Struggling with in-law relationship, help please

[KLago10]

Hello,

I'm new here so hope I'm posting in the right place! I've written about the struggle I am having with maintaining any kind of healthy relationship with my mother in law, have not included everything but think the info below will give you a good picture of the situation

My mother in law has been trying to manipulate and guilt-trip us since I became pregnant last year (our baby is nearly a year old now). One of the first things she said was "I'll try not to interfere but you know I will". She assumed she would be in the labour room with us, and when we explained that it was a very private moment and it would just be the two of us she began getting watery-eyed and said she thought "we'd all be there". My pregnancy was incredibly difficult, my baby was small (always measuring 6 weeks behind), I had SPD and was on crutches, and I had to take my maternity leave at around 28 weeks. Even knowing this, my mother in law proceeded to shout over me to my consultant and tried to dictate the date on which I'd be induced despite it being against my wishes. I was getting a tough time at work because of my boss (he was found guilty of sexually harassing me), and when I got upset she called me weak, saying "well fiance wouldn't know what to do with you when you're like that because he's never seen me be weak".

When we found out we were having a girl (she had three boys), she became even worse. Since our baby has arrived she puts pressure on us for babysitting duties, gets jealous and makes us feel guilty if anybody else visits - including my family (Mum is 3 hours away, Dad lives abroad so visits are once every three months or so) and even her own sons. She visits more than anybody to try and appease her, but it doesn't work.

We have tried speaking with her about the way she is making us feel, but upon talking to her she went and told the family a manipulated version of the conversation and played the victim. It was incredibly stressful for us when we were just trying to put in place some healthy boundaries, and were very kind when we spoke to her. We had not mentioned the issues we were having with either of our families out of respect to her. She even spread lies during my fiancés brothers wedding reception, and said I was out of order for not letting her have our baby overnight. She had been drinking steadily throughout the day, our baby wasn't sleeping well and she has said before that she'd leave my fiance to cry when he was a small baby just because she was tired - I feel this is irresponsible as as parents we don't believe in leaving our child to cry. If she is crying there is a reason, even if it's just needing a cuddle which we always have time for because we want her to grow up feeling secure and knowing we care about her.

My fiancé and I have been having a very difficult time lately, mainly due to her behaviour. We missed a call from her, as we were out at the time and called her back later just to give her an update and we were going to arrange another visit with her. She used this conversation to cut off my fiancé from speaking, and chose to guilt-trip him on us wanting to spend our first Christmas with our daughter at home (we didn't say no visitors, we just want to relax as it's been such a busy year). She said "well it would have been nice if you wanted to spend Christmas with me", then told my fiance that we're shutting her out of our lives and we make her feel very unwelcome when she visits. This particularly hurt me as I've always made a lot of effort with her despite how she has treated me over these past 18 months or so. If I have the time, I even bake her a cake I know she likes ready for when she gets to our home. I've always considered these visits to be fine, we'd talk and share stories of what we'd been up to, we'd ask her if she wanted to feed our daughter her dinner (she always declined) and she has actually seen us more than anybody on either side of the family since our daughter arrived. Finally, she ended the conversation by telling my fiance she looks forward to getting an update, "whenever that might be", and slammed the phone down on him. Again I was hurt by this as I always make sure to send her photos each week and let her know what we're up to and if our daughter is doing anything new e.g. Crawling, standing up, etc.

It has got to a point now where we have tried to communicate our feelings to MIL, however she seems to have disregarded the whole conversation and has carried on as she was before. Despite all of this I have always encouraged my fiancé to make an effort with her, but she has really gone too far this time and my fiancé's health is starting to suffer - he has been diagnosed with depression which he mainly attributes to how his mother has treated him.

It feels as if nothing we ever do is good enough, we give her a lot of our time, at the expense of seeing other members of our family in an attempt to keep her happy, but this has clearly failed.

I don't know where this leaves us with regards to having any kind of a healthy relationship with her, she has continued to ignore our feelings and we are worried that she will behave in this way around our daughter as she grows older, and my daughter won't be aware that this is not the way we treat people.

