Is this normal 'protection' or is it control?

[Whitecup]

I'm so confused and could really do with some impartial advice! My dh has always been very controlling financially and emotionally but things seem to have got so much worse lately. I was a sahm for 4 years. He gave me money each month but it was nowhere near enough to support 2dcs. Without going too much into it he'd give me £200 a month and I'd be expected to do all the food shopping, insure and run my car and buy clothes for the children. He would give me extra but I would have to ask and explain why and make it difficult. He is a high earner (six figure salary) but said this is all he could afford to give me I knew it wasn't but I was grateful he provided us with such a wonderful home and comfortable life. I decided I couldn't take it anymore, that I needed to break the cycle and started back at work about 8 months ago and since he's been a nightmare. He's told me that the dcs are suffering (I work school hours and drop them off and do pick up every night), for the first time ever I asked dh if he could pick the Dcs up from school so I could go to a meeting. Now he's saying I'm jepodising his career and everything that enables us our lifestyle and that he's going to have to leave his job. He keeps telling me that the dcs are ill and need a day off school so I have to take time off work (I haven't because they are fine but he makes me feel dreadful). Now he's asked me if I'm having an affair with someone at work. I've found myself lying to avoid being questioned. I don't know what to do- I feel like I'm going insane. He's away all the time with work. This month he's been away 3 weeks but every weekend he's gone out for a day with his friends. I feel like such a mug but every time I tell him he's been desperately unfair he says it's me and how lucky I am to have what I have. I'm so confused am I really just ungrateful??? I'm so tempted to give up my job but I couldn't bear to go back to having no money and no independence. He says he knows he's controlling but that he wants to protect me. How do I change this?

I can barely read your thread, Whitecup. This is an extremely abusive situation though I understand why/how you are still enthralled.

It won't be long before his pittance of a contribution towards the cost of food, clothing, car will be reduced or even stopped. If he cannot get you out of the job, he will ensure that you spend all your wage and then some to get by.

Living in poverty in a mansion doesn't sound like a desirable lifestyle. All the tip-toeing around and being regarded as chattel is archaic. It seems to me, as an outsider, that you are little more than his prisoner.

I pray you will be ready to leave soon. His behaviour is on the edge of escalating, I believe. You may be surprised at the lengths he will go to for you not to breach the prison walls. He is beyond being a bully and every defiant move you make against him will be countered with a very strong but carefully constructed response.

This situation is likely, in my opinion, to become more and more dangerous.

Whitecup if you're able, please DM me for my contact details if you feel up to an anonymous chat about it? I know how it is to find a few minutes to get online or talk without being 'caught'. Try to do it while he's away or wait until he's gone again - I'm not going anywhere. Also, consider setting up a new temp email address just for this purpose and only log into it when he's not around - it makes it easier to save information and send yourself links when you find them.

I was in almost exactly the same position as you and may have some advice and pointers about your finances, possibilities etc. All information I have obtained is very up to date as it was only a few months ago. I am so relieved to be out if it that friends say I'm glowing! You may or may not be ready or want to leave but at least take the information - it will come in useful. Believe me. You may think you can't squirrel money away from the amount you're given and you're right but there are other ways ;-)

PS What is it with the £200? This amount always seems to be given to women is this situation - myself and my friends included! Just enough to live but not enough to laugh :-(

Dh called about an hour ago. I called him this morning to see if he was ok and he told me he was unhappy- I said I didn't think any of us were. He asked me to expand but I was at work and said I couldn't talk. When he called he asked me why I'd said what I'd said. I explained why and he told me felt desperately unhappy in our marriage too. Anyway to cut a long story short he's told me I need to work out if I want to try and work at our marriage or take seperate paths. I'm so sad I can't believe this has happened so soon. I'm wondering if it's because I challenged him this morning and said I was unhappy too instead of just asking why and trying to fix it??? He says the last year has been awful especially the past 6 months. His main contentions are that I'm on my phone too much (reading the news), that I didn't want to go on holiday when he asked yesterday, that he lives in a house full of females which he finds incredibly difficult and that he does all the cooking and cleaning at night (he loves to cook, it's normally already prepared and he only cleans so he doesn't have to put the kids I bed which I do at that time).

