't want to risk a storm. She'll get the message if you let it drop in your brother's ear that they go to the charity shop, but that does risk the storm.

I think you're right, at least for the next few year(s) - refuse them altogether. There's a period after you go NC where you have to refuse gifts for your own sense of ... of ... rightness.

Yes, I think that's probably the best. I do feel that I'd like to tell her just once to stop sending stuff as it won't be passed onto DC it will just be disposed of immediately, so that I know I've done everything possible to get her to stop, but it would probably kick off a storm.

I hate dreading the post before birthdays / Christmas time and I asked my db not to deliver her presents again after last year, but needless to say he did, I'm sure he thinks I'm the unreasonable one and that I shouldn't deny the DC the gifts /access to their gm...sigh. My relationship with him has suffered as a result of me being nc with m, he did try at the beginning to talk to me about m, but I said my relationship with her was very different to his and this was my decision and I was happy with it, so we no longer discuss it, but it's always 'there' iykwim when we see one another. I just wish he'd grow a backbone and say 'no, I'm not delivering the presents, I don't want to get involved' (he doesn't worry about telling me he doesn't want to get involved...) but he always takes the path of least resistance . I can see myself drifting further away from him tbh, how bloody dare he judge me after all the crap I took and protected him from when we were younger

I also feel guilty when the gifts arrive, that I'm denying my DC a relationship with her, but I know what she's like and know it's the right thing to do, if she's too toxic for me etc... She will never change, she's 'done nothing wrong' so I have no option really.

This toxic stuff is such a headfuck isn't it?

Meerka I read it in the end. It was one sentence saying "I didn't get very far through this strange tirade which seems to have been written from some alternative reality".
Not at all surprised by that. But feel so much better for sending it and I'm glad I know she read it, feels like an important step, a freeing one.
Here's hoping 2015 will continue in this vein. We've had a lovely couple of days at Dbro beach flat in gorgeous winter sun. Put up some new curtains and stuff and it looks fab. Of home a day early as DH been called in to start a hopefully six month contract street sweeping for the council.

You know, i've had a letter with the 'alternate reality' line from a close relative recently. One who threw a total hissy fit over not being invited to stay .... despite being given no less than FOUR invites which she chose not to read.

Pointed this out to her, with attached copies after she demanded proof I'd invited her ... and she then picked flaws in each one saying they weren't good enough. Then the lines about how I was living in an alternate reality.

nothing you can do with some folk

lets have some wine tonight ... !

Morning ladies (yup, I got up at 1pm again)

HoneyBadger - I was suppose to host Christmas this year and then bailed on Christmas Eve when I realised that I wouldn't be able to cope with TM's drama on Christmas Day. I had everything planned perfectly and then saw her on 23rd and she began all of her "my life is shit" ranting and so I spent that evening and Christmas Eve at work upset and so text the siblings saying I couldn't do it anymore. She wouldn't have apologised, and I didn't want them all in my home making me feel like I was the bad guy as I'm the only one who has a problem with TM when she starts my brother and sister manage to walk away but I always care too much and am always just concerned about her an her mental well being. When she decides to up the anti and say she wants to kill herself, it's me that she tells. But then she also says things like that in front of DS and he shouldn't need to worry about her getting all of her teeth pulled out to have dentures because she can't afford a dentist or that she might have to lose we house because of bedroom tax or that she will have to get rid of the cats because she can't afford to feed them - or that she sometimes has nothing to eat all day etc etc etc

So anyway, I told them that I couldn't do it. DBro went with his fiancé to her family and I don't know what DSis and TM did together just that DSis was here telling me mum had spent all morning crying and that I'd ruined Christmas at 11am and then at midnight TM text me telling me sorry, I didn't ruin Christmas they had a super time.

DBro won't be in touch. DSis text me earlier saying that she needs to get something I've borrowed from TM so I'm going to trade her for my washing. TM hopefully won't contact me and then when I have my clothes back I can delete and block her numbers. I've given some thought to moving house but I love my little house and DS has told me before that the house is like part of him so think I'll probably stay put in reality until DS finishes school anyway but that's 11 years away!

i'm so sorry not to have been around! have spent last couple of days in arctic gear watching awesome games of both rugby and football. unforgettable experiences. also went to see aunt on BD, which was so lovely! adore them.

G2B wow, good for you, disappointing that she's chosen the 'never happened' and 'lalala' tactics, bbut utterly script.

remember the truth is your only friend, but her worst enemy. she will fight to death (anyone elses, not hers clearly) before she admits she's the monster you've described.

a brave move on your part, I hope it doesn't leave you feelin more frustrated.

in other news, I know this isn't the dating thread (heaven forfend) but my MrPerfectonPaper (from October/November) has realised the error of his ways and has (after apparently spending last few weeks thinking up ways/methods/words) finally emailed me, asking me to give him/us a chance.

I never stopped thinking about him, merely thought i'd have to compromise to find someone who didn't tick every single box there could be. even yesterday at the game he was on my mind, I just put him back to the back of it.

I am and .

Seza that is awful

Dp has just come home from work early saying her cant concentrate with all this going on. He asked what he should say so I said be frank and honest. He assures me I'm his priority but then said could I think about it for a couple of days first !! Wtf??!!

I just burst out crying. He quickly back tracked and said he was going to see his dad then he is going to tell her and told me to lock the door and close blinds incase she calls round before he sees her.

I'm so down about this. I never get this down about it. I feel weak and pathetic like a little girl. I also feel a bit panicky over the shower of shite im about to cause. Last week I had a solid reason and I blew it now I just look petty and feel like I'm mKing trouble. I physically feel sick with this.

ps: date is tonight

oooh hissy good luck! :)

allin .... you are doing the right thing. So you wavered once. It's not a crime - it's just human. You are doing the right thing. It's hard for your husband but your family unit > her.

Stay strong. And post here as much as you need.