Body issues. Still :(

[FolkGirl]

Hi all

I have posted about similar things on here before and had some really useful advice/responses. Things are getting better (honestly!) but this week something happened that brought it to the forefront of my mind and there's a hurdle I still can't get past.

A lot of my issues are around feelings of not being 'good enough' and self worth. On paper, I think I look pretty good, I have a number of friends, hobbies and a social life that is as active as I want it to be. I think I'm a nice person; I'm kind and thoughtful, but not a pushover. I try to be considerate, but I'm not a people pleaser. I genuinely care about other people, but I don't do things for others to the detriment of myself. I think I have a fair balance of things in that respect.

My outstanding issues all seem to be centred around how I look. And this is something I just cannot get past.

I was asked out by a man few months ago. We have become good friends; very close in fact. He is a genuinely lovely man, and I don't say that lightly! However, I am happy being single and intend to stay that way for some time (ever, even).

But it isn't strictly my choice. I don't think I'm attractive enough to have a relationship. Or slim enough. Or have an attractive enough body/physique. Now I know that this isn't the be all and end all, and I can see in the world around me that "looks aren't everything". But when it comes to myself, I can't get past it.

The issue is that I know his ex gf and she is, physically, pretty much perfect. Tall, slim, blonde, pretty and has a really lovely figure. I am none of these (the tall and blonde bit don't bother me). I couldn't even contemplate going out with him because I am objectively not as 'good' as his ex. This week, he acknowledged that she "fulfills the stereotype" and I also know that she isn't perfect in other ways. But this isn't really about her.

How can I ever have a relationship with anyone knowing that I am, objectively, not as attractive/good as their ex? And, lets face it, given than I'm nothing special and nearly 40, that's going to be true of everyone I meet (everyone is going to have dated someone who "fulfills the stereotype"). How could I ever be naked in front of someone who has previously had/seen better up close? And sex. How can I have sex with someone knowing that I don't look or feel as good as their ex? I feel that I would be such a compromise. I'm strictly in the "well I'm mid 40s now, realistically, am I going to do any better?" category. But I've never been anything else. And I don't know how I would feel about this man if this weren't an issue for me.

My self esteem is much better now than I think it has ever been and this is making it even harder. Previously, I would have suppressed all the shitty feelings and done it all anyway. Now, I don't want to feel like that, so rather than even try, I am happy and comfortable to be single. But the more I think about it, the more I realise that this is just how it is now. I'm not going to get any 'better'.

I don't even know what I want/need. I know that sexual attraction isn't based on looks alone and I do finally get it that being attractive doesn't guarantee a successful relationship (both thanks to responses on here). But in terms of myself, I don't see how I can get past this. Or whether I'm being silly to even try. Even if I had counselling, she would still be tall, slim and pretty and I would still be, well, not.

It's not helped by the fact that she is a little jealous of our friendship and has tried to sabotage it in little ways. I can't cope with the thought of her looking at me and thinking, "well, at least I've got a better arse/stomach/face/etc than her". It makes me want to walk away from the friendship I have with him, because I can do without the negativity, to be honest.

Oh my goodness. Honestly, the most unattractive thing about you, from what's on here, is how obsessed you are with your looks. I suggest you open your eyes a bit, there are people with burns, disfigurements etc, who are all gorgeous and loved. There are stunning people who are shallow, self centred and very unloved. I have no idea what you look like but I do know I'd find you hard to be around as you're so down on yourself and that in itself is horribly unattractive. I have a friend who has been down on herself since we met at aged seven. She's still constantly putting herself down and I love her to bits but it find it really tiresome and attention seeking. Get some counselling or a grip. You're not ugly, no one is, but your thoughts may well be making you unattractive.

pippinleaf she is attractive, her favourite man (I guess) asked her out!

Yeah, you're right, pippin. No one in real life knows I feel like this. You could know me, and you wouldn't know. But you're right. It is really unattractive. Sorry

Folkgirl, in response to your response to my post...I think you missed my point! I'm telling you that I would probably fancy you more. My "ideal" (give or take) is an average height woman with a big ish bust and a soft belly. Conveniently for me that encompasses way more women than the "beach body" ideal. More for me!

I'm afraid it's not for you to convince me who I would or wouldn't find attractive. My taste is valid, and common. There are lots of us! The people who are trying to convince you that you need to conform to the shape you talk of have a vested interest. They're not neutrally advertising what everyone else is thinking. They're pushing an impossible ideal to make us feel shit about ourselves and buy their products, go to their gyms, consume to escape our anxiety.

I agree with others in that exercise or general activity can improve self esteem (I always feel better after exercise) but not as a "body fix" more as a "I've accomplished something, fuck you negative body image" + happy hormones, thing.
Doing altruistic stuff now and again (ish)- volunteering etc I also find helps. It doesn't address body hang ups but it can help you give the two fingers to caring about the superficial stuff.