I feel so ill I thought I'd have more time to prepare myself for this. What the hell do I do now? Maybe it is 50-50 and I'm as much to blame

I feel like I've woken up

Cling on to that thought.
Seek counselling - on your own. To clarify in your own mind what you want/need to do (if he feels he would benefit from counselling then let him sort that out himself. Couple's counselling in an abusive relationship can be very damaging and dangerous).

You do not have to save money (how on earth can you save any money from £200/month?) to get out.

Consider giving Women's Aid a phone - they have vast experience in how to deal with your situation. Get some information while he is away to give you options on your return.

I live in a house full of males and I don't abuse them.
I do all the cooking and I don't abuse them.
DH is on his laptop all the bloody time and I don't abuse them.

Nobody should have to live like you do

He is most likely calling your bluff. Hoping you will back down and then he will be able to make demands that you change to make him happy.

Stand strong. Grab this opportunity.

He is selling you a crock of shite there OP but don't worry this phase won't last long.

This is the man you are married to:

He shouted at my dd terribly because she stood at the side of me whilst we were eating dinner. It's quite a regular occurrence his very fraught shouting and it comes from nowhere there's no middle ground (never violent) but before I've always felt sorry for him thinking he must be stressed at work... I feel like I've woken up my poor dcs I've done a lousy job at protecting them from it.

Ah, so he's been so much more unhappy since you wanted more from yourself and got a job.

His idea of working on it will all come from you again.

"He shouted at my dd terribly because she stood at the side of me whilst we were eating dinner. It's quite a regular occurrence his very fraught shouting and it comes from nowhere "

This is a horrible way for a child to lie.

He is saying this stuff about being unhappy to bring you back into line.

Your unhappiness is NOT down to 50% you being at fault!!!

He is extremely territorial of you - he can't bear your dd to be near you, he can't bear you being out at work, or giving your attention to being n your iPad. It is such an unhealthy way for you to live.

Sorry, OP, I know it is scary, but the independence you feel in having your job? That could be your life.

To be honest he sounds like a psychopath of some sort and I would make swift but careful plans to just go - maybe to your mum's - next time he is out of the country.

And see a solicitor asap.

and get a copy of lundy bancroft as quickly as you can. It really will make it all much clearer.

You've got some great advice here OP.

I'm a bag of nerves I'm constantly assessing my movements.

This sentence is what struck me about your last post. You do know that that is not a normal way to live - ever. I suspect some of the posters advising you on this thread have real experience of living with a manipulative abuser. I don't - I live with a lovely man. We have our fights and we have our worries and we have had very difficult times but neither of us have ever felt what you described above. Your home and marriage should be a refuge not a place where you are afraid to relax and be yourself. your marriage is not normal as you describe it - the whole thing is off - very off and I don't think that is coming from you - it is him. I think your mother knows it too.

I wish you the best in dealing with this. I echo the others. Don't go to a joint counselor. Go by yourself. Tell her/him your story first.

He's trying to put you onto the back foot and panic you. Now you realise you could lose him, you'll try harder and be a good little girl, won't you?

I sincerely hope you won't. You're already thinking maybe he's nice and it's half your fault.

Your fault he shouted at your poor daughter? Your fault he lies about the kids being ill to stop you working? Your fault he insists you're grateful for everything? (what an awful "gift" the perfume was, just given so he could remind you how nice he is - cock!) Your fault you have so little money to feed HIS family that you run up debt?

Please please please speak to Women's Aid.

I know it's really scary right now, but you must carry on and continue to make plans to live independently of him.

What suggestions has he made about living arrangements?

OP you don't sound "lucky" at all Please get away from this horrible man for your dds sakes. I know we like to stay for the sake of the children, but there are times when that will be worse for them in the long run.
You are worth so much more than he is giving you. His behaviour is not at all normal, however he might like to think.

It's reverse psychology, what he's doing there, and it's almost worked.

I bet you a month's measly grocery allowance that if you agree and start talking about practical ways to split, he will backpedal so fast your head will spin. This isn't what I want, we should try again for the kids, I'll do anything. Just watch.

On the other hand there's a faint possibility he does want to split because he's found a better prospect, although I doubt it. In that scenario please try to look on it as an easy way out for you (and spare some pity for the other woman!).

