What are these types of couples all about...?

[Somethingtodo]

I have 3 very close male friends who are in these types of relationships .... the male is vv social, real party animal, great fun, life and soul of the party etc - highly intelligent, loads of friends, loads of diverse interests - and the partner is Miss Mouse - no mates, no interests or other social life, dull, clings to the male....is the only woman at all male nights out....totally gets into the music/football team/whatever of the male - having had zero interest or the opposite tastes previously (I know 2 of the women from before).....

When I was a teenager my dad left my mum for one of these mouse women. When I was in my thirties I asked him why. The answer "because she thinks the sun shines out of my arse".
My dad was one of those life and soul of the party type of people, but underneath he was just a frightened little boy.

I am observing a consistent pattern in 3 long term relationships close to me - I am not judging or being critical - I have asked for insight from other who may have observed something similar.

As the feedback on this thread indicates - these relationships seem unbalanced possibly abusive for the woman - the male seems to get everything he wants -- she gets nothing she wants or needs and submits all her desires, misses all her opportunities to be a mother, have her own home, be an equal partner financially and emotionally.

Sacrifices a lot and puts herself at risk of being homeless, friendless, childless etc.

Maybe that adoring, grinning, "fan" behaviour is a rictus grin - unable to engage with others or develop her own life as she is watching every move and desperately clinging to her man.....I also think they enable/accommodate binge drinking which suits the male.

If it was my daughter I would tell her to move on and seek a complete full filled life.

"I know that the women have never dared ask for what they want." How? How do you know this?

And do people really spend this much time analysing other people's relationships?

Yes I do know that they have never dared asked - as we have discussed this and they have told me this is the case.

One is my brother's long term girlfriend of 14 yrs and the other is my SIL in a similar relationship for 12 years. These women are now in their early 40's and have sacrificed a lot.

I do think that the observation that they are in fact frightened little boys who want someone who thinks the sunshines out of their arse and do not want to be challenged to grow up or meet anyone else's needs is accurate.

One of the 3 girls has just left her long term partner this week and I am delighted for her.

I know a few relationships like this.

They appear to have adopted very 'traditional' roles in their marriages. Some of them appear happy in it, some of them I know are not. But it's up to them.

It's not a relationship I would want, so I wouldn't have one.

Sometimes the relationships will be abusive. Sometimes it will work really well. Sometimes the woman has just bought into it believing that she is doing what is right and are somehow 'better' than all those more equal wives (I know one of them). Sometimes they're in it because they thought it's what they wanted and then realised it wasn't (I know one of them). Sometimes they had difficult relationships with their parents and now feel 'safe' with one of these men who they perceive will protect them from the world (I know two of them). Sometimes it's just how the dynamic is perceived by others and is nothing 'sinister' at all...

If it was my daughter I would tell her to move on and seek a complete full filled life.

So would I. but then I'm bringing my daughter up to know she can do whatever she wants and a happy relationship is to be expected and a man is the icing on the cake, not the answer to all her problems.

There's nothing you can do about their choices, though, is there?

This section of the forum is dedicated to other peoples relationships and giving out ill informed advice based solely on their own past experiences...

Frank

I would wager, OP that you don't know everything about these relationships even though you speak with such lofty authority about them. And post about them publically. (I would persoanlly be furious if I found out you were dissecting my life online btw) Because I doubt anyone knows what really goes on inside anyone else's relationship - sometimes not even the people in it themselves.

Folkgirl - sadly there is nothing "traditional" about these relationships - no engagement/marriage/home/children/SAHP, etc - I have seen these woman getting nothing from it - not a roof over her head or anything else she wants or needs from life -- I think that the males have targeted a push-over woman so that that get 100% what they want with no strings....healthy relationships evolve as the couple develop together - give and take etc.

What I have witnessed close to me is that they both miss out - the males excessive socialising and and uncurtailed drinking as they age means that they mess up socially and careerwise.....I wonder if all 3 men are really just old fashioned piss heads underneath.

How bizarre that someone would be on a relationship forum and be furious to find people dissecting the dynamics of relationships.....

I'd say it's fine to come on and ask / discuss about your own relationship on a relationship forum. Or ask on behalf of someone else you're concerned about.

What you are doing is judging, in a very high handed manner, the realtionships of three "friends" (well it turns out that "friends" includes brother and that you are in fact just as knowledgeable about and intimatley aquainted with, the females in the relationships as the male "friends" you claimed to be close to in the OP but whatever!) for your own personal gratification.

Where have I judged?

