'D'H away - so peaceful but it's an illusion

[MrBusterIPresume]

‘D’H is a self-absorbed workaholic and (I think) EA – usually manifesting as an entitled attitude and lots of sly and/or passive–aggressive verbal digs. For the past 2 weeks he has been away travelling for work. It has been so restful, mentally and emotionally.

I haven’t caught myself watching the door, wondering what ridiculously late hour of the evening he’ll come home and make a face because his dinner is in the fridge to be heated up. I haven’t had that vaguely apprehensive feeling, wondering what sort of mood he’ll be in when he walks in or what has gone wrong for him that day. DCs and I have spent time at home without his perpetual presence at the computer ignoring us. I have planned outings with the DCs without that nagging feeling of resentment that I’m the only one that ever does organise things, and without anyone huffing and puffing or making little pointed comments about our plans. I have had more energy and have got a few outstanding household jobs out of the way. I have felt happy in my own company, relaxed, contented. DCs and I have been carrying on our lives as normal, just without him in it. It’s so tempting to think this is how it would be if we separated.

But it’s not, it’s an illusion. The reality of separation would be him being difficult, trying to manipulate the children, accusing me of all sorts. I know because I’ve had a taste of it when we’ve been close to the brink before. The reality would be cajoling DC1, who doesn’t like spending time with H, and DC2, who just wants to be with me, into going off to him for contact, and being accused of turning the DCs against him of they are reluctant to go. The reality would be major upheaval, a house move, new schools - we couldn’t afford for me and DCs to remain in our home, or even in the same area.

Don’t know why I’m posting, really. I think I just need to vent - it’s the sadness of realising that the past couple of weeks is how I’d really like my life to be, but I won’t have that even if I do screw up enough courage to ltb.

"he doesn't really dominate me. " --see in your op you admit he does dominate your every move - without him in the house you are "happy in my own company, relaxed, contented" ...him there - opposite.

however subtly he does dominate your every waking moment.

cestlavie, currently we have a large mortgage and the DCs are at fee-paying schools. There simply won't be enough money to sustain that and fund a separate home for H. Believe me, I go over and over various options, trying to see a way forward that preserves as much continuity as possible for the DCs.

Re the DCs and upheaval, I suppose I perceive having to move schools and leave friends behind as loss, and instinctively I try to protect my DCs from loss. It would be a loss for me too - much of my social life, such as it is, revolves around parents I know via school. We would all have to start again from scratch.

work it out practically. write it all down, how much does h earn, is he likely to continue working, what other funds do you have, pension funds, savings, ISAs et. how much equity on the house is there? what could that equity fund as deposit onto smaller porperties? how much is rent in area you would like to be? what work can you do? etcetcetc.... could your parents help with school fees for a while?
what are the local school options? how old are the dc anyway?

is private school the be all and end all for you?

is it the most important thing? if so you will find a way...

does h think they should be in private school? if so he will find a way to continue to pay...

if you have true good friends thru school they will stay in touch - if they random school parents and you have no other connection then you can easily replace them in new school.

the practical issues you can address one by one... write a list and work it out. this is your and dc lives you talking about - material things and private school will mean nothing long term if they screwed emotionally...

Children's friendships are often fleeting. The life lesson of a marriage with no respect or love will stay with your children always.
Don't sacrifice their long term wellbeing for the mney for school fees. Your husband will of course make a show of spending time with your DC but it will soon become a chore and his interest will wane.
You have given lots of small reasons for inaction. Your OP is a huge reason for action.

I agree with the others. I am separated at the moment and its not easy but my god, a weight has lifted. Dcs are resilient.

The reality of separation would be him being difficult, trying to manipulate the children, accusing me of all sorts. I know because I’ve had a taste of it when we’ve been close to the brink before. The reality would be cajoling DC1, who doesn’t like spending time with H, and DC2, who just wants to be with me, into going off to him for contact, and being accused of turning the DCs against him of they are reluctant to go. The reality would be major upheaval, a house move, new schools - we couldn’t afford for me and DCs to remain in our home, or even in the same area.

Yes, that is indeed the reality.
And it is entirely doable.

You're married, you get to stay in the family home, he will have to go. If he makes life difficult then deal with it as and when it comes up. You might get a temporary reprieve financially from school and if the worst comes to the worst you can put them into a State school. You will make new friends and you generally never lose old friends if they are good friends.