Any help or suggestions about this situation would be very helpful. Thank you

BiL: "This is getting out of hand now"

Translation - "Look, her tantrums/obsession about this is getting really unbearable for me, would you please just give in and let her have her way already? Will make my life much pleasanter. Thank you."

She has always been given into. Her behaviour has always previously worked. Her hope is that if she tantrums enough at other family members they will insist DH and you MUST give in to her just for them to be allowed some peace.

The fact she is escalating and driving the rest of the family nuts proves that your boundaries are working and you have very effectively challenged her behaviour. You're not responsible for other family members letting her behave this way to them, that is their problem and their boundaries to set. Now don't give in to her! Joysmum gave an utterly brilliant reply to use to other family members if they try pressuring. If you do give way to this pressure and do what she wants, she knows you will always give up if she just carries on long enough and hard enough. It's like a toddler screaming for sweets at the checkout.

I have been in a similar position myself, but with a member of my own family.

l cannot stress how important it is to remain strong and be a United team. DH and I did and like you had X,Y and Z family members asking/pushing/pleading with us to 'sort it out' with this person. Your DP will feel a range of emotions (especially as others are enabling his mum), but please tell him it will get easier. I am now some twelve months plus of NC and anytime I recieve a stupid/antagonistic message etc....I just laugh or even worse feel pity.

I meant messages !

Thanks Atilla, the counselling has really helped my DP so far. We are planning on going together soon so that we can strengthen what we've already got and be able to tackle all of this together and come out of the other side.

Last night my DP's other brother got in contact to try and get him in contact with MIL. DP is so shattered with it all he explained that he'd call him at the weekend to discuss, and he plans on telling BIL exactly what has been going on.

So that's twice this week she's sending people in to us. It feels relentless and we are exhausted. I can see that family members 'just want everyone to be happy', but I see it as they just want the problem to go away. It really doesn't seem to matter at all how my DP has been hurt and damaged by all of this, and they are aware that he has been diagnosed with depression. But still, apparently a relationship should be re-built.

Hooty
I will be taking over answering all calls at home, or leaving it to go to voicemail. You're right in that people are getting involved without knowing the facts (and openly saying so!) but STILL aren't asking for my DP's account of the story.

wreckingball
Not sure if MIL visits here, just fancied changing my name at the time :)

shovetheholly
That's very true, knowing who she is she does challenge a lot of plans we make and things we are doing. To constantly be expected to justify something you are doing (Going to the zoo without her? Leads to tantrums, whining and a guilt-trip), is ridiculous and completely exhausting. Re contact with DD, there is no doubt in either of our minds that she won't have contact with our child going forward - even if DP decided to remain in some form of contact with her. Especially as MIL has hurt me physically before, grabbed my hand and smacked it incredibly hard twice in front of DP's family for something I said. The reaction would be colossal, and I'm not sure how we could deal with it? I feel it would be less stressful (in the end) for us all to be completely NC.

rumble
You've hit the nail on the head there, everyone pacifies her regardless of the circumstance because it's easier to make yourself miserable rather than deal with the almighty tantrum on the horizon. Just so worried that she'll turn DP's family against him, e.g. Because she is pulling out all the stops in trying to get DP to speak to her, DP will be seen as awkward and the family will just see how 'hurt' MIL is.

shrekandprincessfiona
It's promising where you've got to a point of laughing/pitying when you get a message, I so hope my DP can get to that place one day! In his words, he'd have cut off contact a long time ago but is scared of losing the rest of the family.

It -will- pass, KLago, the storm.

Either she will give up ... in the end ... with only low level rumbles or else the worst of it will pass and you'll get the odd flying monkey / pityparty mails or whatever, but the good (!) thing is that you do toughen up and get used to it.

You're in the thick of the storm atm. It won't last forever.

Hi KLago10.

I can't really add much to what others have said, but I didn't want to read and run.

I think that you are absolutely doing the right thing. Reading what you're going through is like a mirror of what DP and I have been through. We don't have children yet- in some ways I am glad that things 'escalated' before we even started thinking about them. We are now nc with DP's whole family but have been through it all- emotional blackmail, bribery, abuse (physical and mental), threats, health scares... And the flying monkeys! His sister called one day and said "if you just do what she wants, all of this will go away". I wish it was that simple! Please do not give in to her- we made this mistake on one occasion, and it made things so much worse in the end. It reached the point where both of us were very ill, and we nearly split up as a result of the strain.

