Intimacy - reading the signals - always being ready

[jack45132]

Ok - so this is man posting - looking to learn. In v. long term relationship, with two lovely young children, and OH that I still find more attractive than ever.

If it was up to me, we would be spending more time together, kisses, cuddles, and yes sex - which makes me feel accepted and closer to her.
She would probably say she is very tired most of the time, and doesn't always feel comfortable in herself. She would probably also say that when we do have intimacy, she's feels happier.

The problem I am struggling with is getting a balance between initiating cuddles, massages, and sex versus being seen as pressurising. It is also emotionally and physically frustrating to go to bed every night 'on standby' hoping for closeness. After months of this it's then so easy to deal by switching off, and not trying. The worst outcome for me is not suggesting or going for a hug, because of wanting to look casual, and not pressurise WHILE all along this happens to be a night when she actually wants me to initiate..what a tragedy, it's a short life....

Stereotypical posts seem to be; posts where women complain their OH go nowhere near them anymore, and other posts where men complain of a lack of intimacy.

It's seems like an age old problem....bit sad really

[simontowers2]

If i were you OP, i'd cool off a bit, forget sex, massages etc and just be platonic for a few months. See what happens. If she doesnt initiate anything back, you know where you stand - ie she just isnt that into you any more.

[YonicSleighdriver]

"Besides , housework isn't sexy and women don't get turned on by it. "

You are right, I am rarely turned on by folding the laundry or loading the dishwasher. No one is, that's the point.

But if in any part of a relationship, one party is feeling overburdened by something by the other (and this might be earning as well as domestic stuff) then this could reduce intimacy. It's not a covert contract, it's the give and take of human relations.

Anyway, no point me commenting further as we don't know if any of these things are true in this particular case.

[Twinklestein]

If baldingballerina is not actually taking the piss, it's really bad advice.

[Twinklestein]

Quite Yonic (although that post is so absurd I assume it's a joke).

If not, the point is not whether housework in itself is sexy (!) but that a partner who pulls their weight with the chores & childcare decreases the wife's workload and tiredness.

[rb32]

First off, speak to her and tell her exactly what you said in your opening post.

If she ignores it or doesn't really want to talk about the matter in hand then, well your (not)fucked. If she's not into sex right now and you're treating her well in every other way, there really is not much you can probably do!

[badbaldingballerina123]

Is this going to be one of those threads where certain posters insist on misunderstanding what I have said ? Why on earth has someone posted about intimacy issues been inundated with advice to do more around the house ? Why the assumption that he doesn't do his fair share ? Simply because he's a man ?

I don't think my post is absurd at all. I think what is absurd is this obsession with housework and advice about giving her money for make up and clothes in an attempt to improve intimacy. Could that suggestion be more offensive ?

Maybe I've got it wrong. Maybe he should do more and more housework and become the butler. Maybe he should ensure she has lots of time to herself and give her lots of money for clothes and make up. Because that will apparently make her feel more attracted to him.

There could be many reasons the wife feels as she does. Maybe the Op has let himself go , maybe the wife is on ads that reduce her drive. Maybe she has an underlying medical problem or a number of things.

[plantsitter]

Yes. Speak to her. Don't mysteriously get some new clothes and a haircut or live platonically for a few months. That would seriously worry me. Play the long game and be honest.

[YonicSleighdriver]

"She would probably say she is very tired most of the time, and doesn't always feel comfortable in herself.She would probably also say that when we do have intimacy, she's feels happier"

This is the only inkling that OP has given of what his wife might think. Suggestions of ways of reducing that tiredness and increasing her 'comfort in herself' don't seem that absurd, do they?

[plantsitter]

Baldingballerina what are your circumstances? Have you really never ever felt worn down and drudge because you have small children and are knackered? I think most people are just talking about their own experiences of feeling like this - of feeling like sex is one more chore to fit in to a busy day. I'm sure this feeling is not exclusive to women but it's not a woman asking about it is it??

[badbaldingballerina123]

Without the Op elaborating further it's hard to say. Is she seriously fatigued , needing excessive sleep ? If so she needs to see a doctor. If she says she's too tired for intimacy but then spends two hours playing candy crush or chatting on Facebook it's unlikely to be tiredness.

[arsenaltilidie]

There is an old saying that says:
Men have sex for validation and flirt for fun, whereas woman flirt for validation and have sex for fun.

After sex you become more flirty and fun to be around because you are not desperate and needy. Which makes her feel special to you, and you have sex. The cycle continues.

If something happens in that cycle someone has to start it somewhere.

Don't make sex a 'heavy' topic because it will give her pressure and pressure is no fun.
Control yourself; continue to flirt and have fun but with absolutely no pressure for sex.
Eg. go for a candlelit dinner and in bed when she's expecting you to initiate just have a chitchat about things and go to sleep cuddling.

[Vivacia]

That's an old saying?!

[badbaldingballerina123]

Yes plant I have experienced that feeling. However it wasn't because I was tired or because I didn't have money for make up. It wasn't because my p didn't do his share round the house. It was because I had lost attraction to my partner and at the time I didn't understand how attraction worked or why I felt as I did.

No amount of massages would help , no amount of housework would help or romantic dinners. In fact him doing these things made it worse along with tentative nervous approaches to intimacy. He didn't understand it and neither did I. So he did what all men are told to do , more housework , candles and massages. I made excuses about tiredness , hormones and other such stuff. I definitely was not attracted to the butler.

When we met he was an outgoing confident man who I was attracted to. In time that changed and he became almost submissive to me. He became the typical nice guy , the type that women typically friend zone. He became desperate to please and dependant on me in a way I cannot describe. He did his share of the housework , massages and other stuff like that expecting it to turn me on. It didn't.

