Snooping: Acceptable in some circumstances or not on?

[Icelander]

Greetings Mumsnet, I'm new here and have spent a few days trawling around this site and lurking my way through an unhealthy number of threads on this board. I must say I am fascinated and have really enjoyed getting an inside look at human interaction that is quite different to what I'm used to!

I note that it is viewed as basically normal and acceptable behaviour by posters here for a wife or girlfriend to look through her SOs email, search and page visit history, and text conversations etc in an attempt to confirm certain suspicions that they harbour. I say this because I have encountered reports of this behaviour in many threads and not once have I read a poster having the opinion that this is a serious breach of privacy, disrespectful, or a betrayal of trust. I'm sure some hold this opinion, but I would imagine it is a small minority based on my own impressions of what I've read.

I am genuinely amazed by this and am trying to reach across the gender chasm in hope of being able to better understand where you're coming from. It has really been shocking to me because I have broken it off with two getting-close-to-being-serious women for this exact reason. I thought that there was really something there with the latest one too. But I don't think that I could possibly be in a serious relationship with someone that invades my privacy and disrespects me like that. It would be a deal-breaker for me, but it isn't something I would set out as terms at the beginning of our dating or something like that as it just seems obvious to me that this is relationship ending material and that anyone can see that it's totally unacceptable and would expect things to be over and finished if caught doing that.

Before reading through this site I would have thought that the vast majority of people would have agreed with me, but now I see that I was mistaken. What am I to make of this? Am I being unreasonable? Is it likely that any partner I have, even the mother of my own children, is going to snoop if the chance is open and its unlikely that they will be discovered? I must say this is quite unsettling to me ... deeply disturbing actually, and would very much appreciate any viewpoints or stories about the matter. Thanks in advance.

God now you sound patronising to boot. So women aren't normal, and you are and you're faintly condescending?

Maybe I would give an 'if this happens again it's over talk as it really is not ok to me' talk, but I'm just finding it hard to work out why I should have to?

Come on Icelander let's think about it - what are the options here:

1. All women are snoopers naturally and without suspicion they will trawl emails and phones. Well we can discount this because it's obviously not true as this thread shows.

1. You are choosing to date women who are naturally insecure and naturally inclined to snoop. Possible. What do you think? Do you gravitate towards more vulnerable insecure women? Do you have a history of relationships with women whose previous relationships were abusive or mistrusting?

1. You are dating women who are not naturally insecure but something in the way you are behaving is provoking insecurity in them to the point where they feel they need to check up on you. Possible. If it's happening repeatedly, also worth considering.

1. You've just had a run of bad luck dating natural snoopers. Doubtful as repetition of the same issue seems more than a coincidence.

Actually I just got it. You are superior male and the wee wimmins are to be belittled, laughed at and patted on the head.

I'm out. Before I say something I'll regret.

Frau, yeah I've been told that I lack empathy, but it's hard to know because you only have your own point of view right? One girlfriend called me borderline Aspy.

Montha, no I haven't ever snooped the mail, text etc of another person... actually I read my sisters diary when I was a little boy but I'm not sure if that counts.

I like the way you put that SelfLoathing. I suppose that category 2 and 3 both play a part. I never actually spend time analyzing relationships in such detail so it is quite a change to even consider a line of thinking like that.

but I see jealousy and possessiveness as frequent problems.

This is the issue and feeds into my previous post. This is not normal or standard for this to be a repeated and frequent problem.

The likelihood is that this is either because you are gravitating towards women who have vulnerability/jealous character OR because your behaviour is provoking jealousy and possessiveness.

I had an ex-bf who would do this to me deliberately. It was subconcious on his part and I only really got it with the benefit of time and distance. I was very young so couldn't see what was going on. Basically, he was ragingly insecure and thought I was too good for him. To prevent me leaving, he subconciously tried to undermine me and make me cling to him. Typically this would be casually mentioning other women who found him attractive and ramping it up over time. By the end of it I was convinced that if he walked into college his shirt would be torn from his back by a raging pack of his female fans. I honestly don't think it was deliberate; he was just an insecure man punching above his weight and he knew it!

But my point is that is was his behaviour that was provoking me into insecurity. It wasn't my own natural state.

oops

*I honestly don't think it was consciously deliberate

Well I suppose I could look through my behaviour and find things that really pissed off this or that partner, or gave concern in some peoples eyes about jealousy or what not. But often it is for things like going out on the town with the mates for a piss up now and then or working late during a big project. Things like that seem unreasonable things to become upset about, and then there is deliberate spite as retaliation. Maybe this is just a couple of bad eggs but I begin to wonder.

