Dividing chores when you have a toddler. Or maybe a relationship + PND thread, I dunno

[DaddyDumkins]

Hi, I'm a long-time lurker, could do with advice and sense of perspective. DD is coming up to 18 months old. I work f/t, DP is SAHM. Things seem to be going downhill.

I do pretty much all the cooking and washing up, and all laundry, bins, tidying, hoovering etc, and sorting out the bills, rent, etc. We did (at my insistence) split things, e,g. I'll be responsible for arranging electric, phone/internet and rent; you do council tax and water bill. But after those didn't get paid for a while I ended up doing them. I don't think I have high standards - I did try relaxing and ignoring the washing up (like DP said to) for two weeks, but at the end of the two weeks there was a big pile of washing up and some meat sitting on chopping boards, so me and her mum spent an evening cleaning it.

I have a flexible job which means that I can stay at home to help, but then I'm storing up trouble for later (e.g. I can do no work now, and it won't show up until my contract doesn't get renewed because I haven't got enough done). Plus, if I stay at home and look after DD so that DP can get some housework done, or look for a job, or something else she wants to do, then she spends the time either in bed or watching things on Youtube or Buzzfeed etc. So it's bad for my job and doesn't achieve anything anyway.

So instead I've tried to concentrate on work and leave the housework till the evenings, which just leaves DP to do the childcare and fixing meals for her and DD while I'm out. But that's not working either. E.g. as I left for work this morning (late!), DD was up and running around the bedroom, while DP was on her iPad. So they didn't get to playgroup until 20 mins before the end. Now it's 2pm and they haven't had lunch yet. DP hasn't made anything, and is talking about going to the cafe downstairs, which we can't afford every day. And anyway now there's no chance she'll have lunch, then a nap, then get out of the flat before it gets dark. This isn't a bad day - it's normal or even a comparatively good day. Quite a lot of days they don't get out of the flat at all, and still haven't thought about cooking tea when I get home at 7 or later. So then I end up cooking, and still have to do the washing up and the rest afterwards.

Now DD is going to a nursery 1 day a week (which we can't afford on my pay, so using up savings) so that DP can do other things, start looking for a job, etc. But so far she hasn't done anything with those days, just had a long lie in and played on the iPad and things.

We can't seem to talk about it. If I say anything too early it's "I'm doing it, stop hassling me". If I say anything late in the day then it's "Sorry, yes I know. Next time it'll be better." But it never is. FWIW it's not just me that's worried - her mum wanted her to go to the docs too. So she went to the GP about PND, and did the (Edinburgh?) questionnaire. She came out borderline, just under the score for cause for concern. She went to another docs (we moved in the meantime) and it was pretty much the same. So it doesn't seem to be a PND thing exactly.

Please can someone tell me IABU, or that I'm being controlling about things (e.g. I'm worried about DD not getting attention, or proper food, but maybe that's being obsessive), or that this is all normal, or something? And if it's not, is there anything I can do? Getting worked up about it clearly isn't working, but I feel like things are getting a bit desperate now. I alternate between feeling worried about DP, and feeling like she's just being lazy and leaving me to do most of the work.

DD breastfeeds a bit still, especially to sleep most nights. That was probably a pretty important detail to leave out! So maybe I'm really misrepresenting how much work DP does. But anyway, I guess that's one of the things I'm asking. There's probably more relevant info/backstory about how things got to this point, but it's already long and rambling!

We had a bit of a talk tonight. She doesn't think she's depressed, just a bit stuck in a rut, maybe got a bit lazy and doesn't know how to get out of it. That sounds right to me. (This is also following a chat she had with her mum, who is great, but also incredibly strong and used to dealing with DP's dad, who was an alcoholic. I think she might have persuaded DP that things aren't right a bit more than I could.)

That's some kind of progress, but the rest keeps degenerating into an argument and we get nowhere. Eg she keeps talking about small steps to get things better. To her that means things like tomorrow she'll try and finally phone up to pay the water bill. To me I guess it sounds like it should mean making some more concrete change to the way things work, like agreeing a division of chores, or a plan for DD's feeding or sleep, and making some effort to stick to it. Other than that I'm kind if at a loss. Any suggestions welcome!

I think part of the problem is that she keeps minimising things (or at least that's how it looks from my perspective), so in an attempt to get her to see that it's serious I get all animated about the kitchen, or DD's diet or whatever, and that shuts things down.

Thanks Knickers, yes that might be the case with the milkies. Hopefully she'll get a weighing with the HV and that'll allay worries.

