Fascinating article: Do you 'turn towards' your DP's 'bids', or 'turn away' from them?

[nrv0us]

I don't normally read a lot of articles about relationships, but this one really hit home. It's a variation on that whole idea that 'contempt is the #1 relationship killer,' but it expands that to really go into what that contempt (or its opposite) looks like.

It's got a fairly Clickbait-y title, but I thought it was really insightful and just thought I'd share it here. Do you recognise your relationship anywhere in here?

www.businessinsider.com/lasting-relationships-rely-on-2-traits-2014-11?IR=T

canyouforgiveher - that is really interesting. At the start of our relationship, when we were still getting to know each other, DH said to me "when I say something and you can take it two ways, either in a good way or a bad way, take it in the good way, because I almost certainly didn't mean it in the bad way". I think I forgot that.

I need to be more mindful of the fact that (as you say) my DH is a nice, kind person and that he is not doing stuff to be horrible. He's just human and I need to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I did spend some time, last night, thinking bout the parent child interactions. DH and DS1 are coming to blows, a lot, at the moment and I think that, in these terms, a lot of it does stem from DH automatically being irritated by DS1's bids. DS1's bids are often somewhat dysfunctional, due to his neurological disorders, but while I hear his bid and analyse what he's trying to achieve by that bid and try to turn it into a positive, constructive interaction for both of us, DH can be very dismissive and snippy, which means that if DH needs DS1 to do something, he's met with hostility. On bad days, DS1's approaches to DH scream of insecurity.

That's not to be assigning a "blame" for the situation - rather illustrating a mismatch. DH is a person who makes few bids, which suits me as someone who has run like the clappers from relationships where I've found my partner's bids to be overwhelming. The only problem with this meeting of 2 adults with a lot of strong aspie traits is that we have offspring with full blown ASD and DH doesn't really have the social skills and empathy required to deal with the neediness (and explosiveness) of an extremely anxious child with extremely poor social skills.

BOF :o I could put that one on the wall!

And yes, DH does seem to presume the worst of DS1, quite often.

Yes, steppemum, there have definitely been times in my marriage when I just haven't the energy to 'pander' to dh's needs; when dd3 was a baby and dd2 was a toddler for example...after a long day looking after the needs of all the small people I'd occasionally need to switch off and immerse myself in a book or laptop, and wouldn't even notice dh's attempts at conversation. I think that's excusable though, provided it doesn't last forever. That phase certainly had a detrimental effect on our relationship though thank god we stopped having babies.

I had a moment of insight when I realised I could presume the worst or presume the best of him. he is a decent good person so I consciously decided to presume the best. It was the best thing I could have done for our relationship

I'm nodding so hard at this my head is in danger of falling off!!!

I married a good man, he's still a good man, but he makes mistakes in his actions or doesn't express himself very well.

I've posted a few bits on MN about things and have been aghast at how there is a propensity to see the negatives in everything, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt.

If I judged my DH as harshly as a general consensus on MN can do sometimes, I'd be found far more lacking than him when it prompted him to do the same.

Things have a way of escaping as our partners can mirror our behaviours.

*escalating, not escaping

I thought about this last night.
I left work so pissed off for various reasons that I had a g&t on the train and arrived home feeling quite expansive or thick-skinned. I felt open and available to the dcs. Dp didn't want what I wanted to cook so I said "ok make what you want and I'll have that then" (I hate that he will eat without me more often than not but at least in this case he hadn't started cooking for one which he often does.)

We had an ok time watching something and then before bed I showed him something on my phone that made him laugh. Then I showed him something else that he didn't think was funny and he made a very critical face and comment.

I thought about how I interpret and influence all these things that happen often for us:

not being starving hungry shredded and shattered (after some booze and some nuts) made me more relaxed in general and more relaxed about dinner, less arrow-from-the-bow about rushing to make it and more inclined to eat (a little of, if I didn't like it) whatever was going to make.

It also made me more casual about the fact that he rejected my idea / my offer to cook for him.

I also thought about the fact that him rejecting my food and not liking what I thought was funny felt so horrible, but at a slight distance (from having a drink - we had some wine too). I realise that he is very critical and very discerning of everything - food, tv, jokes, everything - and will never watch or eat or pretend to enjoy something to please me, or anyone. this makes him look quite perverse especially wrt food and I was thinking about how annoying I find it when he decides to cook single meals (often just freezer tat) either just before or just after I have made something else (out of actual food). I realise that what I think of as bids (laugh with me! eat with me!) he is actually unable to respond to as things-from-me (whether or not he wants to, or cares about my feelings) as he is just unable to respond positively to a thing that he thinks is not good enough, or not what he wants.

I think he goes through life in a cloud of feeling superior to nearly everything and this really grinds me down because drawing attention to nearly anything as a "bid" will get a very literal response - to the thing, not to me necessarily BUT I DON'T KNOW - of "no good".

