During your childhood, how much would the following affect you as an adult?

[lauren42]

Hi everyone,

I posted the other day about a current issue with my P, and after the really helpful advice, I am being abit cheeky and seeking further opinion on a bit of a different, broader topic - though still connected to the mother!!!

How much do you think the following, if at all, would affect an only child:

• in years leading up to divorce, mother tells son regularly that she wants to leave father
• father and mother seen fighting on the kitchen floor with each other with utensils (not sure if this was a one off or regular occurance)
• son sees father hiting his mother
• at age 7, he forgets mum's birthday, and in the morning sees dad giving mum a present. he goes to bedroom and finds a new pen in a drawer to wrap up for mother, and takes it to her. she screams and shouts at son and husband because son had forgotten her birthday - apparently son should have remembered and father should have bought present on son's behalf.
• parents divorce - he is age 14 and goes to live with mother
• when father comes to pick son up for days out, mother leaves the property 15 mins beforehand and tells son not to allow father to see the family dog (the dog went to live with mother after divorce)
• mother calls father on regular basis and shouts at him abotu money and obligations he is not fulfilling
• mother tells son his father won't pay for a school trip so he cannot go (a day before they are due to leave)
• age 17, son stops seeing dad for 2 years. he has never told me why.
• age 18, son goes home to see mother, and mother disappears all night drinking and son ends up calling police because she doesn't answer her phone 2 hours after expeting her home - mother thinks this is hilarious
• at son's graduation, mother creates a huge row with father, and leaves son in tears - they both leave.

There are plenty more things in adulthood I could reference, but I am specifically interested in your thoughts on what this can do to someone as a child.

If I am honest, I am skeptical that any of the above can have any effect...I am lucky and came from a very stable background and yes I saw my paretns argue, but essentially I was very well looked after and felt like the centre of my parents' universe. My mum has told me I should be careful with my partner because 'i cant know what damage was done to him.' Is she right? are the above events all that damaging? Obviously I know they are not 'right' - just to clarify!

Parther speaks to both parents now, though he seems more like his mother's carer, and his dad's friend - not the typical parental relationship I have been used to.

I had a not dissimilar dysfunctional upbringing. I'd say, yes, it did deeply affect me. BUT I'm aware of this and am doing my best to not let MY issues impact those around me.

It may be the reason for his behaviour but its really no excuse. Whatever the reason, you need to decide if the behaviours you describe above are acceptable to you or not in a relationship and not put up with unacceptable behaviour because he didn't have the same happy childhood you did. I'd be wary of someone that was using such experiences as an excuse for bad behaviour rather than trying to work through his issues...

Also, one memory that stands out is him saying to me that 'he felt he was to blame for the divroce because he was a bad child.'

That was a LONG time ago, when i'd only just met him, and it is the only time I can remember him saying something so obvious to me that showed he was hurting.

All our experiences in life affects us, the question is, had it done do positively or negatively.

Much of what I saw as an child has actually helped me as an adult. Much more has made me more cautious.

And just to clarify... he has never used his upbringing as an excuse for anything. Apologies if that's how I made it come across!

It is quite the opposite - he wont ever sa this was bad for me/i'm damaged by this etc etc.

If anything he defends him mum at length, (and his dad actualy too), and finds it personally insukting if i even HINT that he is damaged by it.

If he cant see it, what can i do? Maybe he wasnt damaged at all?

I'm surprised it isn't obvious that an unstable home life as a child has a huge impact. It can be something some people can get over but for many therapy, good relationships and a lot of reflection are needed. It's actually overwhelming how much parents can impact their children in terms of emotional growth, self esteem and forming relationships. Family and early relationships set the scene for an individual. An unstable and frightening home life will lead a child to believe and behave as if, through to adulthood unless addressed, the world is a frightening place. I only recently realised that my issues are unstandable reactions to my own unstable family and Christmas was awful so I don't look forward to it now either and it's not easy to suppress the emotions that surface now I have my own family.

However, he may also be acting like he is because that is his personality. I may get flamed for also suggesting men can find emotional stuff more difficult to discuss and be open about - boy encouraged not to cry is typical. You have to consider whether you are willing to work through things, whether it is worth it and whether he is willing to try to change, preferably through counselling. So give him some slack as he may well be emotionally damaged, but don't break yourself trying to change him if he won't address these issues himself.

I had a horrendous childhood and I do sometimes think it's made me build big walls and weirdly there always seems to be something, almost like subconsciously I don't want happy stability but instead have to gently rock the boat. I don't like it at all but I'm more aware than ever.

What does strike me though is (please don't take offense) but you seem much more invested than he does and much more eager to get to the bottom and fix things than him. That would bother me more than anything else.

How old is he? I think it makes a difference in terms of where he is along his 'journey' away from childhood.

You seem to be trying to play a therapist role and not the role of a loving/understanding partner.

