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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Head of the household? really?

83 replies

youcannotbeseriouslady · 07/11/2014 12:00

Ladies, I have a question for you. Do any of you follow the biblical way of marriage in that the husband is always the head of the family and therefore makes all the decisions. I think the interpretation is that it doesn't mean he doesn't consult the wife but certainly he is the Head and the Wife his number two. This does in effect curtail the role of the wife in decision making since if there is ever a disagreement then the husband has more sway. Does anyone follow this line of thinking and apply it to their marriage on a daily basis? Does it result in a happier marriage or lead to resentment, since what if the 'leader' makes an awful decision?

OP posts:
LineRunner · 07/11/2014 12:28

OP, are you under the impression that this is some kind of radical philosophy?

WellnowImFucked · 07/11/2014 12:31

Another cat ruled household here. . .

Boomtownsurprise · 07/11/2014 12:33

Biblical? As in boom is Christian therefore is a nutter?

See I might have said Victorian or traditional. Wouldn't have ascribed it as a sociological failing of the Christian church specifically

PeppermintPasty · 07/11/2014 12:34

But why did you ask? Do you know someone like this? Do we need to stage an intervention?

firesidechat · 07/11/2014 12:34

I'm a Christian, so I suppose the model you mention is more common amongst the couples I know or at least that's what many of the churches I've attended would like to happen. I don't attend church any more.

In reality I married a decent man and most decisions are joint. The only ones that aren't are the ones I couldn't care less about - new hifi speakers come to mind. It does mean that some decisions get put on hold because we can't agree. For instance we have a blank space where the water feature in the garden should be.

I don't know anyone who is subservient to her husband and who consider themselves in any way number 2 in the relationship. Even my mum, who was a 50's housewife, could in no way be described as someone who let my dad make the ultimate decision on anything, ever.

RubyGoat · 07/11/2014 12:36

Not in my house. I (the wife, BTW), bring in the sole wage. DH has just started at uni, after many years unemployed. He was a wonderful SAHD to DD when I went back to work after mat leave. It makes far more sense for us, that I deal with all finances. We are equal re decision-making.

DM, Dsis & her family go to a particular, fundamentalist church that believe the man should be head of the house. BIL told Dsis to give up work as he didn't want to look after the kids (he works from home part of the time). So, despite loving her job, and despite having at least 2 days per week of free childcare from DM, she did & is now bored silly. Dsis consoles herself with the fact that she promised to honour & obey, so anything that goes wrong in their life, isn't her fault, it's BIL's. I'm not sure which is the worse thing here, the lack of respect by BIL & the church for Dsis/women, or women's lack of respect for themselves/joyful acceptance of losing any control of their own lives. And they wonder why I don't want to go to their church. suspect I wouldn't fit in, I earn more than DH

InkleWinkle · 07/11/2014 12:37

I am Facebook friends with another mum who has her employment status as " second-in-command at X household"

I thought at first it was a joke meaning her toddler rules the roost or something but apparently not...

youcannotbeseriouslady · 07/11/2014 12:39

no not a radical movement i just wanted to get your opinions and ive been laughing at them all. i live abroad so this is all very, very refreshing! thank you ladies :)

OP posts:
BeginnerSAHM · 07/11/2014 12:42

Nobody at any of the churches I have been to would suggest this way of running a family. The submissive wife thing is very much an evangelical wing of the church thing that only some evangelical churches advocate. It's an interpretation of the bible that most Christians disagree with now. It makes me fume I'm afraid. (All that rubbish about 'consulting' the wife and the husband doing 'what's best for the whole family including her' is just so patronising.) It might be a way of making decisions when there is deadlock but I think it's better to have deadlock than run your life that way.

firesidechat · 07/11/2014 12:43

We may not all be ladies. In both senses of the word.

Are you a lady op?

firesidechat · 07/11/2014 12:45

It was evangelical churches that I was thinking about Beginner.

It might be a way of making decisions when there is deadlock but I think it's better to have deadlock than run your life that way.

Agree with this too.

Ludways · 07/11/2014 12:49

We're a team, if he was allowed to go unchecked we'd be living in a shack with several hundred thousand pounds worth of sports cars outside!

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/11/2014 12:50

This is always the risk of signing up to cults, especially ones that began 2000 years ago in the Middle East. A place where, let's face it, female emancipation is something that happened to other people. Safer to hand over the reins to the cat, on balance....

carlsonrichards · 07/11/2014 12:51

Considering that the Bible is a work of fiction, no, we don't follow a work of fiction to run our home.

Meerka · 07/11/2014 12:55

birdhouse ... yay for Bob ruling! :)

I've come to believe that God is rather more laid back about sexual mores than religious would have us believe except for the commandment about adultery.

A lot of this man-rules-household stuff is just masculine desire to be in control and waiting on, all wrapped in false legitimacy.

Men in charge just becuase they possess bollocks is .... bollocks. What happens when you get a sensible woman harnessed to an idiot man? In a normal marriage, she'd get out or quietly become decision maker. In this patriarchal model, the man would make the decisons and the whole family go down. Makes no sense and I don't think God likes seeing people go down because of avoidable stupidity.