I'm really glad that this thread has provoked such an interesting discussion and positive response.

I still think that what the research has demonstrated is something quite obvious, but it's quantified, to some extent, that thing that does seem obvious to many, as well as providing the language to explain the phenomenon.

Thanks, Canyou!

ros, that sounds like quite an enlightening evening! I can sympathise. My DH is very very 'honest' and this is a quality I greatly admire in him. But he is incapable of pretending to like someone or something if he doesn't. Separating those responses to how he feels about me has been a journey.

There's a 'married couple' mars and venus element to some of this, the old cliche of getting dressed up to look nice for him and him not noticing or pointing out only where the hem has fallen down etc etc. But that's where discussion of an article like this can be handy. To point out to them how it feels on the other end when you are looking for connection/reassurance. But also to us that it's a personality thing, rather than a criticism of 'me' and then deciding whether to take responsibility for being in a relationship with someone like that, when I know I could be with the sort of men who are extremely present, connected and 'biddy', and I chose not to be.

Maybe it can be summed up even quicker as 'always think the best of people and respond to that'?

When our children were very small (and we were very busy and quite stressed), I had a moment of insight when I realised I could presume the worst or presume the best of him. he is a decent good person so I consciously decided to presume the best. It was the best thing I could have done for our relationship

Thank you canyou, you have exactly put your finger on what I found uncomfortable about this article (in a very indirect way).

It is laden with very judgemental terms, 'masters' and 'disasters' no less! No one wants to be a disaster, do they, so by labelling some behaviours as belonging to 'disasters' the article is implicitly blaming the person doing this for the relationship's 'failure' (I also loathe that term).

In fact, there are people with different needs and different personality types. Some are compatible, or at least reconcilable with some effort from both parts, some are not. Where they are not, the best and healthiest thing to do is to recognise it and for each to look for someone better suited to them.

I have seen a lot of relationships end in my family. The vast majority were two good people who were just not well suited to one another and parted on the best of terms. Many are still close friends.

I do not view these as 'failures' or 'disasters', just the natural ending for relationships where the relationship was not fulfilling the needs of both individuals.

Dh and I happen to be a good fit, we complement each other well in terms of personality, are both sufficiently independent that we don't impose too much of a burden on the other in emotional terms and we enjoy each other's company and doing things together.

But none of that would be sufficient, imo, if we hadn't over time developed the trust that we have each other's best interests at heart, and that we do love each other even if we are not, at this precise moment in time, able to be emotionally available.

Our relationship has improved enormously over time as we have become less judgemental of each other and of others, and kinder and more forgiving of ourselves as well as of the other.

The thinking the best of the other person comes into this.

It means we can afford to 'see' the other person as more than a reflection of ourselves. If I make a bid and dh ignores it I think about why he is ignoring it rather than automatically assume it is because he doesn't love me, and so can he.

If he asks me something and I am reading a book, I can say 'I really want to read this now' without it being an insult to him. In fact today we had exactly that situation and I didn't even have to say anything as he said himself 'oh, you are reading a book and here I am talking to you about nothing. I just missed you, but I'm perfectly happy to leave you to read in peace.' As it happened, I chose to put aside my book and chat to him, but it would have been OK if I hadn't too.

We are not always nice to each other, in fact we are sometimes pretty awful, but if we can see each other as good people who want the best for each other it is much easier to find the actual cause for the awfulness - with work, children, colds/aches/pains, lack of sleep etc. there are usually plenty of perfectly understandable reasons for snappyness/bad moods. If we respond to these rather than to the perceived slight, then we are less likely to escalate the situation into a row, which will take even more emotional energy away.

Gosh that is so long I will be amazed if anyone actually reads it.

Liara that is excellently put - in my head this is where DH and I are in our relationship which has been honed over many years. And I totally agree about the masters and disasters - why so competitive?!

Timing of bids can really make a massive difference in terms of how one responds as well. DH is very ego-centric when it comes to time - his time is the only time that matters, so if he wants to do or say something it is done immediately; whereas if I or the boys want to do or say something it has to wait for him to be ready. This creates problems in its own right. Obviously if he's on the phone, on a work call, then yes, we should wait - but when I ask him for help and he says "wait up" while he changes his clothes or scratches his balls or something equally unimportant that could just wait a minute while he helps me (quite often with something quite urgent, by the way!), then it creates massive resentment.
Same with the boys - they want to play, he wants to watch a DVD, something he could do when it's dark, after they've gone to bed. But his needs outweigh theirs in his head (I'm talking weekends here, not after a hard day's work)

It results in us backing away from him in terms of making bids because chances are very high that he will choose to make our bids less important than his own needs.

My mum does that, thumb witch. It's horrible. My dad is only ever allowed his own time if she isn't needing it right then (and not for urgent stuff).

Wow. That sounds like a pretty tough way to go through life -- your time not really being your own. Has he adjusted/accepted it?