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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Friend engaged to EA partner.

78 replies

Playthegameout · 02/12/2014 19:58

I've worried about posting this just in case but I don't really know what to do anymore, so here goes. Not NC'd as I know there's been some disingenuous threads recently. Please bear with me apologies for length.

A very good friend of mine met her fiancé 13 years ago. We are part of a friendship group of over 15 years. None of her friends met him until they'd been together for around a year. In all honesty many of us were not very keen on him, as when he did finally agree to meet us, he got extremely drunk and said some not very nice things to her (he said she was stupid/a bimbo. Nothing could be further from the truth as she is a very well educated professional).

We noticed our friend stopped coming out with us. At first we accepted she was loved up etc with her partner, but over time it became clear he was telling her when she could/couldn't go out. He had also suggested she changed her appearance. She is striking and taller than him. He suggested she cut and dye her hair, only wear flat shoes, nothing fitted etc.

Another very close friend and I spoke to her as gently as possible about our concerns. She was very defensive and said she was "well aware" but that she made allowances because he had had a very difficult upbringing and had also had access to his children (from a previous relationship) denied.

After 11 years he allowed her to move into his house. She began to pay the mortgage and for most of the bills. He will not entertain adding her name to the mortgage. After she moved in he stopped going to work, she told us he was too depressed to work, but would not see his GP as he didn't trust doctors.

He has lived entirely on her salary for 2 years. He has final say on everything she does. She openly admits he calls her names, drinks heavily and has been violent. She absolutely insists she loves him and will not leave him. She has explicitly said she is happy to call time on any friendship if anyone continues to criticise him. They got engaged in summer. We have no idea what to do. The rest of us are all married and have kids, she has wanted to get married and have a family for a long time, we're all mid/late 30s and I know her age troubles Her. I got her a congratulations card but it is utterly awful trying to pretend to be happy about this.

Question is how do we/I support her? She says she wants us to be happy for her, I just can't see how.

OP posts:

SlimJiminy · 03/12/2014 12:01

I was in a very similar situation to you op and I very nearly reached the end of my tether with my best friend. It's so sad/frustrating/heartbreaking, etc, when someone you care about so much is treated like shit time and time again by the same person. My friend was also engaged and I also bought her a congratulations card and when she text to tell me about her "exciting" news, I replied with something along the lines of "eeeek!! How exciting!! So happy for you both!!". Then cried to my mum. I even agreed to be her bridesmaid, because I knew how much it meant to her. I despised him.

She knew I couldn't stand him, but there had been too many times where they'd split up, I'd tell her exactly what I thought, then they'd get back together again. So in the end I gave in - went along with it - avoided him as much as I could and tolerated him when I had to, made excuses to leave if I could, etc...

I don't know how I'd have coped watching my best friend marry an utter cockwomble because thankfully it didn't happen - she saw the light and walked away before it came to that. Other friends distanced themselves from her and I just couldn't bear the thought of her being completely alone with no-one else to turn to but him, so I stuck with her. I'm just glad she saw sense when she did because it was hard and tiring and tedious being there for her throughout those 6 years. Really fucking hard to stand back and watch from the sidelines.

I really feel for you op - but I think you just need to leave her to it now (respect her decision I mean, not end the friendship). You've made your feelings clear and she knows how you feel about him. You'll only drive her away if you keep on about it. Nothing you say or do will change how she feels about him. Just don't be sucked into their break-up/make-up cycle. You can be there for her without taking on the burden of her crappy relationship.

GoatsDoRoam · 03/12/2014 12:33

You can't save her or make her see sense, so your only decision now is to do what sits right with you :

Is it to stay there for her, and bite your tongue a lot?

