Fascinating article: Do you 'turn towards' your DP's 'bids', or 'turn away' from them?

[nrv0us]

I don't normally read a lot of articles about relationships, but this one really hit home. It's a variation on that whole idea that 'contempt is the #1 relationship killer,' but it expands that to really go into what that contempt (or its opposite) looks like.

It's got a fairly Clickbait-y title, but I thought it was really insightful and just thought I'd share it here. Do you recognise your relationship anywhere in here?

www.businessinsider.com/lasting-relationships-rely-on-2-traits-2014-11?IR=T

This article has been a revelation to me. As I have got older I have become a bit of a mardy cow, but only with poor DH. Perhaps I know that he will put up with it. He is so much nicer to me than I am to him.

Thanks for the article OP, I think that a few of us might benefit from a bit of self reflection.

Just had a thought, DH has occasionally said that he likes my slightly bad tempered personality. Oh dear.

I've just ignored him whilst reading this. There's no hope for some of us!

divetastic That's a hard one, sometimes I have to tell DH that he's lost me when he goes into a bit too much detail about something at work. But for that example, I'd probably say I didn't really understand, but ask a question like, so what difference will it make to the car? Or something. Or just reflect back the fact that he's proud of fixing something (a metaphorical pat on the head, but without the patronising :))

Ah, I see MrsNucky. I guess in that case I'd say that our response to bids depends on a combination of how important it is and how tired/stressed we are - the more tired/stressed we are, the more important a bid has to be to get a response.

Although even when tired/stressed, any bid should ideally get a response of some sort, even if it's only "Sorry I'm too tired to chat right now".

"Or just reflect back the fact that he's proud of fixing something"

yup this could even just be meeting his eyes properly with a smile. You coudl say "I haven't a clue what you're talking about but I am happy that you solved it!" as long as you look sincere about the happy part and don't make the "no clue" bit sound dismissive and snippy

I found this really very interesting. My dh has aspergers and often doesn't listen or ignores when I make small talk. I've told him before that the small talk leads on to the big talk and I do find myself not telling him things to avoid rejection. I also find myself consciously rejecting his 'bids' purely for the reason that he rejects mine and I'm feeling rejected.

"I feel bad reading it because I realise that both of us are guilty of "turning away" - DH because he can't be bothered to listen to me, and me because I get pissed off that he doesn't respond to me. Not conducive to a long-lasting happy marriage. "

Me too, Thumbwitch, me too

Thanks Frabjous, although eye contact doesn't really come naturally to me, and I tend to sound sarcastic when complementing people (even when I'm being genuine). I really feel like I missed some class at school that teaches us how to interact properly and I'm still trying to catch up... will definitely be more mindful of this though in future.

HelloKitty, I suspect I have some aspergers traits, which possibly explains some of my behaviour. My partner has got irritated with me before for being rude (not responding to his bids, or carrying on with whatever I was doing), but I didn't really get why he was hurt. To me he was being rude interrupting me in the first place. Now that its been spelled out, it helps me 'get' it. I think if he'd told me straight that he felt rejected if I ignored him, that would have helped me to understand why it was important to make the effort to respond better.

It doesn't really bother me if I say something and it isn't acknowledged. So I guess I don't bid in the same way he does, hence the lack of empathy. Normally if I want to connect with him, it would be with physical touch (holding his hand, cuddling etc), and luckily he is always very good at spotting/reciprocating my bids. It just makes me sad that I've been unintentionally rejecting his

I actually found this helpful and a bit of a wake up, although it's common sense I have found myself very much 'turning away' from DP, often I'm caught up in something on the computer of deep in thought and he'll say something and I won't even look aver at him but give a non committal grunt in response
I don't want to be that person, so after reading the article I am going to make a real conscious effort to try and connect more with him rather than letting us fall into a stale, uncommunicative relationship. I know it bothers him and I always just assumed this was how I am, but maybe not.

I think DP and I do OK at this, despite being very different and winding each other up in some ways.

But it does strike me that you shouldn't have to respond to all "bids" all the time. There's such as thing as making too many bids and not ever letting someone focus on their own thing. So for example if you are constantly seeking attention and making bids even through your partner's favourite TV programme, you deserve to be told no/turned away from to some extent, it's disrtespectful.

DP doesn't do this but my mum does, big-time, she can't bear the attention to be anywhere but on her, so the'll keep interrupting and showing you things or telling you to face her so she can take a photo etc., even when it's clear you're interested in something else (well especially then). So I don't think this is the whole story. It's important to generally respond to each other's bids, while those bids are reasonable and respectful.

CaptainJaneSafeway I definitely agree there's such a thing as too many bids.

My mum has always done it - she has very little social insight and this is, to her, how she gets attention. Because she is massively chippy after a lifetime of mixing with people who just wish she'd be quiet for 10 seconds, she responds with petulance and flouncing to any suggestion that anyone should be able to do do anything without constant interruption. And she sees everyone in the family as just grumpy and unpleasant - but we're all just really tired and burned out. Basically if you're in the same vicinity you just have to give up what you're doing and engage with the stream of tediousness consciousness. It's exceptionally wearing, though I do understand it comes from a place of attempting to engage nicely.

One general point that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the need for mutual ability to discuss the content of the "bids".

My DH's bids are almost always about his work topic, about which I know almost totally nothing. And i wasn't even any good at the foundations of it at school... I really try, but my responses come across as rejections about 2/3 of the time, because I just honestly don't know what to say. I can see myself really needing to retrain into his area*, or us both being a bit sad in future. We've survived ok 8.5 years together, but a lot of that has been us both being too busy to spend a lot of time together.