The fact he is telling you these random things when he is vulnerable means it has affected him. But you can't expect to just say to him "your parents were abusive" and let him open up to you, he'll still want to protect them, it's still his family.

If you all agree that this has been damaging for him, why cant he see that? And how can I help him if he cant/wont see it?

You seem to be playing more of an attacking than supporting role. My suggestion would be when he does open up to you that you support him, and when he tell you something say "how does that make you feel?" etc... make it about how he feels and what he's telling you. Not jump straight in and attack his parents for treating him badly, especially if he's making it about feeling bad for his mother, which maybe he rightly does, if he's only telling you piecemeal when he's not sober, likelihood is there is much more to it than you know yet. If they messed him up that badly he's probably desperate to vent BUT when you blame his parents, he probably has some twisted guilty feeling that he's slagging them off when he shouldn't be.

If he cant see it, what can i do? Maybe he wasnt damaged at all?

You're confusing me now... you are skeptical that childhood has any affect on people as adults, but then you say you can see the damage that he can't... like you're forcing the situation on him.

I'm lost

Thanks everyone, this is really helping.

Thehermitcrab - I think you are right, I have felt so shocked by some things he has told me that my immediate reaction is to feel angry with his paretns/mother for doing that to him. And you are right, I think I thought by hinting that what they did was not rightm would make him open up and maybe I could help in some way. Perhaps that is a result of my own childhood, where I would never be scared to say I felt upset etc, becaue I would expect love and understanding and attention from my parents if I did.

I really want to help :(

What advice would you give to deal with this from here? Should I leave the topic completely? If he is adamant that he is ok and that none pf this stuff was all that bad... what can I do?

Hmm, have a good read of the Stately Homes thread. Even just the first post.

Difficult upbringings come in many, many forms; violence is only one form.

You havent gone into details (possibly quite rightly, it's his life) but it sounds as if you think things were pretty weird and often just wrong.

There's something called the FOG. Fear, Obligatoin, Guilt. They are afraid of their parent(s). Afraid physically or more often, psychologically; afraid of the parental anger, the disappointment, afraid of letting their parents down, afraid of the withdrawal of love. The Obligation is that to be a good son, and most people want to be good children, he has to be there for her always. No matter what, nor in which way. Guilt is when he starts to do something she doesn't like, he feels guilty often reinforced by her acting/saying things in a way to make him feel he's a bad son.

If the FOG governs someone's relationship with their parents, they instantly get defensive. They don't dare criticise them or hear anyone else criticise them. Idolising your parents is a good idea when you're a kid becuase you're so utterly dependent on them. Adults shouldn't do it, but if they are still a child in an adult's body when it comes to their parents, they will still idolise them. Any threat to them being perfect and well ... the person might have to face up to the fact they weren't perfect and actually, things could be pretty bad and weird. Then the whole house of cards comes tumbling down and they are left with a bunch of extremely difficult emotions because half their life was based on a lie, or partial truth.

IF your partner is in this category, then that could be what's going on.

There's a great book called Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. Not all of it might apply to his mother, but it could be worth a read anyway

~I'm saying what could be the case here, from the little bits you've put. It might not be the case, too; it's just one possibility ~

thehermitcrab... I have felt for a long time that some of his behaviours owe to his upbringing.

I am skeptical that it can have such a serious impact my mum seems to think it has. If you are all correct in what you say (my mum included), I want to help him.

How to help?

Well firstly, you can't fix him.

Again ... you can't fix him.

YOU really can't.

he and a skilled therapist together might. But he has to be open to that. He's at too early a stage for even suggesting therapy, from what you say. He won't even admit there's a problem ... and well, it does sound like there is.

It may be that loosing you will be the first sign to him that things are wrong.

I wouldn't push him unless you think he is reflecting their behaviour. If your relationship is suffering because you think he has some childhood scars then you need to talk to him. BUT you've said you're skeptical about childhood even affecting people, which has confused me completely.

When he tells you the kind of things in your OP, make it about him, how did he feel? what did he do...etc? If he switches off when you mention his parents were bad parents (which it seems they were) then he may not bother bringing it up.

Him not liking Xmas is just something I think you have to deal with a little better, especially if he is still joining you and your family, just isn't as interested in the "family activities" he's present and supporting you and I'm presuming not rude? Just probably struggles to interact how you do with your family. My partner's family all hug/kiss talk openly with eachother, and I have to remind myself not to pull away or move away from a cheek kiss lol! because I don' think I've ever had a hug from my dad.

But you can't see it as an excuse for him to be cold, nasty or treat you badly at all, he's still an adult after all!

