Fascinating article: Do you 'turn towards' your DP's 'bids', or 'turn away' from them?

[nrv0us]

I don't normally read a lot of articles about relationships, but this one really hit home. It's a variation on that whole idea that 'contempt is the #1 relationship killer,' but it expands that to really go into what that contempt (or its opposite) looks like.

It's got a fairly Clickbait-y title, but I thought it was really insightful and just thought I'd share it here. Do you recognise your relationship anywhere in here?

www.businessinsider.com/lasting-relationships-rely-on-2-traits-2014-11?IR=T

well yeah, but saying, 'I know I always go on about your lateness and that must be annoying, but I only go on about it cos it's really really annoying for me,' is pretty easy and normal, surely, to show empathy before expressing a grievance. If someone shows up late and you go, 'Why are you always fucking late, you're so selfish!' that's okay and honest too, but it starts things off on a very combative footing and also you don't know if it's because of something terrible happening or whatever.

"the crucial thing here is to recognise a bid when it happens and to have the generosity in that moment to be present and available for it."

Well put. Not earth-shattering, but worth thinking about -- both in terms of how we respond to our DPs and also how they respond to us. Are our various 'bids' getting the responses we want them to get?

This is helpful, thank you.

Upon reading, my first thought was, "FFS, university of the bleedin' obvious."

However, on reflection, I thought, "People behave like that at the start of their marriages? Why did they get married?"

I can only conclude, again, that some people genuinely either have no experience of what a normal loving relationship is like or that for some reason they believe their only option is something less than a normal loving relationship.

Why else would you start a marriage "turning away" from the other person?

Why would anyone marry a person who "turns away" from them at the start?

Spend a while on these boards and you find all kinds of reasons why people get into relationships with people who are less-than-ideal.

The two reasons you cite (no experience of what a relationship is supposed to be like + low self-esteem) are both pretty huge and widespread phenomena and can get people into all kinds of trouble. They're not idiots, they're just trying to navigate with bent or broken antennae.

My DH is very open about his "bids". He'll say something and if I don't respond he'll say "I'm trying to connect with you..." and look a bit sad....then I will usually respond.

I'm quite an "islandy" person. I'm happy alone...I don't need others' approval or anything...but I do try to give him attention.

Funny that so many of you think it's obvious. DH and I have been together 30 plus years and he still has to make an effort to make those sorts of 'bids' and respond to mine. Asked why this is the case and why it happens (we have been having a lot of these discussions in the last 2 years) he will genuinely doesn't see why it matters - 'But I've got nothing to say' etc. but his actions in most other ways are loving and positive.

He has never been good at small talk - hates parties with people he doesn't know. I tried to explain it's just a form of friendly noise and it DOES matter but because I am very good at it he has got away with not being. I don't think it's 'obvious' at all for many people. It isn't an indication of a major personality flaw just a failure in social communication. He's improving. Slowly.

A lot of people don't have experience of a 'normal, loving' relationship no, TheLittle. In fact, sadly, what is 'normal' is pretty debatable since where children learn how to respond and be responded to is growing up in the family and I've yet to encounter one of those I would describe as totally 'normal!'

It's interesting how some people don't really relate to this. I don't think the implication is that those people who 'turn away' are consciously rejecting or trying to hurt the other person, but that they either don't understand the 'bid' as a plea for intimacy and connection, or they are not capable of displaying or providing the 'turn toward' that the partner is looking for in response.

To express it from the other point of view, I've been in friendships with people who I've found incredibly need, whose every conversational gambit is an attempt to find flattery or support for their point of view/behaviour. The sort who you find draining to be around because they demand so much attention, reassurance.....connection, you might even say. We are all along a spectrum. One person's turning away is another's preservation of themselves from someone who's just a bit...high maintenance.

The point is not that some people are just cruel, cold and sour. But to choose wisely who you partner with, to make sure you're on a similar place on the spectrum or making and recognising these bids. The bird example is a nice one because, of course, what sort of person would respond to their partner pointing out a bird with a shrug and a 'so?'

