Snooping: Acceptable in some circumstances or not on?

[Icelander]

Greetings Mumsnet, I'm new here and have spent a few days trawling around this site and lurking my way through an unhealthy number of threads on this board. I must say I am fascinated and have really enjoyed getting an inside look at human interaction that is quite different to what I'm used to!

I note that it is viewed as basically normal and acceptable behaviour by posters here for a wife or girlfriend to look through her SOs email, search and page visit history, and text conversations etc in an attempt to confirm certain suspicions that they harbour. I say this because I have encountered reports of this behaviour in many threads and not once have I read a poster having the opinion that this is a serious breach of privacy, disrespectful, or a betrayal of trust. I'm sure some hold this opinion, but I would imagine it is a small minority based on my own impressions of what I've read.

I am genuinely amazed by this and am trying to reach across the gender chasm in hope of being able to better understand where you're coming from. It has really been shocking to me because I have broken it off with two getting-close-to-being-serious women for this exact reason. I thought that there was really something there with the latest one too. But I don't think that I could possibly be in a serious relationship with someone that invades my privacy and disrespects me like that. It would be a deal-breaker for me, but it isn't something I would set out as terms at the beginning of our dating or something like that as it just seems obvious to me that this is relationship ending material and that anyone can see that it's totally unacceptable and would expect things to be over and finished if caught doing that.

Before reading through this site I would have thought that the vast majority of people would have agreed with me, but now I see that I was mistaken. What am I to make of this? Am I being unreasonable? Is it likely that any partner I have, even the mother of my own children, is going to snoop if the chance is open and its unlikely that they will be discovered? I must say this is quite unsettling to me ... deeply disturbing actually, and would very much appreciate any viewpoints or stories about the matter. Thanks in advance.

The lesson of Bluebeard is - girls, always take the key and open the door you were told not to open, lest the room contains the bodies of murdered former wives.

actually I think most people here really don't like people snooping. There's a lot of posts usually about "you shouldn't have been snooping".

Having said that ... when someone does snoop and actually finds something like clear evidence of an affair, then somehow another perspective suddenly slides into place. It becomes a grey area. No you definitely shouldn't snoop. But neither should someone lie, deceive and cheat.

Which is worse? is it even a relevant question because when you find evidence of an affair, suddenly other thigns become way more relevant like How Do You Divide the Assets or possibly How Do You Recover Trust (perhaps on both sides but most people see cheating as worse than snooping, though neither's good).

But if I found a bf lookign through my stuff, they'd be out on their ear. Or opening my post etc. I mean, if you're expecting a parcel for you both and it happened to be my name on it, i wouldn't mind him opening it. But actively looking thru my texts? No.

No, always there has been grounds in the snoopers eyes. As for me, if I suspected that my partner was cheating on me then I'll tell you what I'd do. I'd say to her 'Is anything going on between you and So - and - So?' and if she said 'No honey it's all in your head, we're just friends, don't be silly I love you etc' then that would put my fears to bed, in all likelihood.

I don't think I'd ever suspect cheating due to ambiguous things like she's not spending enough time with me, or she isn't texting me very often these days or she 'seems a bit off' whatever the hell that means, but I admit I could conjure up some extreme circumstances where I would certainly be tempted to peek. I doubt I would though.

Spot on re bluebird. I don't mean to be rude but do you come across as a bit creepy? I ask because girls don't usually snoop that early on in a relationship... not in my experience. But they will always have a good look around your house, so if you have lots of true crime stories on display, or appear to have any other strange interests..the phone will be next.

Bluebeard !

Do you mean that your girlfriends snooped on you because you seemed a bit off, etc.?

I asked my husband what was going on; he lied. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He sat on the sofa next to our daughter texting the woman, and she caught a glimpse of what he wrote. I told him what she said she saw, and she said she'd got it wrong, or it was a joke, or I didn't understand in the context. I couldn't prove he was lying. Cheaters lie; they'd be rubbish cheaters otherwise.