OP, it took me 2 years of psychotherapy before I could accept my parents behaviour as abusive. Like your DP, I was brought up to always put my parents needs first and challenging that was terrifying. It sounds like your DP desperately wants to believe that everything is ok now, but his talking about his parents behaviour suggests that he knows at some level that it wasn't. It sounds like he's very tentatively starting to explore the issue. It can't be rushed. He has to get there in his own time. Listen to him and encourage him to name his feelings. Let him know that its safe to talk to you about these things. Avoid any labelling of his parents or discussing your own feelings towards them, although of course you are entitled to strong feelings about them!

Lottapianos...

What should I be doing when he mentions something, then?

Ask about him and his feelings, and show no reaction or make any comment on his paretns behaviour? Just ignore it and focus on how he was feeling?

At what point should I suggest that he needs to talk to someone? If he feels so defensive about his parents, will he ever think he should talk to someone?

And how am I qualified to judge that he should or shouldnt do that? He will just say he is fine and 'how would you know.' :/

thehermitcrab...

I think I have made this sound confusing.

I personally havent had experience of childhood affecting nayone as an adult. It made me have a skeptical approach when my mum told me to be more careful about damage that could be done.

In my own right I feel that some of his behaviour is a consequence of his childhood, but I felt if I mentioned that his parents wee wrong, he could easily see as an adult that they were and thus change it. Tha thas not been the case and therefore I am led to believe my mum that it is deeper rooted than i imagine.

lotts pianos.. what made you see you needed some help, if you dont mind me asking?

lauren ... Im sorry but you cannot be this man's saviour.

It will only work between you if you are more or less in a position of equals and if you are getting your own needs met too.

Honestly, don't go down the route of attempting to save someone who doesn't want to talk and who isn't ready. Unless you are extraordinarily lucky, and I mean extraordinarily, you will let yourself in for a long, long time of pain and hurt.

It took 18 years for this man to become an adult. The damage done could very, very well take 18 years to be repaired .. if it ever can be.

You sound a very caring person but you need to weigh your own needs in the balance with his. His don't outweigh yours. And he sounds like he just isn't ready to face things. You could be in for a lot of hurt.

Absolutely agree with not becoming anybody's saviour. Its a thankless and exhausting role and doesn't work anyway.

Seeing a therapist at first had nothing to do with my parents... at least that's what I thought at the time... I had been out of a violent controlling relationship for a year and realised that I hadn't begun to deal with it. I had begun a new relationship with my now DP and didnt want to drag any baggage from the old one with me. Discussions about my parents only started very gradually about a year in. Having emotionally abusive parents and ending up in a violent relationship were not unconnected incidentally

I had a pretty shitty childhood, and I kept a stiff upper lip about it (didn't tell most of it to anyone) until I was forced back into the family again, got out in late teens only to be eventually squashed again by a fiancee's weird addictions which left me suicidal. The therapists in the hospital helped me to see that having a stiff upper lip was doing nothing to help but a lot to hurt me, by bottling it all up. I became more open but it was a bit like opening the floodgates.

If you think these things are still issues then perhaps suggest he sees a psychotherapist (I'd not bother with counselling, go for the real deal if you are going to bother). However if he doesn't see this as a problem and you are hoping to change him in some way I don't think it will work.

For me: I know I am very independent and get pretty suspicious of anyone trying to help or partners who move too fast as I have been let down considerably in the past. It also means I try to control a lot of things beyond my control which causes anxiety. I have had more psychotherapy sessions in the last 3 years and her main advice was that I need to be kinder to myself. She confirmed I had been abused and let down all through my childhood and getting away in my late teens was a huge turning point. Having a messed up family can mean you don't have the normal goal posts and can't draw the line when behaviour is unreasonable, or go to the opposite extreme and get very protective over minor issues. It's not always consistent either but being away of why you are acting the way you are is hugely enlightening. Just be aware it doesn't 'fix' someone and can be a very emotional thread to unravel. It won't work overnight.

Being someone who didn't have the best childhood, and understand you're partner's issues, I wouldn't be as doom and gloom as Meerka and say You could be in for a lot of hurt unless you think your relationship has already turned sour because of his behavior.

Despite my crappy past me and my partner are happy and expecting our first child in Jan, and I am very much looking forward to building my own family and not letting my past put a negative on any of it.

I would however love counselling for the things that still get to me, but lack of pennies stops that at the moment.

You can still have a healthy relationship with someone who has had/still has shitty parents (there's plenty of them on here! lol)

I'd just support him when he brings it up now and again.. talk about how he feels, and not put the focus on his parents.

I think the best way to help a friend or a partner who has had to put up with all that is to simply be there for them, and to listen when they want to talk about it, and maybe be a bit more forgiving for odd behaviour.

It feels as if you need him to admit he is damaged. That is frankly a bit weird, and unhelpful.

I also wonder if you talk more openly with your mother (discussing private issues in depth) than with him.

And whether this hinders your relationship?

I was told by a counsellor that we are just Russian dolls. What happens to us in childhood is always going to be deep at the core of us...

Thank you - everyone is so helpful! I really appreciate all the commetns and advice :)