Happy1985, well it's not great for our relationship, but actually it's not too bad still. DD is snuggled up now with her mummy and it's peaceful and calming. I resent her not pulling her weight, but understand she doesn't have it easy either. She resents me nagging but understands I'm doing a lot. Of course it'll all blow up again sometime tomorrow.

Resentment within a relationship is so destructive.

My Exdp was lazy. Didn't pull his weight. Didnt acknowledge what I did. I ebf our dd now 9 months. I did every night feed & got up every day. He never once took over. I asked him to & told him to, eventually begged him...

He never cooked or helped out. I said he was lazy. He said I was ott.

Eventually I stopped trying & asked him to leave. It's so much easier without him.

You need to decide if you want to live like you are, for much longer. I think your dp sounds depressed. If not very lazy. Ultimately, you have choices...

Please can someone help. I have tried to explain things to DP by telling her the things I've said here. I got home at 5 and they were just having lunch. There is a huge mound of washing up in the kitchen. DP had yesterday off, as DD went to nursery, and she was going to do the washing up then. She didn't do any at all. Just now I tried again to explain to DP that this is a problem. She started watching a programme on the iPad. I lost it (don't worry, not in an Al Pacino way, more a Basil Fawlty way). Not because of that particular mound of washing up, and not because of that particular film on the iPad, or any particular thing, but because it just symbolises my utter failure to get through to her at all. She says she can't see what the problem is. After all, it was only an 8 minute film on the iPad. We're both here now. Please could someone answer this question: "What's so wrong with watching that 8 minute video?" Because I just can't explain what's wrong in any way that I haven't tried already. I've tried, but I've failed.

Oh dear. I just popped by to see how you were getting on and saw your update. I am not sure what is wrong with watching a film...did she started watching a film when you were trying to talk? If so, that's rude. I think though, in the heat of your argument you have got a bit derailed. You shouldn't be arguing about a film. My advice, both of you go cool off then try and discuss things calmly later.

Bollocks, okay part of our problem is clearly that I am shit at communicating. Often when I complain that DP hasn't done anything to help she'll say she didn't get round to it. So I point out that look, you could do it now instead of watching that youtube video. She'll say "Okay, stop hassling me, I'll do it after this video, it's only another 2 minutes". But still nothing gets done. There's always just one more fucking video, or link to some oh-so-important item of news, or whatever. I'm pretty sure that's how whole chunks of her day get eaten up. I was trying to talk to her about our problems, and I think I might have huffed in the direction of the iPad that she was watching, and she said "What? I'm just watching this, I'll be with you in 2 minutes". But how can I complain about that? After all, it's only going to be 2 minutes.

This sounds really frustrating, OP. I teach teenagers and the kind of task avoidance you are describing sounds like something one of them would do (they would be aware what they were doing was wrong, too). The watching the film is avoidance too. It is hard to believe you are describing an adult. Your expectations are completely reasonable. My DH has our toddler one weekday and I expect him to feed her and change her promptly (it would never have occurred to me he wouldn't - he's much more routine-y than me), sort nap and he takes her out twice - this is a big deal as he is introverted and hates groups but he know DD enjoys them, so he goes.

Do you have Homestart in your area or any other sort of befriending service? (MIND has one in our area). I think your DP might benefit from someone coming round and encouraging her to get on with things/go out. The fresh air and change of scene would probably benefit her as much as DC. Something or someone needs to break the cycle she's got herself into.

What do you think would happen if you 'accidentally' took the iPad to work? They are very addictive. DH and I both have them and one reason I think it's good to go out a lot to parks and so on is you can't use them there. Who wants their DC to remember childhood as mostly trying to attract their parents' attention from their phone/computer?

I think maybe you and DP would benefit from Relate or similar.

OP if I was you I would take your dd to stay with your mother for a week or so to see if your gf can sort herself out.

By what you have described it doesn't seem to me like she wants to be a mother or partner right now as she isn't really contributing to the roles.

You might aswell be a single father.

This sounds awful OP. I agree with others that she is using the iPad as avoidance. It is easy to get sucked into YouTube, social media etc if you are bored all day. Can you agree to limit internet to evenings when DD is in bed? Put wifi on a timer?

OP, I was a bit like your DP when DD was little. Looking back I was probably a bit depressed - overwhelmed by new motherhood, lonely from moving and not the sort of person to easily slot into new routines and networks. Also, long term breast feeding can be exhausting especially at night. Not everyone is a perfect super mum with all the answers, some take time to find their feet and develop their own routines, even a few years.
Fwiw these things helped me
1 ansure start/NCT group where I made friends, however it took me a long time to find one I was comfortable going to. It is not always as easy as finding one at a convenient time.
2 a local cooking course with a crèche - I really enjoyed this and it helped me to enjoy cooking and not see it as a chore
3 a list of easy meals if in doubt. Jacket potatoes and salad, pasta and pesto. Nothing fancy. Sandwiches or soup for lunch.
4 the good housekeeping site here helped me become more organised at shopping, cleaning and chores which I was dreadful at before.