BadRoly · 07/11/2014 12:55

I suppose I would 'run' our household in that I do the majority if the shopping, make sure bills are paid, get the dc where they need to be etc but mainly because dh works away so it isn't practical for him to do it.

But big decisions are definitely joint. That said, I did nod in agreement with the PP who struggles to make the pointless stupi

BadRoly · 07/11/2014 12:56

Argh hit post too soon

I agree with the PP who can be found catatonic at the sink unable to chose between Lenor or Comfort Grin

crazykat · 07/11/2014 12:57

No I don't defer to DH, of anything he defers to me. He's never had a head for figures an made a mess of his finances before he met me. I tend to shop around and get the better deals so money is left for me to sort out.

Big decisions are always made together, ie what car to get but its me who works out how much we can afford to spend.

Decisions about house stuff and kids are left to me as I'm at home to deal with it and no way would I phone DH at work to decide if I can buy the kids something.

I'd go insane if I had to defer to DH about things or if he had final say on a decision. I'm too opinionated and independent to live like that.

steppemum · 07/11/2014 12:57

Op I am Christian and have heard all the arguments about submission and headship in marriage.

I have a theology degree, and did my dissertation on women in leadership.

In conclusion (Grin) It is bollocks.

The Bible says submit TO ONE ANOTHER first, which is a nice way of saying consider the other person in your relationship, don't be selfish. Which is fine by me.

BitOutOfPractice · 07/11/2014 12:59

Well not all the "ladies" here are married or living with anyone so...

kentishgirl · 07/11/2014 13:02

Yes, there are lots of people who live that way, usually members of the more evangelical type churches and especially those who come from cultures where this is the normal way to do things.

My ex believed all this. I didn't know until I moved in with him. Did it cause friction? Did it cause arguments? Did it cause resentment? Oh boy did it.

He thought I was the abnormal one and what used to really infuriate me was that he would insist that it was impossible to live any other way. Because I could see that actually many of his friends and family and people in his community DID live this way, and had very happy marriages and relationships. It was what they expected and what was normal for them. I respect their right to live that way, and accept it can work. It used to piss me off no end that he would deny that any other way was even possible - he would argue that other types of relationships don't work, no one does it, basically arguing that up is down and black is white and hot is cold, just sounding like a moron. You can accept that other people live in a way you don't want to live, but you can't deny that they live that way themselves.

FFS. Why did I waste so many years...

My problem was I didn't take it seriously enough. It seemed so bizarre to me and his refusal to acknowledge other types of relationships exist so ludicrous I thought it was a wind up to some extent. On a day to day basis it doesn't actually make any difference even if you believe this. It's not about the man constantly bossing the woman about. So it's easy to ignore or minimise. I used to tell myself the hospitals are full of people who say they are Napolean, it doesn't mean they really are. If he wants to say he's head of the household, it doesn't mean he really is.

It was a major contributor to our break up.

He eventually realised that I wasn't going to change, I wasn't going to wait on him hand and foot, and I wasn't going to 'respect' him as a man in the way he wanted. He went off and found himself an alternative who would.

One of his arguments 'for' all this was that a ship can't have two captains. I think it's a common metaphor in those churches as I heard it elsewhere as well. Trying to point out that a home, a relationship, is not comparable to a ship, was fruitless.

The funny thing is that the women aren't half as respectful as the men imagine. The women have their own saying, too. 'The man is the head of the family, but the woman is the neck that turns the head'. I heard that a LOT, usually accompanied by laughter and sniggering at the men. so essentially the women manipulate the men into thinking everything is their own idea/decision, but end up doing what the woman wanted any way. I tried telling ex this, and that I found that sort of relationship disrespectful of the man, and just game-playing on both sides, and that I wasn't interested in doing that, but I think he never quite believed me about it.

LineRunner · 07/11/2014 13:02

I think the OP should have addressed her/his post to 'Women in relationships', or some such.

textingdisaster · 07/11/2014 13:04

Yes Peppermint brilliant : If I ever make an awful decision, I drink wine and it soon sorts itself out. Grin.

Might have to get that framed and put on my wall along with Dumbledore's "one can never have enough socks" quote that I also want.

ouryve · 07/11/2014 13:05

It's bollocks, so no, we don't.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 07/11/2014 13:05

As someone from that background I have heard it spoken about, but in practice it seems like most couples I knew were pretty much like everyone else. A lot of it just comes down to the personalities involved rather than any theology. Unless you have someone who is abusive, who might use the 'headship' card to beat their partner with.

The way I heard it described is that actually being the 'head' means you should be more submissive as you should put the other persons feelings before your own.

I still think it's a load of rubbish but in practice for the families I knew I don't think many really gave it much thought. But it is a terrible message to send to women and men. Hence why I've rejected it. I'm still a Christian though, and now go to a church where thankfully there's none of this sort of nonsense.