Or is it to say your piece, and let her decide whether she chooses to cut ties with you on the strength of that?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/12/2014 12:42

I feel your pain Playthegameout - I had the same with an old friend who hooked up with an elderly, sly, very ill guy who's manipulative/abusive in the extreme. Since her father was always the same, it wasn't too surprising

I wouldn't worry too much about the engagement as he probably won't give away any rights by marrying her; mine's been "engaged" for 8 years now and took to spouting nonsense about not actually wanting to get married - "no honest, it doesn't worry me" - in some desperate attempt to defend him

In the end I'm afraid I had to let the friendship go; there's only so long you can support someone who's determined to damage themselves, and frankly the "emotional vampirism" was draining me. Maybe you could leave the door open a little so she'd have support if she ever comes to her senses - but then you'd have to decide what you'd do when the next disaster happened

GoatsDoRoam · 03/12/2014 13:36

I had a couple conversations with a friend of mine in an EA relationship where I felt that she was taking on board the fact that his behaviour was unacceptable. But then she would just behave like the conversations had never happened, and now is TTC with him.

So now, if I can I will make statements like "that's not all right" or "how does that make you feel?" when she reports his shit behaviour, but leave it at that. It's rare, though. She's a little miss perfect who's always putting a smiling face on everything.

And I have also stopped inviting her to things I organise since she ends up bringing him round. That's my limit. It's sad that I'm excluding my friend, but I draw the line at having her boyfriend in my house.

specialsubject · 03/12/2014 13:49

how desperately sad. And for so long.

all you can do is tell it straight; 'I am so sad that you are marrying a violent drunken, ignorant parasite and paying for him to be like that. If you need help to escape, I'm here' (If you want to risk that).

this will not be well received but if she is mentally competent she has the right to destroy herself. If she cuts you off (as she probably will) then you've done all you can.

I can only hope she doesn't get pregnant to this man, bringing a child into this. I also hope he doesn't kill her.

simontowers2 · 03/12/2014 15:06

Yes but this woman has threaten to cut people off who criticise this dickhead. Does being in an abusive necessarily have to extend to treating your mates like this? Not everything can be blamed on the abuse. Maybe she has more in common with this guy than people are assuming.

Jupitersmoon · 03/12/2014 15:29

I'm going through the same thing with my sister, (other thread here if you want to read www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2246945-My-sister-is-in-an-abusive-relationship?) She had a day of what I saw as clarity where she told me everything and even contacted the police about the violence. Now however, she says that everything she said/did that day was done in anger (it really wasn't- she was upset and in shock) and that I shouldn't listen to it. She's gone back to deluded-brainwash mode and thinks that 'he can work on his issues and change'.
I can't imagine the thought of being in the same room as him and neither can my family. It's so difficult!

SlimJiminy · 03/12/2014 15:45

simon many abusers manipulate their victims into cutting off their support network. It's textbook stuff.

simontowers2 · 03/12/2014 16:24

So you are saying her friends should make allowances for her behaviour because she is being abused?

Original poster

Playthegameout · 03/12/2014 16:28

I'm really grateful for the support, really. I know their relationship is none of my business and she must make her own decisions but it doesn't stop me and her other friends really worrying. slim that's exactly how it is. They split, we all say 'he treats you like crap' she agrees for a millisecond and then goes back. It's maddening.

I have no idea of the time frame of the wedding, at first she said summer 2016, but she hasn't said a word about it since the engagement, which is very odd as she spoke so often about wanting to be engaged prior to it happening.

On Thursday I'm hoping I'll have worked out a way to say what I want to say without it being too painful, for either of us.

OP posts:

Original poster

Playthegameout · 03/12/2014 16:31

Simon I think slim is trying to say it's hard to understand the level of control exerted by an abuser. I don't believe my friend wants to be like this, more that she has been conditioned to be. I understand to you it would be a cut and dried decision, unfortunately I'm not as decisive.

OP posts:

Legionofboom · 03/12/2014 16:58

I have no real advice but I do empathise. I have a friend who has been in an abusive, sometimes violent relationship for about 5 years now.

I know that it is the abuse that makes her act as she does but it is very, very hard to stand by and watch someone behave in a way that you would never have expected them to. She is a different person and not one I really like very much at the moment.

I find it almost impossible. It is her life and her choice, although I strongly suspect she may well make a different choice if she were not so scared. But either way, it is a tricky balance between not alienating her and remaining a source of support while not compromising my beliefs and values. And it is only getting more difficult.