*this isn't as daft as it sounds, I am trying to work out what to do with my life now I've decided i hate my own career...

As someone said upthread, the frequency and content of bids can make people compatible or otherwise. So if you're the sort of person who needs to make a lot of them, you're best off marrying someone who is happy to accommodate that. I think it's very difficult to "teach" someone to lessen or increase the number of bids they make. Either you're compatible or you're not. Unfortunately it sounds like a lot of us aren't compatible with our own mothers!

I also think that in extreme cases the bidding itself could be a mark of a person who is needy to the point of being controlling.

It kind of reminds me of that Justin Lee Collins court case where he had been bullying his partner and one of the things said in court about him was that he would insist she lay facing him in bed, if she turned over he would nag at her her to turn back.

Not that all "bids" are needy and I can totally see how that willingness to listen and share helps with a good relationship. But part of me wouldn't want anyone in an abusive relationship to feel they just need to go along with all their partner's "bids" and they can make it all right. IYSWIM.

So how do you respond to someone who's making one of these bids, but you don't have anything useful to add, without sounding passive/destructive?

I think some of the people instantly dismissing this article could do with learning the answer to this question. The OP found something he thought was interesting and wanted to share it. How nerve-wracking to do it on a public forum only to have people telling you you're stupid. Would you do that to a friend who showed you something they found fascinating? I agree, these posters are probably the ones oblivious to these bids in their own relationships.

Anyway, thanks, OP, I'm going to use this in relation to my children.

I think there's been a really thoughtful discussion on this thread and loads of people have said they've found it interesting or useful.

Yes so do I.

I found it insightful too. Mainly because it's put very succinctly.

My arse of an ex would look daggers at me if I dared interrupt his newspaper reading or tell me 'I'm reading!'

Shitfaced bastard. Hope he rots in Hell. Bitter? Moi?

I think as far as content goes, it's important to be able to distinguish between a genuine bid for connection and intimacy, and someone just wanting to discuss something they find interesting. They're sometimes different things. If my DH has a hobby he's passionate about and bores me, he can just as easily talk to people on an internet forum or a mate down the pub about it, and if that's what he's looking for, there's no relationship implication.

However, if your partner is actually, underneath the content, looking to connect with you, and says something about his day or his hobby that you can't really relate to, the only important thing is that you try generously to acknowledge and respect the bid. Even saying, 'I'm knackered now, love, but I'm really glad that came together for you,' with a hand squeeze, before going and having a bath is doing that.

It doesn't need to be a full on conversation. There's a way of being kind and respectful and closing down the interaction. That's not actually turning away. Turning away would be sighing passive-aggressively and saying, 'You know this bores me to tears and you've never properly explained it. But go on, explain it to me and I'll just sit here and nod.' Even though this extends the content of the conversation, it's deliberately shutting down the intimacy and kindness and humiliating the person for making the bid. That's the difference.

Really interesting reading, and very useful.
I've always maintained (well, ever since I've been in a happy relationship) that the secret to a happy marriage is kindness. But this has opened my eyes to some of my not so great behaviour too, occasionally 'switching off' when dh talks about his work for example.
It also sheds light on my disastrous relationship with my ex, I worked so hard to make him happy, but it wasn't enough. He was rarely kind and the opposite of generous, in every sense if the word, and my attempts to connect were too often ignored or rebutted.

It obviously can't be that obvious to everyone, or we would all have perfect relationships
And I'm not being smug: I might have stayed unhappily with the miserable ex 'for the sake of the children' if he hadn't left for his next unsuspecting victim.

It is fairly obvious, but I also don't find it particularly helpful in terms of actually managing a real life, day to day relationship where both parties are human beings and have stuff to deal with.

Fundamentally, I think if both parties are committed and sure of each others' commitment, many of the things they describe can be worked around. Dh and I had a system when we were both very busy professionals with little free time where we would literally say 'pay attention to me!' (in a jokey, baby like voice) when we needed it - meant that instead of having to be looking for cues from the other person when we were exhausted and had a million things vying for our attention we could relax and do whatever in the knowledge that the other would ask for their needs.

Similarly, sometimes having a big horrible rant at someone when feeling tired, low in blood sugar or full of hormones will lead to a hug and a 'I'm sorry you are having a horrible day' rather than to a defensive row. That's because we both know that we think the world of each other, and so can see that if one of us is being horrible it is because they are feeling awful rather than because they hate the other.

All the interactions they describe as the desirable ones come across as somewhat forced and unnatural to me.

Or maybe I am just grumpy.

No, Liara, is sounds like you chose a partner who responds and understands the bids you make and he to you, e.g. 'pay attention to me'. Many people would find that 'forced and unnatural'.

You seem the very definition of what the article is trying to express. It's irrelevant how unconscious it is. Obviously the less conscious it is, the better. The reason it seems obvious to you (and others) is because you naturally do what's fleshed out in the article in the chemistry of your relationship. That's what you've managed to do through a wise and fortunate choice of mate. you would therefore be a 'master' rather than a 'disaster'. You're proof of it, rather than a contrary way forward.

I guess so. I haven't ever seen a couple that talk to each other the way the article describes, but I don't really have that many 'successful' relationships to compare with, we are the only marriage in my family that has lasted over 20 years (so far, intend to keep going), most of the others were under 10!

Well congratulations, it sounds like you're doing it right!