Frau, that's untrue, for what it's worth. Not superior, but different.

The problem is OP, if you're secretive in a newish relationship when a woman doesn't really know you, she's not to know if you're secretive but not up to anything, or secretive because you're cheating, addicted to porn/gambling whatever.

So your exes may have been having a look to check out what was behind the secretiveness. If they had a couple of looks and you weren't up to anything then they would be reassured that this is your personality rather than an anything sinister.

It seems a massive over-reaction on your part, and I wonder if you do have intimacy issues despite claiming you don't, or you're really insecure.

The lynch pin of any successful long term relationship is trust. Means behaving in a trustworthy way and also trusting a partner with personal information as time goes on. Most people would not insist on keeping tabs, reading mails, knowing passwords etc but, at the same time, would expect to be included in their partner's life at a more intimate level than others. What this kind of openness means over time is vulnerability. ..... but there is the trust that a partner won't abuse their position.

Draw a line in the sand day 1 insisting on total privacy, be too much of a closed book, and you set up a curiosity in a partner that can easily turn into something unhealthy.

I agree with pp but I don't think it's just curiosity, I think it's a legitimate concern.

If you took the line with a new partner that they were welcome to look at your phone or PC, then they probably wouldn't bother. If you take the line that they never can, and will get dumped if they do, then they're just going to wonder what you have to hide

A woman is putting herself in a vulnerable position with a new partner. Who wants to invest in what seems to be a lovely new man only to find he's raided by police for possession of child porn?

If DH snooped on my emails/phone, I'd be livid and we'd be having a very serious chat but it wouldn't automatically spell the end of the relationship. I'm a private person but I also have no problem with DH seeing my emails/phone. He has never bothered about me seeing his either.

Echo what some other posters are saying, I don't think it's at all OK to snoop on your partner, but in some circumstances I can understand why people have done it. Some posters seem to be equating a desire for privacy with secrecy and I don't think the two are the same thing.

Twinklestein, but put yourself in my position. Think of snooping like lying. Once a person has been revealed as a known snooper, can you ever trust them not to snoop again? It's the same kind of dishonest behaviour as I see it, as there is an unspoken agreement that such things are private...otherwise snooping wouldn't be so sneaky.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I don't really get this idea that you tell a new partner it's OK (or not) for them to look at your phone or PC. Do people actually do that? If I was on a date with someone and they said that to me, I'd think it was pretty odd.

Snooping isn't like lying though. And you need to think about why the person was snooping, indeed why this is something that has happened to you more than once.

What is it that you are doing in relationships that makes these women think they need to check up on you? What's making them suspicious? Is it just your secrecy?

I agree Comito, I think it would be bizarre to bring up in conversation regardless of if you were giving permission to snoop (and presumably asking for permission yourself..?) or by being upfront about prohibiting it. It's prohibited by unspoken agreement, it's basic manners!

Twinkle, I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I'm open to the idea that something that I'm doing provokes a suspicious response. I always retain a space for myself, my friends and my interests that don't involve my partner. Is this the kind of thing that might justify a bit of preventative snooping in some people's mind?

Could they be looking for the keys to your dungeon?

Is this dungeon metaphorical in nature?

Icelander, you said yourself that your issue is with women snooping to confirm suspicions, and that on some occasions you have given them reason to suspect something ("gave concern in some peoples eyes about jealousy"). So I guess you don't need telling that the frequency of this problem in your case might have something to do with you.

I snooped on my husband once in our relationship. I'd never done it before, and only felt compelled to do it because he was ticking all the boxes on the "affair" checklist, and was refusing to do anything about it, even to move out. I found his email account password in my desk drawer, where he'd left it. It seemed like the answer to my desperation. I was hoping that there'd be nothing suspicious. The first email I saw was telling his affair partner horribly private details about my sex life. He hadn't respected my privacy, far from it, and I felt partially justified in what I'd done, even though I know it's the most bunny-boiler moment in my life.

If you thought your long-term partner was cheating on you - all the signs were there - and she continued to deny it or refuse to do anything about it - you had no proof - are you saying you wouldn't be even a tiny bit tempted if you saw her phone lying about, just to see if you were right?

I can't remember a thread on MN in which someone (male or female) regularly snooped on a partner without any particular suspicion. Was there one in particular you were thinking of?

I totally understand peoples' need for space, friends and interests, I guess it comes down to how far they feel you are independent, or if they feel actively shut out of those aspects of your life.

If you are obviously guarded with your phone/PC/devices, that may make them wonder if you're hiding something.

She's referring to Blubeard OP.