I think that your DP does need to prepare himself for the possibility of losing contact with his brothers. It sounds like they are very much under her thumb. I would also urge you to go to couples counselling- we found this so, so valuable. We talked about what we would do in certain situations, how we saw the future etc: this was great- there are no nasty surprises now. We have a clear plan for things like 'what happens if his Dad is in hospital' or 'what happens if DP is critically ill- do I call them?'

Stay strong! Things have got better for us- I think because we have rigidly stuck to what we said to her for the past 2 years. I refuse to play her games any more. We still have 'wobbles'- Christmas was hard. But things are so much better. I really feel like we lost 'us' in the fog of it all, and we are getting back to something resembling normality now.

Please do what is right for your little family. Sending lots of love xxxx

The wider family are reacting by habit, just as she has trained them to. If you and DH continue to just calmly do what you're doing, just not engaging, not playing her game - there is only so far she can up the ante.

You know the family are pressuring you because they want HER to stop pressuring them. When leaning on you and DH doesn't work they will eventually realise the only way to relieve the pressure is to face their real problem - that her behaviour is unpleasant for them! If you don't give in, there will be a point where they will get tired of her crap and start to confront it or avoid it themselves. It may take time, but I don't think DH will lose his family over this.

DaisyChain
All the tactics are really frustrating aren't they? It feels like our relationships with DP's extended family are going to suffer, as they are now choosing to get involved, not asking for our side, etc. What your DP's sister said is shocking! How unfortunate that she has decided to live like this. I'm so glad you've been away to break away from all the toxic behaviour. That's also a good point about having plans in place for certain circumstances, I have asked DP how he would feel if his mother wasn't there when we got married, and he said he feels like he doesn't really care and knows it'd be stress free without her (she HAS to be centre of attention at all times, very embarrassing). How sad :(
Thank you for your support! Xxxxx

Rumble
I'd like to think that'll happen, that BIL's will realise who is causing the problems here, I think they feel obliged to make all of this go away for her. She really lays the victim act on thickly. There doesn't seem to be any consideration or care that what she says and does really hurts and damages relationships, and they both know DP has depression.

I received a text from BIL explaining that he hoped I understood that he's told MIL about my DP's depression/counselling/being signed off work. This is after asking me specifically if he should tell her and after checking with DP I replied by saying no, as it is something that needs to come from him if he decides he wants to contact her. I can understand that he felt his mother should be aware of it, but I can't understand why he didn't respect mine and DP's wishes and not tell her this? It's incredibly personal information that he hasn't felt able to share with many people at all, and it's left him (and me) feeling that our boundaries are not being respected again. DP asked me not to reply to this message, and he hasn't spoken to BIL since so it feels like now their relationship will suffer. Before this they were incredibly close, more like best friends.

Other BIL text DP to call him, with the same message as 1st BIL really, that this was getting out of hand and it needed to be resolved. DP was knackered, didn't want to keep re-telling the story (BIL text in the evening after DP had a long shift at work) so explained he'd call the next day to give his side of things. DP did this, and no answer from BIL and didn't call him back. He hasn't called back but could have been busy, but DP did say that he would be calling to talk about this so really had to hear himself up for it. Still not heard from him.

You need to tell BIL that yes you do mind that he told her, seeing as he'd asked you and you said no you didn't want him to. You need to be plain about your wishes and challenge his bad behaviour here. I can understand why he did it to, but it was a betrayal of trust. It'll also have made the situation worse because someone like his mother is unlikely to treat that information with any respect.

In future, don't communicate anything of value / anything that makes you vulnerable with any of them. It's very hard, it creates a very sad distance, but you have to be aware that they are dominated by her and will not be able to stand up to her.

If anything can be salvaged, they too need to respect your (quite justified) boundaries.