He will make life difficult but he might not, might just cut his losses. He will hate you but that's his problem. DCs will find a way of dealing with him. You could come to an arrangement of 'nesting' where DCs stay in the family home with Dad and you stay elsewhere for the time when he has contact. That way he will probably continue as before, ignoring them on the computer and won't do the competetive parenting thing. Things might remain as before.

I have a vivid memory of standing in my own little graden after DCs were in bed one night and hugging myself and laughing out loud. Just the release and the lightness and the joy of being away from him. It was years ago now but I remember that bubble of joy even now.
..and it was hard, new schools, new town. I knew no-one. It worked out well for me. Perhaps it would work out well for you too OP?

MrBuster, I think you have your kid's best interests at heart.
I don't think it's a question of private Vs public schools. The OP has said her kids are happy in the schools they are in, and have good social circles there.
I think you're doing a good job of limiting the damage they have (if any) from being exposed to a rather tense and toxic atmosphere, living with a workaholic.

I'm only sorry your own happiness is so far down the list MrBuster.
I think you've done very well by detaching and not getting riled up by his work addiction and the effects it's having on all of you.

Maybe talk with AlAnon for some advice about how to find space for yourself while living with an addict?

I think if the OP has said she's not ready to leave, and financially she's said she's not able, then we should listen to what she's saying, and stop advising her to do so, no matter how strongly we feel, and whatever our own experiences.

Momb - what a lovely post. That's a great way to describe the feeling, "bubble of joy." My bubble of joy was many years ago now, I still smile when I think of it.

"trying to see a way forward that preserves as much continuity as possible for the DCs."

Sometimes, you can't avoid a disruption in continuity. Making omelettes involves breaking eggs. This is not the end of the world. Children IME are quite resilient and realistic if given the chance. They derive security not necessarily from living in the same house or going to the same school but from knowing they are loved and that the people around them are happy.

Just some thoughts...

Surely he can't be happy living like this either? Doesn't he want more from his own life? Why is he so opposed to splitting (which I garnered from the making things difficult re access buit of your OP) if both of you are miserable? How does he see the future (for you both and him individually)?

Hi OP,

Sorry you are living with this.

You love your DCs and you sound like a bloody brilliant mother. And I can see you have gone over and over the possibilities of a life separated from this abusive man. Unfortunately most of the dis-benefits of separation are countable and measurable - smaller house, less money, great upheaval, different schools etc. and all the benefits are virtually unquantifiable - what price can you put on a 'bubble of joy' amid all the shite that is likely to pour down on your head?

You are right to be careful. But...your children deserve to have you intact and happy. You might be strong for them, but you are not happy. Is survival all you require? You deserve so much more.

The picture you paint of deciding to struggle on is of a pretty barren landscape. Yes you will make it as happy as possible for your DCs, but it is going to be soul-destroying and, above all, a performance. A fake self that you are going to present to the world? It is exhausting and dehumanising and depressing not being true to yourself. Is that where you want your energy to go for the next few years? And then what happens after that? When will you get away from this man?

I have no agenda. Really. I just see you consigning yourself to misery and thinking that is best for your children. Perhaps you're forgetting how much reciprocation there is with your children. They live with this. They see it. It is 'the weather' in your home. They love you, they desperately want you to be happy. They witness you trying to protect them, defend them, take the flak and generally put yourself between them and their father in order to keep them 'happy'. Do you think they want this? How do they feel about your emotional suffering? It must be agony seeing you try to cope with this bully.

Your H will still exist when he is an XH. He will still be as shitty and angry and miserable as he is now. He will hate you just as much if not more, and he will accuse you of breaking up the marriage and destroying the children's lives. He won't take any responsibility for killing the love between you. He won't try to salvage respect or fairness. He will accuse you of being a terrible, selfish mother who doesn't care about her children. He will be obstructive, vexatious and hostile when you take out divorce proceedings against him. He will tell the children lies about you. He will be a massive arsehole. But the truth is, he is already a massive arsehole and he is living with you!