FWIW as a teen (and basically until a year ago) I purged, problematic substance use, self harmed (as a mechanism to punish myself for eating), over exercised and was generally miserable about my appearance. Whether I was "overweight" or "underweight". I know that's less of a history than you (I'm 24) but I just wanted to be transparent about it so I'm not someone who's always been fortunate enough to accept themselves, as some have.

I wish these postive messages were easier to transmit. I got a lot of them from becoming more involved in the feminist "scene"/groups (and studying feminist literature). That and taking up a "healthy lifestyle".

Folkgirl, i started reading through your post. It made me so sad, but I also recognised exactly what you are saying. But i had a look at the username then and realised it was you. I was shocked. I read your posts on the boards here and find them always insightful, eloquent and any other words you want to put in there for a woman who can express herself in a lovely confident manner. So I was amazed it was you who wrote this post.
I do get where you are coming from. I had one relationship in my past where I was a slender size 10. But over time i grew to a 16. Now I always dressed well and made the most of myself but on the inside I hated the extra weight. But I never let on. To the outside i was still confident. But one night my boyfriend and I were out and I said to him, casually, jez i shouldn't have worn this dress I just saw myself in the mirror and I look pregnant. Now it was more of a comment to look for a compliment from him. In an odd way. But he said yes you actually do. I remember it hit me. There it was out in the open. I looked awful and if i thought it, he thought it , surely others must have to. AFter that I just wallowed. I almost stubbornly wanted to stay the way I was to prove to myself that he still loved me for who I was on the inside. But he didn't. slowly and i'm not sure if it was the confidence in myself that let me down, but he got less interested. eventually i called it a day because i never wanted him to end it and hear the words. I don't fancy you anymore. So i got in there first. did it help? no infact it just made me feel worse. I vowed to slim and i did. but in that time i met some lovely men who liked me for me. there were nice but no chemistry. i didn't tell them my full time occupation was dieting and focussing on my body image. But they saw this me that was strong and confident. That's the path i was on. Fullfilment and i wanted to be seen by men as this. I didn't want to settle for a men who just liked me for me. i wanted to be seen as attractive, funny and the whole package.
So i got back to my size 10. Boy was i happy. but time had gone by. my wrinkles were now peeping out. my hair was starting to show signs of grey and no hairdresser with all the hightlights could mask them entirely.
I thought crap. in one door and out the other. I was snookered.
but along came a guy who thought i was the beesknees. I made sure i was perfect looking everytime i was with him. i oozed confidence and sexiness. Well he thought so. he would tell me so often. hellooo sexy. course i didn't believe it. he had told me of the women he had been with. described and I kept saying keep the act up, it's the fun we have that chemistry and it wil work. it kept him interested and wanting me. he'd look at the odd woman, comment,which i hated, but he would smile at me and say aren't i lucky to have bagged such a cracker.
but it couldn't last. my insecurities kept rearing their ugly heads. everything you have said. I pushed him so far away by dropping the act of the confident woman and the insecurities would pop out in the form of i'm not good enough, physically. he kept saying he didn't want fakeness, just be me. but i couldn't keep it up. i wanted to be able to be the woman that lounged around in her sweatpants,hair tied up and eyes that looked half the size they usually were without mascara. I couldn't do it. I just felt he'd go holy crap is that what you normally look like.
so i pushed some more for reassurance when i needed it. eventually he couldn't take it anymore. I cried so much over that man, because i knew he loved me for me. I never gave him the chance to prove it and assumed he'd dislike the me unveiled.
Did i learn. no not really. i'm still strong, confident. but i have put on 2 stone and i'm not happy. others say i'm attractive and sexy blah blah. 3 weeks ago I put on an all in one job under a dress and i was amazed i felt good. some people don't understand that and think it's a bit ludicrous how it can effect you. but it does and worse it makes your mind go a bit odd. so odd in fact it's irrational. But it is rational and effects so much of your life.
I will admit with my current partner/ex as of tonite, i did have issues. i hid them again, but it undermines my confidence in myself. tonite I have made the decision if the 2 stone effects me this much and i believe it makes me feel so ugly then i will do something about it. i have to. i can't have relationships where i feel undermined or feel i don't deserve better. i do. i have tons of other qualities that are great.
as far as wrinkles and natural features well that's life. i was born the way i was, i cant change them. they are me. the next man will see me for me. i'm sure of that, i will be happy and if he doesn't like me as me then screw him. He aint worth it.
so after all this waffle. i totally understand where you are coming from. I think you have amazing qualities that i'm sure you know. this man has seen them. wouldn't it be an awful shame to not have someone tell you that you are great. he sees the real you, your smile, intelligence, eyes and femininity and wants it. he wouldn't say it if he wasn't attracted to the 'package'. the package is all of you. i'm sorry i rambled there. jez i think i was offloading!!