But now imagine the bid is more along the lines of, 'oh look that blond one's back on corrie, i hate her, look at her coat, i used to have a coat like that, didn't I? Did I? I don't know, where is it? Maybe I lost it.Have you seen it? God she's a bitch isn't she? I said they'd do a storyline with her coming back.' etc etc. And that it happens all the time.

Bit less judgemental of those who opt to turn away with the, 'yes dear' approach now.

So this article is saying that one of the best indicators of whether your marriage will last is this seemingly small compatibility of feeling able to make, recognise, receive and turn towards bids continually as a pair. Which is interesting. And a bit more specific than 'be nice' or 'don't be annoying', which are impossible permanent tasks.

Thanks nrv, it is an interesting read. I have bookmarked it for future reference - might send it to DH as well, although I can guarantee he'd only read it in relation to me and my behaviour, not his own.

Well said, Blood. Perhaps there is something about being with a person who has a similar level of "bidding" and "turning towards" as you do yourself. I certainly don't turn towards every bid my DH makes, and vice versa. Over the years we have built a better understanding of each other's needs in this respect (or at least I think we have!).

I can relate to it! Also saw it on someone's facebook this morning and read it, then read it again this morning at work.

I have to confess that I am definitely at fault for not always reacting to DH's bids. In fact, I am sure I have said to him recently when he mentioned something 'shhh, I'm reading' or whatever. I know I'm not always like that, and I do often make a real effort to be mindful of listening and joining in when he tells me his concerns or interests.

I really thought it was good food for thought.

That IS interesting. I'm a 'turner-away'. I need to try to change that. My husband is very much a chatty sort and I'm very much a need-my-own-quiet sort. It's not really compatible thinking about it. I'm away from home most of any week and am crazy busy catching up on housework and office paperwork when I come back. That's when he's chattiest and I'm busiest. I really need to look into this in more depth.

It the first article, OP, that has ever stopped me in my tracks.

I feel bad reading it because I realise that both of us are guilty of "turning away" - DH because he can't be bothered to listen to me, and me because I get pissed off that he doesn't respond to me. Not conducive to a long-lasting happy marriage. :(

Something has to change...

I don't like the word "bid" being used in this context.

It reminds me of "do my bidding" too much.

I also thought the thing about how they are feeling inside when being interviewed was interesting. The 'disasters' had higher heart rates and blood pressure even when talking about mundane things, bascially because they were ready at any moment to go on the defensive and fight back with their partners.

I'd love to be one of those masters who jsut feels calm and at ease constantly and doesn't ever leap to the defence or down their DH's throat like I am guilty of doing!

I thought that when I read the OP's title, Claw but then the article made it very clear that it was more like a "bid for attention" so I stopped being bothered by it.

Interesting, thank you.

Interesting.

I have to say my own and DH's "bidding" behaviour (both in making and responding to bids) depends a lot on how much time and energy we have.

Currently I have a toddler, broken sleep, pregnancy, full time work and a building project going on. In these circumstances I am much less likely to make, and respond to, non-essential conversational gambits or "bids". If we were on holiday, having plenty of sleep, and/or DD was being looked after by someone else, I think we'd both be more likely to make and to respond to "bids".

So I hope the study is careful to compare like with like iyswim.

minipie - i think the point is that 'bids' are not necessarily non-essential conversational gambits. I think the example of the bird was used but the bid could be anything - relating to something as important as a promotion at work down to spotting the neighbour's cat doing something in the garden. I think the point was not the value of the bid but the nature of the response and that what has been noted is that response to bids (whatever their nature) is an indicator of overall relationship health.

Totally hear you though and know that my lack of response to bids sometimes is down to stress, thoughts of work, just wanting to sit in peace and quiet rather than hear DH witter on about paint colours!!