Your children have already clocked their father for a mean and miserable man who they don't want to spend time with. I think, however hard it is, they will thank you for removing him from their home.

p.s. I had that vexatious and hostile divorce process meted out to me and it took three years to get a decress absolute. (Wish I gone in with a hardball solicitor at the beginning, as it would have been no less horrible but a lot shorter - but that's another story). My bubble of joy comes every evening around 6 o'clock when everyone's safely in and I'm running a bath for the tikes and I latch the front door. Everytime I do that I feel safe and secure and know that no-one else is coming in tonight. That is a good feeling.

p.p.s. Sorry for going on.... you don't say in your posts whether you have friends/family/support in real life with whom to discuss this. Do you have people close to you that you can canvas? It would really help if you haven't done so already.

He delights in telling the DCs violent or unpleasant details about the plots of adult films (as in for an adult audience, not X-rated) and teaching them inappropriate quotations. He ignores me when I ask him to stop because the things he's talking about are not age-appropriate - in fact often he will quite deliberately continue in a "look, you can't stop me" way

Hold on a minute - just picked this up - this is emotionally abusing the children. It's a veiled attempt at threatening their welfare to keep you onside. Did you watch Panorama yesterday? The poor broken woman actually had her children taken into care in order to protect them from him. She felt scared to leave because he would force them to stay with him. Terrifying but not far off your situation, the same principles are involved. Divide and conquer. Bastards.

How old are the DC? If over 10-ish, I think their wishes regarding contact with their father would be respected by a court. Is this right anyone?

Could you not move to a smaller property near you to reduce mortgage? Ask the school about financial assistance?

Him telling them age-inappropriate stuff is abusive. You should keep a record of all the things he has said, with dates if poss.

venus - sometimes the challenging questions can make one evaluate the reasons not to do something - if op is thinking everything thru and then deciding no she aint moving, that's fine...

it was a counsellor who asked me - where will you be in five years time? and I said well not living with P for sure, he doesn't like me is always critical etc...she asked, "why wait?" - she didn't TELL me what to do but she raised in my mind the possibility to do something, then, at that moment...then it was simply a matter of practicalities...... that is what we are all doing with op - challenging her perceptions of the reasons to stay...opening up the possibility.. practical matters can be dealt with.

it is and will be her choice. she indicates she wants to leave - she is having a relaxed and happy time purely because her h is not there... but thinks she cannot... yet her reasons to not leave are surmountable...she is from a presumably reasonably well off marriage, paying private school etc...so not same as someone with nothing at all. if she takes the school fees, that will pay rent...

Willkommen - indeed - op you could call nspcc and talk this thru in detail, see what they advise.

Right, I'm back (had to do some actual work as opposed to trying to sort my life out via MN).

My bubble of joy comes every evening around 6 o'clock when everyone's safely in and I'm running a bath for the tikes and I latch the front door. Every time I do that I feel safe and secure and know that no-one else is coming in tonight. That is a good feeling.

God, I can identify with that, Poppy. I've done exactly that every night while H has been away - latched the door and put on the chain and thought "That's it, it's just us and no-one else will come in and disturb the evening." It is a good feeling.

No family here, am an expat. Parents try to be supportive from a distance and I'm sure they have my best interests at heart, but I sense that they just don't get it. H chats to them and is all polite and self-effacing and they just don't see the side of him that I see. Actually they feel sorry for him because MIL is such a complete fucking nightmare. I have friends but no-one I can really tell all this to. I had counselling (on my own) for a few months last year which helped in terms of having someone to vent to, but didn't get me any closer to action. I suspect the counsellor didn't quite get it either.

I'm sure H isn't happy living like this. However, it suits him because muggins does 95% of the childcare and domestic work, and if he lived separately he'd actually have to look after himself. Much easier to be a workaholic when someone else does all the cooking and runs the house (it probably won't be a surprise that I also work ft). Also, I have come to the conclusion that due to his personality, he is unlikely to ever be happy. He is perpetually dissatisfied with life, work, his colleagues. Nothing makes him happy - I suspect because the source of his unhappiness has its roots in his dysfunctional childhood, and that isn't fixed by working harder, earning more, or achieving career success.

DCs are under 10, so their wishes are unlikely to be taken into account re contact.