Sadly I expect it will not end well for her, one way or another. I hope I am wrong.

So, so sad that so many people are going through this

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE · 03/12/2014 17:09

simon you clearly have no understanding of abusive relationships.

OP I'm afraid it is going to be a case of her having to figure it out herself. Even when she does figure it out, she still may not be able to leave him They give you hope that you can 'save' them from their 'horrible' past, this keeps you trying and trying even when it is blatantly obvious to everyone else that it is never going to happen.

SlimJiminy · 03/12/2014 17:13

So you are saying her friends should make allowances for her behaviour because she is being abused?

That's precisely what I'm saying, yes.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/12/2014 17:20

She hasn't said a word about (the wedding) since the engagement, which is very odd as she spoke so often about wanting to be engaged prior to it happening

That's perfectly understandable if he has no intention of marrying her; since he seems to have your friend exactly where he wants her without that, why would he care about it?

I believe you said it's 13 years since she met him? She could easily waste another 13 on him with no chance at all, or she could finally decide she deserves better. Unfortunately, you really can't force her to make the right choice

Original poster

Playthegameout · 03/12/2014 17:22

It's awful to know so many are in the same position, abuse is so much more prevalent than I ever realised. jupiters I did read your thread, how is your sister? It's gutting to hear she went back.

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 03/12/2014 17:24

So you are saying her friends should make allowances for her behaviour because she is being abused?

I'm not sure this board is the best fit for you, Simon

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE · 03/12/2014 17:27

Play, it is awful I am two years out of an abusive relationship and still effectively 'controlled' by him. Even if they do split, it will take time for her to be 'normal' again. I am starting the process of trying to re-wire my brain back to who I was before.

trackrBird · 03/12/2014 17:31

She was very defensive and said she was "well aware" but that she made allowances because he had had a very difficult upbringing

I wish your friend knew what an old chestnut this is: and how it's calculated to trap her, and have her accept his abuse on the basis that 'he can't help it'.

I wish she would also view this TED talk by Leslie Morgan Steiner:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=V1yW5IsnSjo

Ms Steiner suffered abuse, but says she didn't once think of herself as a battered woman. Instead, she saw herself as a strong woman, in love with a deeply troubled man, and that she was the only person who could help him.

...I very much sympathise with you, Play. I know all too well what you are going through and how helpless you can feel.

Jupitersmoon · 03/12/2014 17:36

OP she's adamant that things will change and the rest of us will look back in years to come and realise that she was right to stay with him. Oh how I wish this will be the case but unfortunately my instincts tell me otherwise. I've ordered her a copy of Lundy Bancroft's WHY DOES HE DO THAT? and am prepared to have it thrown back in my face. I find it so hard to just stand back...

It's heartbreaking that this is so common

Original poster

Playthegameout · 03/12/2014 17:36

puds I'm so sorry for what you've been through, and to others who have posted. Thank you for sharing your experiences, it's really positive to know people have come out the other side.
track that video is incredible, wondering now if I could just send her the link and ask her to watch it? Or maybe find some gentle way to encourage her to see it?

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 03/12/2014 17:40

I haven't watched all the video but I assume it demonstrates that often abused women look like strong women on the outside

they have to be to cope with the daily strain of keeping up appearances and finding ever more inventive ways to "manage" the abuser

it is also true that abusers make a beeline for strong women because there is more satisfaction in taking them down

the stereotype of the cowed, bruised, tearful mouse is often very far from the outward persona

Phoenixfrights · 03/12/2014 17:41

How awful :(

She must know that courts order non-contact with children primarily when there is evidence of abuse?

Svengali-figures can convince very intelligent people that a square is a circle. Unfortunately.

Phoenixfrights · 03/12/2014 17:43

If you send her the video link, make sure it is to an account he has no access to.

SlimJiminy · 03/12/2014 17:54

Yep, my friend is a prison officer - she's assertive/resilient/strong on a daily basis. She's even done voluntary work helping victims of abuse - she knew what the signs were but she still struggled to leave.

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