I can't believe some of the answers on her. People are giving the DP such an easy time and suggesting the OP essentially treats her like a wayward child. Did people miss the fact her DD is not a newborn but 18 mo?

I think she needs to take responsibility. Leaving dirty dishes on the counter for more than a day is just awful. Yes we did it as students but you are not students now and you have a child in the house, and that makes all the difference.

Your child does need a clean and stimulating environment and fresh air. My so isn't much older and tbh he would destroy the house in a morning if he wasn't allowed out or properly fed! He is hungry every 3-4 hours.

I am no expert on longer term bf but surely by 18 mo milk alone is insufficient and your child requires a balanced diet?

I agree with the PP who said this is neglect. And that if you were a woman who was posting about her male partner the advice would be totally different. Yes you could confiscate the iPad, install a dishwasher, pay for a cleaner. Or go with Quites advice!

I read out Phinyj's first reply (I hope that's okay - I know it could backfire to share personal threads, but I've already done that anyway. Hope it's not a breach of wider MN etiquette). She has now done some washing up while I put DD to bed. Thanks! (There was a slight blip at the start when I also mentioned Relate, which had to be Googled and then there was an interesting looking link.)

Accidentally taking the iPad to work wouldn't help, because although she has an old phone without apps, it does have a Snake game that is equally absorbing. In any case I'm not sure I want to do that. DP is an adult!

Though again I'm grateful for Quitelikely's hardline advice (and earlier this evening I would have happily moved out for a week or two if e.g. her mum could stay to make sure things don't get out of hand and as long as I had daily contact with DD), I don't think it's really fair or workable. For a start, DD is still breastfed, for better or worse (I mean, I know EBF is a good thing, but it is taking its toll and also is perhaps a bit of an excuse for not getting out). And anyway I'm sure none of this is DP's fault. Even if she's not depressed at all and is just avoiding things for whatever reason, she has had a hard and draining time lately. "Something or someone needs to break the cycle she's got herself into" is exactly right. On the other hand, I guess I could float the idea of her having a break for a few days. Hmmm. That would probably mean the end of breastfeeding. DD going cold turkey at nights might be interesting. Maybe I'll quietly mention it.

Just starting Homestart actually. Hopefully will help.

Thanks for the ideas Sleeping. There are other NCT groups nearby to check out. Cooking course could work. And thanks for the perspective, I hope it's less than a few years though!

Is DP and toddler sleeping through the night? If not broken sleep can deeply effect motivation.

I think its normal to do some jobs before and after work. However DP needs to pull her weight too.

In your shoes I'd pack a packed lunch for DC. Or prepare a large batch of soup that can be eaten over a few days.

One trick to getting out on time is getting everything ready the night before. Is this something DP could do?

Is it worth sitting down and working out a routine with her?

Presently she sounds very isolated and addicted to technology. Can she put a time limit on how long she uses the iPad

So she is being woken at night to breast feed? Yes?

How often is she feeding at night?

Just focusing on the iPad aspect, it is a diabolical time thief. I speak from experience. It did start getting a bit out of hand for me, and I had to make a pact with myself not to use iPad/iphone/laptop while the DCs are awake. It sounds a bit ridiculous but it made a difference. Good luck OP. Looking back I was depressed after DS1 was born but I didn't realise until he was much older. If anyone had asked me at the time I would have said I was fine. Going from working f/t to SAHM is a massive shift and hard to negotiate at the best of times. Good luck OP and DP.

I think her limiting iPad/phone time would be a start. Maybe she could allow herself an hour while the babies sleeping and another hour in the evening once babies in bed

You sound like a lovely dad and caring partner. I think there is clearly something not right with/for your wife. Either she is depressed and needs medical help of some sort, or else she is lazy and just not prepared to pull her weight. Either way it does not sound as if she is much enjoying parenting and this cannot be good for your DD.
Would it help just to acknowledge between you (without blaming) that things are not quite working and try to put everything on the table.
Your work situation, her (potential) work situation, the basic chores that need to be done, the kind of parents you both want to be.
It may be that she is not suited to be a SAHM and will be happier and more motivated if she resumes her career. Just try to have a very open discussion about what you both want the next few years to be like.
God knows I have often had a messy house whether working or not working, but hope I have never switched off from my DC's basic needs the way she seems to have. Try to approach it in a spirit of sympathy rather than judgement (I know that is hard) and find out what, if anything she is looking forward to , or enjoying in her day apart from the bloody Ipad.