Regarding the other BIL. This is all very difficult, gearing yoruself up for a call like that then not being able to get through. Keep supporting him. It might be wise to gently lay the groundwork with your husband not to expect too much from this BIL, too

Hi everyone,

I'm back as unfortunately the situation is escalating at quite a rapid pace.. Feeling lost and a little hopeless in all of this.

Since I last posted DP had a lot of progress with his counsellor and felt strongly that he couldn't move forward with a relationship with his mother. As she was still calling and texting 3-4 times a week, sending DP's father in to try and talk him round, he sent her a simple text telling her why he doesn't want to speak to her and to stop contacting him and that he needs space. Then that he would make contact with her if he wanted to speak to her.

She hasn't respected his wishes, calls just as much regardless of what he said, has left the "I just want to give you a cuddle" voicemails and still calls his DF crying down the phone because apparently she doesn't understand what she's done (this has been spelt out to her).

It was DP's birthday recently and we expected a call. She called him 3 or 4 times leaving voicemails, and again cried down the phone to his DF. DF then rang DP quickly saying happy birthday then laid into him about the situation with his DM. Brilliant. DP put the phone down on him and they haven't spoken since.

So today we visited family and it was disclosed to me (whilst DP was out of the room) that DMIL has categorically denied ever saying that she was cutting us off, that she'd put the phone down on DP multiple times etc. Basically making out that we're lying about all of this.

What I'm left wondering is, where can we go from here? I feel like she's just as much a part of our lives now as when we used to see her, we're stressed, exhausted and we're still being told by family members that "there has to be some contact at some point", when I ask why if that would make DP unhappy, we get the answer of "because she's his mother/she's family". To me that isn't enough. Being family is even more of a reason to treat each other with kindness and respect. What a bloody awful example that would be setting to our daughter.

I should probably say that only 1 of DP's brothers has asked how he's feeling about the situation and his depression, the rest of the family haven't bothered to ask him how he's coping and if his medication is helping or anything. Feels like they've abandoned him and taken sides with DM despite not even asking DP for his account of things.

Any advice would really help, I've run out of ideas, just want to tell her to categorically stay out of our lives but I know this will create even more of a divide for DP and his family. In a way it feels like it would be pointless for us to do that as she has no respect for what people need and has no boundaries.

Thanks everyone for reading xx

Start diarising every contact and see a solicitor about a restraining order. You could also consider calling 101. A visit from a police officer about harassment might make her STFU.

The trouble is with large dysfunctional families, when one member sees the light and starts pointing out reality and not conforming to the narcissists version of reality any more, every other member flies into a panic. It's the crab bucket in action. They're terrified to confront the truths about the family and their role in it.

I think it was Alice Miller who once said that they only truly healthy member of a dysfunctional family is the child (or adult child) who is speaking out about the abuse. They are the only person who accepts the truth; all others are determined to continue the lie.

Has your DP had a read of Toxic Families, or other books regarding narcissists? I would also recommend he sees a counsellor to help work through this total headfuck being thrown at him.

Ultimately he may end up out of contact with most of the family. However if they are all determined to keep drinking the Kool Aid, he will be much healthier out of it. Not to mention his child not having to be exposed to this delusional viewpoint.

Bloody hell

No advice I'm afraid, but I'm so sorry you're still having a shit time.

Stay strong, you're not the ones in the wrong here x

You are right, nothing you do will be good enough so stop trying.

She is behaving like a toddler having a tantrum, so treat her like one, ignore her. So what if she spread lies about you, what's the worse that could happen?

So sorry, I should have read the whole thread not just your first post.

I think it's time that you told everyone what you said here, if they want to continue siding with her, let them, go nc with the lot of them, you do not need people like this in your life.

pocketsaviour is right, people in a family don't like to hear about what happened to a brother or sister if they experienced a different childhood/relationship with their mother. I could be your DP had the brunt of the controlling behaviour and they just don't see it that way. Or they would rather things stayed as they are. People freak out and can get quite aggressive. Don't worry, it doesn't last forever. But it doesn't mean you should back down. It's actually very strong and assertive to stick to your guns against their opinions. Eventually, they'll see it for what it is once they have processed the information and thought about it.