The "where do you see yourself in 5 years' time" question is interesting. I can't imagine growing old with H. In fact one of my lightbulb moments was when I overheard someone at work talking about all the plans he and his wife had for travelling etc. in retirement, and I just thought "That will never be us, H just wouldn't plan and look forward to things like that". So if I'm going to leave sometime, why not sooner rather than later? It's tricky though. In a few years time it is quite likely that I will have been promoted and earn enough to make separation more financially viable. I don't want to look back and regret that I left too soon and had to make changes that wouldn't have been necessary if I'd waited a little longer. But then then I also don't want to regret that I left it too long and wasted time I could have spent more happily.

See, I'm still chasing my tail. I know it's probably frustrating to read but I really value all of your contributions, especially those from people who've been through it and come out the other side.

I don't want to look back and regret that I left too soon and had to make changes that wouldn't have been necessary if I'd waited a little longer. But then then I also don't want to regret that I left it too long and wasted time I could have spent more happily.

Having been through it myself, and been around long enough to hear others' tales, I can tell you that the number 1 regret of anyone who has left an unsatisfactory relationship is "I wish I had left sooner."

There is no perfect time. There is only the fear of the unknown, and then the leap you take on the day you're finally ready to take it.

Not that surprised to read that you also work ft.

Not at all surprised to learn that you have a nightmare MIL and that he had a dysfunctional childhood. What's that Philip Larkin poem about man handing on misery to man ?............

I too don't want to be one shouting LTB if you're not at that place yet. But I probably left my EA relationship about 10 years too late - we were together 11 years.

your h can easily hire a maid/housekeeper to keep him and do his housework. he doesn't need you - but probably on some level enjoys having a trophy "wife" to do all this. suits him doesn't it? when he needs to talk about his wife and kids to the boss?

so you work. you have an income. nothing stopping you.

"nothing makes him happy". no--and once you realise that nothing you do will ever make him happy is another light bulb moment... he will be unhappy with you; he will be unhappy without you...you, otoh...

also moving now before they move to secondary, not a bad idea. the younger the more adaptable they are... a few years is not a lot in your life but an awfully long time in theirs...

do some drawing out work with them, open ended questions, let's draw our house our family. if you could choose then what is your ideal Christmas day, what would your breakfast, lunch dinner look like? what is your favourite activity on the weekend? this Saturday I'd like you each to choose your favourite activity -what is it and who is involved? what's your best holiday? [who was there]
let's see, where we would like to live in few years time, where would you live when you grow up (do they say with mum, with dad ?) what is your ideal house, let's draw a picture - who is living there?

who is your favourite friend, why? whose house do u like visiting, why? who would your ideal mum and dad be if you could choose anyone? how many children do you want to have when you grow up? why? what would you do with them?

all these kind of talking/drawing "games" can give you real insight into how they view things....

another drawing game that can be revealing is asking them to create a family shield/crest - what words or images go in there? what comes from dad, what comes from mum?

You need to take care of yourself. If you don't who will? Look after your needs first and foremost, and then you'll have more to share with those around you. Good luck with this.

OP if you leave you will doubtless give your children two gifts beyond price: you will teach them that emotional abuse is not acceptable. And give them a mum who is happy. Both of these are extremely important gifts, worth more surely than a private education.

You will also give yourself a gift beyond price: the chance to live an authentic life.

I was in your shoes, OP. After kicking him out I lived in a bubble of joy that lasted a year.

Prior to my split my own kids lived in a similar atmosphere. I kidded myself that they thought I was ultimately in control of everything, making up for his shortcomings by being emotionally available to my children and functional. I was deluded: when asked who was in charge of the house my kids were in no doubt: HE was in charge by virtue if dominating (and sucking the joy out of) EVERYTHING

OP, have you been on the stately homes thread? A happy home is far more important to a child than being at a fee paying school. If your DH is emotionally abusing you and your DCs you need to put material considerations to one side and formulate a plan to leave. Easier said than done I'm sure, but that's what it comes down to.

The school issue always gives the wrong impression, which is why When I post about this I don't tend to spell it out in my OP.

It really, really isn't a case of "They're at a fee-paying school and it's very important to me that they go to a fee-paying school." They are at a school where they are happy and thriving, and it is very important to me that they go to a school where they are happy and thrive. It just happens that at the moment that school is fee-paying. I would feel exactly the same if the school in question was a state primary. Ironically, if it was a state primary there would be a far greater chance of moving to cheaper accommodation within commuting distance rand keeping them at the same school.