Did the HV get back to you? I think you need someone objective to help you both. You've tried talking about it and you just keep going round in the same circles, and as long as you continue to do so, your DP might be suffering from depression and your DD might be being neglected. You can't fix this yourself and there are so many variables that we can 't fix it for you either.

I don't think it matters the DD is not a newborn. 18 months is a tough time esp if you are still breast feeding on demand and motherhood is still relatively new territory overall if it is your first. Some people find it easier than others. Some PND is not diagnosed until way after birth. I also agree with the above that lack of sleep affects motivation. I have a 15 month old and have had brken sleep all week. My brain is like this horrible fog but i am used to it now and know it will change when he starts sleeping better at about 2. It's not long in the grand scheme of things.

Imo, DP's addiction to iPad sounds like a desperate need for connection and she has probably carried over the disorganised feeding style of bf on demand to meal times. Bf does count as food still... But starting to see DD's mealtimes as happening at 'normal' times might help with a routine. re. Giving up BF, if you are worried about 'neglect' how is your DD going 'cold turkey' going to help with that? It is her one guaranteed comfort from her mum even if she doesn't take her to baby sensory and play endless duplo.

I think people underestimate the connection and nutrition that long term BF provides. Of course DD needs other food but don't write off the massive benefits she is getting from that. It comes at a price - the mum being knackered all the time. I don't think the OP can full understand this, not having been in this position.

Personally though, I think OP should go to work and let her get on with it. She isn't doing her job properly but neither is he atm. The more he stays around the more help and breaks she will take because she is knackered. Still to agreed breaks outside working hours. And keeping his contract is his priority and should not be something he feels he can blame her for later down the line. Also consider ditching nursery if it is not helping housework get done. Maybe the idea of losing her free day will motivate DP to get off her iPad and do some housework/batch cooking. It would me!

I'm not worried about "neglect", Sleeping. That was introduced by PPs above. I trust DP to look after DD. I don't think the current situation is good for either of them though, nor for me. Thank you and others for the reassurance that a bf session is still a meal of sorts. I do feel more relaxed about it now. And I did get to talk to the HV yesterday thanks APlace. She was somewhat reassuring. But she did say that we really need to get the meals sorted out. She also suggested what we've been told before, that DD's nappy problems, including constipation, may be due in part to too much milk and not enough regular food. Add that to the long sessions sat in the armchair, of course watching videos, when DD has already fallen asleep on the boob, and I'm afraid I'm just not seeing those "massive benefits" any more. But of course I realise that it's not my decision. We're having a session with HV next week and also she's going to bring along someone who focusses on establishing routines and things.

tbf you probably won't see the benefits of extended BF but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

It's also not an either/or situation eg extended BF or have a mealtimes routine. I was very organised with DS' meals and snacks ( food diary divided into different food groups ) but I still BF for much longer than your DP has.

I guess my point is that, if some part of this, is about you being unhappy about your DP still BFing then I think you need to be honest about that. Extended BF has not caused the issues in your home and relationship (unless you are both arguing about it!). It could be good if the HV can suggest a BFing support group in the area too. The session with the HV sounds like it could be a good starting point.

I'm not unhappy about BFing still. I can see that it is a lovely thing. I was specifically reacting to (a) the apparent fact that DD doesn't get proper meals and snacks because she's breastfed (i.e. the reason why there was no solid food until very late was that DP didn't get round to it, and one of the reasons she said she didn't get round to it was that she was busy BFing and playing on the iPad) and (b) the suggestion that the lack of solid food doesn't matter because DD was being breastfed instead and breast milk is an acceptable substitute for solid food. And then I was trying to come up with a positive spin on Quitelikely's suggestion of a break. It was a mistake to focus on EBF at all. The thing that needs going cold turkey on is that horrible gadget which I gave her and yes this is payback for those times she had to tell me to put down my fucking phone and yes I know none of this is the underlying problem.

Thought I was being clever but ballsed up the strikethrough.

I'm not unhappy about BFing still. I can see that it is a lovely thing. I was specifically reacting to (a) the apparent fact that DD doesn't get proper meals and snacks because she's breastfed (i.e. the reason why there was no solid food until very late was that DP didn't get round to it, and one of the reasons she said she didn't get round to it was that she was busy BFing and playing on the iPad) and (b) the suggestion that the lack of solid food doesn't matter because DD was being breastfed instead and breast milk is an acceptable substitute for solid food. And then I was trying to come up with a positive spin on Quitelikely's suggestion of a break. It was a mistake to focus on EBF at all. The thing that needs going cold turkey on is that horrible gadget