However, the very fact that MIL has thrown her toys out the pram and is telling lies about you shows she has heard what you are saying. Unfortunately, she won't ever apologise because her brain is wired up to look after number one and control everyone around her. It's possible she was the victim of this sort of controlling behaviour as a child and it has affected her adult relationships.

So, stay strong. It has escalated because she is losing control. But eventually everyone else will process the information and see it more how it is, rather than how they would like to believe it is.

Stop discussing it with other family members. Stop allowing her to use others to pull you back into her drama. Develop a stock phrase to shut down all further discussion and use it. EG 'When MIL is prepared to apologise, we'll be prepared to consider it. Until then this topic is closed.' or 'It's between DH and MIL and not up for discussion.' Or something else which works for you both. People will stop getting involved once they realise how pointless it is.

This may be crap advice but have you thought about just diffusing it completely?

So, anytime anyone mentions anything or moans at you just say 'I haven't the foggiest what you are going on about everything is fine now as far as we know'. Then still do not take any of her calls or respond to emails.

She can only fight you when there is something to fight with. If you take the wind out her sails, so no justifying yourself with the she did, she said - just say oh it's all forgotten now. And continue not to see her. What is she going to do? She needs you guys to complain and be upset to feed her fire.

If she complains to others that you aren't returning calls etc, say really - we had no idea she's phoned, is she dialing the right number? Are you sure she's called? Perhaps we were out. Oh well, we will get back to her soon, honestly all water under the bridge everything is fine now.

And then don't.

If you can turn the answer phone off, it's worth a few missed calls to not hear the emotional guilt clap trap.

I think what I'm trying to say is she needs you to be upset and justifying yourselves to keep it all going. Otherwise there is no drama to enthrall her.

Hi OP. Poor you! This is honestly exactly like what we experienced.

You need to stick to your guns. This woman is not used to hearing 'no', and is basically having a massive tantrum. So not give in to her. Make sure that you've set really string boundaries with her- with my MIL, we said we wouldn't see her, but if it's a medical emergency we would help. If she turns up now we will ask why she's here, and if it's not a medical emergency we will say we can't speak to her.

With the family, I'd say "I'm not prepared to discuss this with you" and quickly change the subject. If they won't leave it then you need to be prepared to remove yourself from their company/ put the phone down. Don't have them round to your home for a while- it's harder to kick then out than to leave yourselves!

Is your DH prepared to accept that this could mean reduced/ no contact with the rest of his family? We are unfortunately nc with my DOs entire family now. Hoping that this will change in the future. for you

Sorry for all the typos

Thanks for all your supportive comments

It was quite clear with one family member yesterday that she's been spinning lies. Unfortunately that person has fallen for it completely and believes every word she says, which made him question of what we're doing is just to 'punish' her. Ridiculous.

We've talked about what we feel is possible, and realistic, and as she's still lying and manipulating others whilst still trying to get back 'in' with us, she's just not somebody we can have in our lives anymore. If she's going to play the victim regardless of her actions and our feelings, we need to protect our (otherwise incredibly happy) little family from her. I couldn't ever forgive myself or DP if she damaged/hurt our DD or any future children.

Although it hurts very much, this is the only realistic option. And we know that we've tried many times with her to start anew, but nothing changes. Yesterday we felt so low and stressed, completely ruined the last day of our break together and we can't allow that to happen anymore.

DP has said the tag line from now will be "Yes I/we'd love to see you. Any conversation re MIL is off the table though. If you do bring her up then we'll be leaving/ask you to leave" and that'll be it.

What's on my mind at the moment is how we communicate to MIL that this is how things will be from now on? Does it have to be face to face? Or by letter/email? I'm not sure what's best, I personally feel like seeing her in person may be a mistake as we've no intention of seeing or speaking to her going forward. At least with a letter we can keep the original, so if she lies again (and we feel that it's necessary) we can show people what was actually sent?

I can't really believe myself that it's come to this, but then she doesn't think the way we do and clearly doesn't cherish her family. Time to focus on the lovely people we do have in our lives and keep fostering those relationships

Why do you have to communicate how you're going be with extended family to your MIL? Why do you feel the need to explain yourselves to her? It seems to me that you're still handing power to her on a plate. How much 'victim' mileage would she get out of a letter or face-to-face? Don't give it to her. Just quietly get on with your lives.