Fucks sake. He's scaring you into changing, this is another psycho trick. He's making everything all your fault.
You don't want to go on holiday.
You don't cook and clean.
You read your phone too much.
What about him?

I got everyone of those ^ apart from the cooking. I always did that which gave him the excuse to never take me out for a meal - 'it wouldn't be as good'... And I was 'always' reading the paper or a book. Basically it took away attention I could be lavishing on him. Well fuck that.

Stop letting him into your head. Stop being scared of this almost ultimatum, he's calling your bluff so you'll change back into good-little-housewife again.

If it's easier then keep quiet, but save your money to use when you are stronger - to leave him. The satisfaction from calling the shots yourself is unmeasurable.

That's exactly what he's doing. He's trying to manipulate you into doing what he wants and leaving work. Honestly, it's sooo transparent.

I know you're panicking and it seems like it's moving too fast and you'll be tempted to appease him to maintain the status quo but please, please don't quit your job. Your H is a very abusive man and this situation is so damaging for you and your dcs. Do contact WA and keep posting here for support.

I feel sick reading this. You need to r careful. He's only unhappy coz you've challenged him, the threat of leaving you is so you fall back in line realising how great and good he is to you. Don't do it.

I agree with others. His words are designed to panic and confuse you. Deep breath. You can do this. Have you rung Women's Aid yet?

(Also, who are all of these "females" he is forced to live with? Are they human females?).

It is what we would expect him to do and say when he feels a shift in you.
It's just a way to keep you quiet and submissive. He's not expecting you to say 'Yes, let's separate' he's expecting you to grovel and be pathetically grateful for every tiny crumb he throws at you.

Look how he treat his own daughter last night. Do you think that's going to get better or worse as they grow?

Do you want to teach them they have to put up with this?

He's away now. Go and see a solicitor & phone Women's Aid - work out your exit plan.

Oh and the next page in the script is him begging and promising to change when he knows you mean business. That doesn't last either.

I'm a bag of nerves I'm constantly assessing my movements

I did that for years and years, I didn't did anything without weighing up whether I had a "good enough" reason to be doing it - even going from one room to another. Please don't put yourself through this any longer, don't make my mistake.
Leave for your children. I didn't have MN all those years ago when my children were growing up. Back then the culture was such that anyone I went to for help either couldn't see what I was complaining about (but he's such a good provider. And so handsome.)Or they told me to change what I was doing, victim blaming.
Now I see the effects in my children's lives. It breaks my heart. But I didn't know, you have such good, wise advice on this thread. Please listen.

Op

He is gauging your reaction to leading questions, he is baiting you in to revealing your true thoughts and feelings.

I'll say I'm unhappy, because I've seen a slight change in her, ahh ha I've got her she says neither are we.

That's his cue to start monitoring your every move more than usual
Less money possibly making your situation more untenable, thru lack of child support or care are or more control etc. he earns six figures he will want to keep it all to himself and leave you homeless I suspect.

Please don't tell him anything else or your thoughts or plans, please however read namechanged 4th thread to see how these guys go about their info gathering.

Phone woman's aid, your not going mad or imagining things, make your plans to leave if you think you must, but keep them quiet and take all the support you can get.?

I wouldn't even try counseling tbh. You really need to get out.
I promise you, in a years time, you will feel so so free.
You and your children will be happier. I can guarantee that.

He shouted at my dd terribly because she stood at the side of me whilst we were eating dinner

You need to get your DC away from his abuse.

He's only mentioning his unhappiness with the marriage as he senses you are waking up and becoming your own person which he won't tolerate, so he's upping his attempts at control.

Contact Womens Aid. Just because he's not violent doesn't mean he's not abusive - he is.

Talk to you DM some more and to other people in RL you can trust.

Keep posting on here.

Consider seeing a solicitor so you have an understanding of the powerful position you will be in should you divorce this abusive tosser. Don't buy in to any nonsense he tells you or threatens you with.

Don't bother with the counselling unless its just for yourself.

Have you managed to speak with Women's Aid yet, Whitecup? They have busy phonelines. Did you say he was away atm? Would you consider being "gone" by the time he returns? I kind of think it IS that bad. I'm deaf with the alarm bells ringing for you.