I was in a relationship like that and it was because I'm nosy interested in others, XP was extremely charming/dazzling, also abusive. Now I have a more active social life than DH, so it was partly that I was dazzled/charmed by XP, and partly that XP encouraged me to drop all of my friends so I literally ended up with none of my own. I didn't notice at first but looking back that's what happened.

i think calling them 'dull' was judgmental and unpleasant to be honest, especially as it turns out these are women who trust you enough to have apparently confided in you about sensitive issues. i doubt they'd do that if they knew you were able to post about their business and describe as dull.

you've changed the tone and the concern of your enquiry later on but that opening post was something i can understand people reacting to negatively and seeing you as judging and feeling superior.

You seem very focused on these woman not having had the opportunity to buy a home, have kids, do the 'traditional' life route etc. maybe they are saying to you 'oh I'd love kids' because they do kinda like kids a bit....and besides you are quite judgemental (how you come across) so they feel they have to say this to you because deep down not wanting the hassle of kids might make them less of a woman in your eyes.

Seems to me these ladies have pretty relaxed lives - someone else is sorting out big finances (e.g mortgage, and are they living rent free? Result); no little people running round they have to be responsible for; they are quiet/introverts but happily OH has a ready made social circle they can hang out with if they want to go out. Do they go on lots of holidays? Are you sure they aren't, deep down, pretty fulfilled but feel that you would judge their lives as superficial (choosing regular holidays and spare money to spend on stuff you want over children? How superficial and vain) so they pay you the lip service of saying oh aren't your children lovely if only I'd had one....

Everyone moans about things they would like for a weekend but don't actually want to live, I regularly moan I'm not a high-flying career woman with a posh flat in the City - it's not what I really want and if someone came on mumsnet describing me and saying they feel sorry for me that my husband 'trapped' me into family life I'd think they were an ignoramous who pays far too much attention to drunken rambling!

I'm an introvert. On a night out I prefer to sit quietly an people watch, conversation is hard going for me, I don't enjoy it, and I don't particularly care what others think of me.

Dh is not very outgoing but feels the need to "fit in". So he's outwardly chatty, sociable, and having a good time. He respects my opinion and knows I'm not stupid so quite often if he's talking about his hobby he'll turn to me and ask what I think, or simply to try and draw me in to the conversation.

So on the face of it I'm a quiet shy mouse only talking about dh's hobbies. In reality it's very different.

However, I do think girls and women are increasingly being stereotyped into sitting quietly and prettily, and deferring back to the adult/male. Same as boys are being taught they are loud, rough and tumble, dont listen, interrupt in class etc.

What the op sees is an extension of the gender stereotyping from an early age. Girls are not being taught they are equal. They are socialised to fit in and nuture, to put others in front of their own needs.

I don't see the OP as judging, simply analysing a particular type of relationship dynamic. There are multiple examples on here of women who have put up with similar kinds of relationships and one day decide enough is enough.

i think calling them 'dull' was judgmental and unpleasant to be honest

So what?

Some people are dull. A lot of people are judgmental. The OPs original post raised a point he/she wanted to discuss based on something they had observed - a pattern of relationships that appeared to be unequal. It's a legitimate observation.

All this talk of judgmental/nasty/dissecting relationships is very sanctimonious to me. Firstly, it's a relationship forum. Secondly, let's get real, who hasn't ever looked at another couple and secretly thought "he or she is punching above her weight" and conversely "what on earth does he/ she see in him/her" or even "I wish my friend would dump this loser and find a man who deserves her and treats her right."

Sometimes this board is totally divorced from reality. Honestly, reading some of the stuff here you would think everything in the world is perfect, everyone is a delight/charming/attractive and everyone "deserves" (a word lightly tossed around without any real assessment of what it means) to have their own situation lauded and uncriticised.

Personally, I think the original post raised a fair point. To describe a woman who has " no mates, no interests or other social life, clings to the male....totally gets into the music/football team/whatever of the male - having had zero interest or the opposite tastes previously" as dull sounds a reasonable approximation of the truth. It may not actually be the case (eg. she could be a victim of controlling emotional abuse) but as a starting conclusion drawn on the info available it's not a particularly whacky, nasty or out their judgment.

It's also interesting that the criticisms of the OP are focused on the fact that it is the women who are being called dull. I wonder if there would have been the same reaction if it were the men. It's fine to be judgmental and critical of men but not of women?

*out there judgment.

I agree chaseface

"the partner is Miss Mouse - no mates, no interests or other social life, dull" sounds pretty pejorative to me

'Exciting men', seriously? They didn't sound exciting to me, just arseholes.

so what? well i was answering the OP's question about how she'd been judgmental actually. so the so what is an odd response.