Sounds like I'm encouraging you to snoop! These days I'd probably go along with the Mumsnet mantra that if you're that suspricious, the relationship is probably dead anyway. (Isn't that the usual advice, rather than "Sure, snoop!"?) But I wasn't on Mumsnet at the time!

'Is anything going on between you and So - and - So?' and if she said 'No honey it's all in your head, we're just friends, don't be silly I love you etc' then that would put my fears to bed, in all likelihood.

... the first line of defense of a cheater is to lie.

And everyone knows that.

I'm not saying it's right but you can see how the temptation to snoop would happen then. Mind you lots of people feel curious about other people's private stuff anyway!

But you were originally talking about less extreme circumstances, just everyday stuff. In those situations there is no grey area at all.

I wouldn't look around anyone's house (except the public places) at the start of a relationship. If I saw lots of true crime stories, I'd ask him about them, and if he seemed creepy, I'd not meet up with him again.

What about what I said comes across as creepy? I like my private things to remain private, this is true. My general interests are nothing bizarre, science, history, sports, politics... stuff of that nature. Is it just that your honest to god reaction to a man who does not want to give total access to every nook and cranny of his life for constant monitoring is that this makes you suspect that there is something to hide? If so then it's you that is slightly creepy, or crazy tbf.

Well, we are women, so obviously a totally different species ...

I think you have misunderstood the point about creepiness. One poster asked if you might come across as creepy, and explained how that might trigger a response of suspicion. No-one said you were creepy. You seem quite the suspicious type yourself...

Ravenmum, I was referring to justification that I've read in other threads that 'he seemed a bit off', always along with other factors however, as a justification for snooping.

hmmm.... I think most women do open bathroom cabinets etc and on that basis if I have a date I have always been careful what I leave lying around the house. Including easily accessible drawers and cupboards. I wouldn't want them to get the right impression. I have four sisters, 3 snoop and one would leave anyone who snooped on her in a heartbeat. I find phone snooping very intrusive before the 6 month mark at least. Thats what makes me think you are giving off strange signals.

Oh yes, those other threads ... Iceland, huh? Bye...

As for me, if I suspected that my partner was cheating on me then I'll tell you what I'd do. I'd say to her 'Is anything going on between you and So - and - So?' and if she said 'No honey it's all in your head, we're just friends, don't be silly I love you etc' then that would put my fears to bed, in all likelihood.

I can see why one of your exes wondered if you were Aspie, because most people would not take that denial literally OP. That's what a cheater would say so it wouldn't resolve anything,

It sounds to me like you have trouble reading people and social situations and may well not be communicating successfully in your relationships.

Well I said that a woman assuring me that there was no cheating going on would in all likelihood put any fears I had to bed. So that's kind of the opposite of the suspicious type. I probably misinterpreted what QueenofWands meant. If a man assures you that he is not cheating I assume this in no way taken as evidence that indeed he is not, as cheaters would always lie (as said above)? If so, what is the point of the question?

Yes those other threads ravenmum, I made explicit reference to other threads in the OP, that's kind of what this thread was about; my reaction to the viewpoints that I'd read about on this site and how surprised I was at the divergence from my own.

Is it just that your honest to god reaction to a man who does not want to give total access to every nook and cranny of his life for constant monitoring is that this makes you suspect that there is something to hide? If so then it's you that is slightly creepy, or crazy tbf.

Put it this way - 2 women a week are killed by their partner or ex partner, 20% of violent incidents reported to the police is domestic violence. Most rape victims are raped by someone known to them.

Women's physical safety depends on checking out a new partner, that they are who they say they are, that they are safe and have no violent inclinations or perversions.

As long as you come across as straightforward and honest, well-adjusted, well-behaved etc, then there's no reason for anyone to check up on you.

If there's something in your behaviour that makes a woman unsure, uncomfortable, suspicious, then they may well check up on you.

If you don't like that you need to address what you are doing that is making these gfs feel uneasy.