What a pain in the bum that woman is! You and DH have been extremely patient with her under the circumstances.

I'd suggest changing your home phone number and changing your mobile numbers. The endless harassment of getting her voice in your ears multiple times weekly must be extremely stressful and tiring. Not to mention she's probably getting a lot of satisfaction from being able to do it. This behaviour is rewarding for her, she's getting a lot of attention and energy from doing it, it's meeting her needs very nicely and she won't stop unless she has to. Most places will help you change number if you have issues with nuisance callers. Then be very tough about who you share the number with.

Considering how much she has the rest of the family hopping on command if you must have a number the family can reach, perhaps buy a cheap separate mobile that's kept for family texts only and check it a couple of times a week. Or explain that due to her being a complete pain in the bum unwilling to respect boundaries you're moving to letter contact only.

Also agree, this is what restraining orders are for, and this may be the point to start looking into them. Being family does not give her carte blanche to stalk, harass and make you miserable to get her jollies, you've given her multiple warnings. She's not responding. This is around the point where you put something into writing, keep a copy of it, and start collating the evidence that she will not respond to any normal requests to stop harassing you.

Its an extreme step, but another option is moving. Not necessarily a huge distance, just away.

Hedgehogs - I may not have explained myself very well in the previous post, sorry! The letter wouldn't be to justify what we're doing, it would be in order to instruct her to stop contacting us and say that we hope she will respect that, but if not we will be forced to contact the necessary authorities to make her stop. We'd make it clear for her not to send gifts for DD etc, she actually hand delivered a gift for her for Easter and it freaked me out because I don't know how she got into our building in the first place (we're in a flat).

We just want family to be aware that this subject is off the table from now on and we're not discussing it. If at all possible we don't want to lose all of DP's family. If they respect that then great, we can still have a relationship. If not then unfortunately we'll not be seeing them anymore either.

Some good suggestions Rumble, thank you! We've paid for the service on our landline phone to block her numbers so need to call our provider and organise that. I really don't want to change our numbers as it's such a hassle, but I feel you are right and it'll probably come to that if she starts using other numbers to contact us.

It is definitely a constant stress working away in the background, DP was doing really well re coping with his depression, but any time his mother rears her head he becomes withdrawn again.

Sadly his family don't even seem to register this and it feels to me like it doesn't matter to them. They know that this situation has been going on for nearly two years now, not once have they piped up until recently when she started dragging everyone into it. They're only bothering now because it's giving them earache!

Hi OP.

I've been where you are, in fact I still am!
2 years have gone by since we last saw my MIL, it's been heaven. utter bliss.

Anyway. She has been spreading lies as well, the 'I don't know what I've done' was a favourite of hers. Ithat gives me the rage knowing she has been saying all sorts about when, when it's actually her fault we don't want to see her anymore.

My best quote that helps me is:

'I don't mind you telling people what I did to you, just remember to tell them what you did to me first'

just stop caring. So what if she says stuff? One day, she is going to trip herself up and everyone will see what she's like. Those kind of people always do.

Klago I think you need to ring the non-emergency police line 101 and ask them if you are in a position to ask their intervention.

as far as I understand it, you need to send one further letter saying "cease contact with us by all means; mail, phone, in person and by sending messages via other people, including all other means. Further contact by you will be considered harassment".

As I understand it once this happens, if she contacts you you really can ring the police. Check with them about this. I belive this actually includes her sending messages via other people too.

About the lies, all you can do is say 'there are two sides to every story' with dignity.

Family is family, but that doesn't give them some sort of right to walk all over you and trample on you. It's miserable when you can't love them and be part of them, but it can be a whole lot better than the utter misery of being doormats.

What you're going through now is, sadly, normal in its own sick way for a highly disfunctional family. Keep sticking to your guns and it -will- get better. Your husband is lucky to have you supporting him so strongly and you're absolutely right, you need healthy influences around your daughter not ... this.