Thumbwitch
"I feel bad reading it because I realise that both of us are guilty of "turning away" - DH because he can't be bothered to listen to me, and me because I get pissed off that he doesn't respond to me."
yup this is where we are

I actually feel a bit tearful reading this (at work!) because I feel vindicated by the notion of "bids". I feel like I am always steeling myself against micro-rejections that could so easily be dismissed as unimportant and I feel like this is naming something hurtful that was making me feel a bit mental.

My parents were in town yesterday for one day and I could only see them for one hour snatched out of work. In that time they said about 15 nice things to me and I felt unusually happy for several hours afterwards. When I got home I got blanked as usual and it felt much worse than usual. I feel like it's nice but sad too that this has a name in my head now.

"I also thought the thing about how they are feeling inside when being interviewed was interesting. The 'disasters' had higher heart rates and blood pressure even when talking about mundane things, bascially because they were ready at any moment to go on the defensive and fight back with their partners. "

this was the bit that I found really disturbing. I know this is me. I know that I feel very uncomfortable around DP and his real or imagined rejection / criticism and I know that getting over this and continuing being bright and breezy, pushing through it and "faking it till you make it" is an effort that is feeling bigger and bigger and less and less worth it every day. I quite often leave the room and "go to bed" at 8.30 just because I feel uncomfortable sharing the living room with him and his real or imagined indifference, contempt, rejection, whatever.

I've read this before and although it seems obvious, it has made me more aware of really engaging with a response, rather than just "oh yes that's nice dear" sort of response, with my DCs as well as dp.

I really relate to your description of a relationship where those bids are not accepted positively Blood - my marriage to XH was a lot more like that.

I've also recently had an incident with a friend who complained about a lack of eye contact, about feeling that her 'bids' (she didn't actually use the word, but now I see it in that context) were being rejected and that she's had enough. I couldn't see anything negative in our dealings with each other, but perhaps it is the lack of positive that she has noticed rather than anything negative?

"However, on reflection, I thought, "People behave like that at the start of their marriages? Why did they get married?""

They don't know they're doing it. The people who are doing the turning away have no idea that they are being hurtful. What often happens is that they are very happy, getting everything they need, getting a lot of loving attention from someone who is making all the "bids" and thereby demonstrating that they care. The "ignorer" can feel the positive intent of this cheerful person without returning it.

Maybe they will return it at a low rate, like one time in three, that gives the "bidder" an incentive to keep trying. (there is a study that shows that rats press "reward buttons" much more compulsively when the rewards are erratically bestowed - I read this in the context of managing online distraction! - but I know I used to do it with "bids")

"Why would anyone marry a person who "turns away" from them at the start?"

because they don't recognise it as a problem. Because even though they feel hurt often, they don't quite know why. Because they can't put their finger on what is missing. Because they have low self esteem. because of the "erratic rewards compulsion" thing. because if they attempt to describe - to themselves or anyone else - what is happening, it sounds stupid. "I just didn't want to look at the bird right now!" because... "cool girl". because they come from a family where they are used to being "got at" by siblings, or had a rough friendship ride at school, and are used to always feeling uncomfortable around other people and thinking of it as their fault with loneliness the only alternative. OR something.

Hmm interesting article, definitely opened my eyes to my own behaviour, inasmuch as I do find myself turning away from my partner when I'm tired/unwell/lacking in energy to fully engage with him.

I'm fairly socially inept/oblivious I guess, so although I always make an effort to be kind and respectful, it hadn't really occurred how much of an issue retreating into myself after a long day might be, or even that his attempts at conversation were requests for attention (he's also pretty introverted).

To me it seems amazing that this is 'obvious' to other people without it being explained. I have a pretty dysfunctional family, so guess that doesn't help, and I've never really got to grips with a lot of social norms like small talk (even though I'm in my 30s and appear outwardly to be an adult).

So how do you respond to someone who's making one of these bids, but you don't have anything useful to add, without sounding passive/destructive?(eg he's busy telling you about the bit he's just fixed on the car, and you have no clue what he's on about)?