Which I why i urged the Op to not make covert contracts 're housework . Of course no one thinks housework is sexy and of course the idea is to take the load off the wife so she has more energy for intimacy. That IS a covert contract if the Op is expecting sex as a result.

It's also why I gently urged the Op to recall past hobbies or to remember who he was when they met.

[jack45132]

Thanks for all the quick replies - sorry out all day. I've rewritten the below several times, and still not happy with what I'm trying to say;

To elaborate on my post with more information; I have talked with her about this, and we both work hard and to similar amounts. We find an hour or two in the evening.

I feels men desire for intimacy is commonly misconstrued as just simply wanting sex (with anyone) - which is hugely simplistic and demeaning. The language of "trying it on" and "don't pester her" , and "bear the burden of his sexual demands" fills me with despair - surely two people (of either sex, straight or gay), should mutually enjoy closeness including sex. I guess my response to stress and tiredness is to seek reassurance in the arms of my partner SO I'm a little confused that isn't her response when overloaded.

The feedback on giving time alone, and random kisses in the day was good - but I'm a bit shy in daylight (pathetic I know)

My post was "Desire for Intimacy - reading the signals - always being ready". I was trying to communicate that men are also emotional creatures and not able to constantly be ready should their partner finally, randomly (to them) want closeness (doesn't always mean sex). The resultant ongoing frustration leads the man to withdraw and the vicious cycle repeats.

[jack45132]

Thanks badbaldingballerina123 for putting into words how this part of conversation made me feel

[HellKitty]

Don't go on another posters advice on just being platonic. That is the worst thing you could do. My ex would cuddle or kiss ONLY when he wanted sex, this made me resent him more. My DP now and myself are always cuddling, kissing and generally being soppy shites all the time. It doesn't mean it always leads to sex.

You need to be more affectionate without expecting anything. A kiss as she walks past, a hug or hand holding on the sofa. Holding her in bed without sex.

[jack45132]

arsenaltilidie and badbaldingballerina123

You are both spot on with how I feel. I feel myself changing from a vaguely charismatic confident man to being desperate and needy AND I don't like it AND I'm certain it isn't attractive. So my response to this will be to withdraw, perhaps go to the Gym, and do thing to feel good about myself again. This stage is just about making sure I've tried all avenues, and communicated clearly - remember my post was I'm in v.long relationship - and I am playing the long game. Just confused as to why a tired wife isn't keen for massage, cuddles, and sexual relied herself (to put it bluntly)

[jack45132]

HellKitty. Thanks for post. I do wish though we could get away from this concept about sex being something a women gives to a man, and a man is after!! Good sex should be great for both people, and should enrich the lives of both??

[OnIlkelyMoorBahtat]

"Of course no one thinks housework is sexy and of course the idea is to take the load off the wife so she has more energy for intimacy. That IS a covert contract if the Op is expecting sex as a result."

Well, yes, a person doing their share merely to get sex is not sexy. A person doing their share because they're responding to their partner's tiredness by trying to take the pressure off, that's pretty sexy; someone showing consideration for your needs, that's pretty sexy.

"Just confused as to why a tired wife isn't keen for massage, cuddles, and sexual relief herself".

When you asked your tired wife about this OP, what did she say?

[OnIlkelyMoorBahtat]

Oops, posted too early!

I meant to ask; are you saying when you go in for hug, she might reject you (if she doesn't want sex then) because she thinks you're giving her a hug only to get sex? Can you not actually be explicit and tell her that at that point - or at some points - you want to cuddle with her for comfort etc? Actually communicate that? And apols if you have been obvs, but wondering if that was worth a try in your communication?

[YonicSleighdriver]

What would you find really difficult to do if you were tired, OP? Learn a dance? Write a letter in French? Think of something.

Then whatever feeling you come up with, that may be how your wife feels about massage or sexual relief when she is tired. Those things would be relaxing for you if in that state, but they may not be for her. She may need to feel alert, engaged etc to get something out of those suggestions.

It's just a different response.

[Vivacia]

I'm a little confused that isn't her response when overloaded.

Well, different people react differently. Having young children can be very physical - you're mauled and pounded and grabbed and, well, literally sucked dry. It can be an onslaught of physical demands on top of the carrying, lifting, sleep deprivation etc that's just so draining that what you actually want is to be Alone and Not Touched.

But that's my take. What's your wife's take?

[HumblePieMonster]

jack45132 - you don't get it, do you?
i'll put this as simply as I can.

stop trying to make her responsible for your sexual fulfilment by blaming her for the lack of it.

you want her to service your desires. you're not even limiting this to physical desires, you have 'emotional' desires, you claim, that she is not meeting.

we've told you what to do. give her some space and be good to her.

Just confused as to why a tired wife isn't keen for massage, cuddles, and sexual relied [relief?] herself
because she's tired? why should she want you messing about with her? particularly if your 'massage' and 'cuddles' are actually demands for sex.

[jack45132]

HumplePieMonster - I think you're projecting your own problems..?

[jack45132]

OnIlkelyMoorBahtat. Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting. And I've been very explicit about it only being a hug.

Vivacia. Yes, good point. I daren't say the following, for fear of getting a mauling - but her stress levels are much better after sex...

YonicSleighdriver - Yes, another good point. Just to clarify the massage comes from me.

Can I re-iterate I am in a long term loving relationship, counted in decades. I am not some ape concerned solely with getting my end away. Believe it or not I see the pressures my other half is under, and see how a loving touch AND yes sex makes things better. Because I genuinely love my other half I actually try to put myself in her position and look for things to help her, and our relationship.