BTW I do think you sound a bit creepy in tone but I was too polite to say so openly. Seriously you do come across as a bit uptight. I think I would be looking for the keys before I invested too heavily in a relationship with you. So I suppose what I am saying is that something about you seems odd enough for women to step outside of the dating norms. Why don't you ask them what it is?

It boils down to this OP. If it's a deal breaker for you it's a deal breaker. You are completely justified to end any relationship for whatever reason you like. However, you may well cut your nose off to spite your face in the process.

Every person is flawed, none of us are without fault but generally speaking people aren't 100% unforgiving of their partners. In your position at the point of realising the snooping I would have spoken to and reassured my partner and then made it clear where I stand on the snooping. If my feelings were disregarded again at that point I may consider ending the relationship.

You sound very unforgiving if I'm honest and whilst your views are black and white the world and others just aren't.

If you are adamant that it's a deal breaker for you then fair enough, but be prepared for otherwise good relationships of yours to crumble. It may not be the norm but lots of people do it.

I can't comprehend how anybody would see their privacy as more important than their partners feelings?

If I going my partner snooping, I'd not be angry, I'd be as reassuring as I could be and really sad that something wasn't right so want to fix it.

If I was more bothered about the snooping that would be an indicator of how little I thought of him.

Actually I think Icelander is getting a bit of a rough reception here. Maybe I'm an odd woman, but in a new relationship I would never dream of looking through bathroom cabinets, or opening drawers unless I had a reason to; if washing and drying dishes I'd open drawers and cupboards to put them away, but I'd never look in The Drawer of Doom (don't we all have one?) unless told/asked to.

Perhaps because so much of my work has involved being in the homes of relative strangers, I have a higher sense of respecting the privacy of others.

If I were with a new partner who made me feel uneasy, suspicious or whatever, I'd leave and end the relationship. I wouldn't go snooping. That's my "line in the sand".

Sorry I missed the spectrum bit. Apologies if that applies, and I don't mean that sarcastically.

Routine, regular snooping with either no justification/constant accusations = end of a relationship in my eyes. Jealousy, insecurity, control issues are all red flags.

A little bit of snooping with reasonable suspicion = justified in my opinion.

I have snooped a couple of times in my life. One man was messing me around and one night, I'd slept over at his. I couldn't sleep and his phone pinged next to me at 3am. I picked it up and saw, without needing to unlock the phone, it was from another woman who was confirming arrangements to meet up and stay over with lots of xxx at the end. I got dressed and left, never to speak to him again. Bullet dodged.
On the second occasion, it was at the end of a long term live-in relationship. Things were off, I couldn't put my finger on it. I checked his emails and lo and behold, he'd joined a whole bunch of dating websites and had sent emails to his friends slagging me off. I moved out the next day. Both situations totally justified in my opinion.

I'm married now and I trust my DH 100%. He has never given me cause to worry. I don't snoop. However, I also know that if either of us asked to see anything, because they were concerned or worried or feeling a bit off - the other would allow any access necessary to calm the other's fears and reassure them. He can pick up my phone any time he likes. He knows all my passwords. I also play games on his phone sometimes, I know his passwords. We have nothing to hide from each other. Therefore snooping isn't necessary.

If you are cagey about your phone, elusive, secretive or give cause for concern and they're otherwise normal, rational women then the problem is likely to be you IMO. Or, it may be that you've been involved with very jealous and insecure women. Who knows?

Personally I think a bit of snooping might well be perfectly justified.

If you felt that you had legitimate justification to snoop, did so, but found no evidence that anything was off and then later had your prior fears of infidelity alleviated, would you then admit to your SO that you had invaded their privacy? Or would you think to yourself, no harm no foul, what he doesn't know won't hurt him... I was only checking up for the good of our relationship after all, it's best if he never knows? Because that is the kind of dishonest behaviour that I often see women berate men for. There is a double standard at work here, no?

How can women berate men for behaviour of which they have no knowledge?